HELLDIVERS™ 2

HELLDIVERS™ 2

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Niiyos Mar 21, 2024 @ 2:28am
the "don't add lgbt in game" meme is ridiculous. Do you not know what a democracy is?
The same 1# upvote guy in every patch note is he famous or what?
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Showing 16-30 of 40 comments
Metalshock Mar 21, 2024 @ 3:36am 
Originally posted by VoodooMike:
Super Earth being a democracy is irony - it is "managed" democracy, and the implication is that it is actually an authoritarian dictatorship. If you want the closest example from the real world you can look at Russia which is itself something of a managed democracy. There are elections, but they are mostly kabuki, and it is unhealthy to campaign against the incumbent.

While the game is pure fiction, and they can really do anything they want with it, realistically a culture like the one portrayed with Super Earth, or of Starship Troopers, or Warhammer 40k, would have little tolerance of any sort of counter-culture, and it would strongly discourage heterogenous behaviour and identity - in the case of Super Earth, likely through violent oppression.

Authoritarian cultures (that we've seen on regular Earth) thrive on homogeneity and promote the concepts of correct thought and correct lifestyle. Obviously that doesn't mean that homosexuality doesn't exist in such cultures, just that they generally don't acknowledge it and often lump it in with all other ways people can stand out as "deviant", and something to suppress and discourage on a cultural level.

Given that Helldivers 2 is meant to be funny in its treatment of its dystopian future I think its best they don't overtly specify much about Super Earth's treatment of its citizens in situations that are in any way controversial in the actual world - its best left to the players to imagine it any way they want, inventing their own head canon that makes them happy.


This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this, but let me take it a bit further.

Super Earth thrives on one thing: War, and all the processes associated with war. This means the thing Super Earth needs most is bodies.

New bodies are produced via reproduction. Thing about pretty much any relationship that isn't strictly a born male and a born female... having kids is a lot harder, requiring scientific intervention to achieve. These things are costly, and in all likelihood Super Earth would not back these forms of Scientific progress when they could be funding the research of more ingenious ways to commit intergalactic war crimes.

So, as a Totalitarian government insisting on managing every aspect of it's citizen's lives, why would they allow you to make a choice that would not either A: make you another body to feed to the war machine, or B: Make children to feed to the war machine?

Just my thoughts. And just a reminder, before any accusations, I am a bisexual male who plays this game a lot with my boyfriend. I get inclusiveness, but I'd rather have a story that isn't willing to compromise on making fun of the bad things some governments would love to do.
Originally posted by Niiyos:
The same 1# upvote guy in every patch note is he famous or what?
super earth wouldnt have made it this far if it had gays and trans in it
Ximmen Mar 21, 2024 @ 3:41am 
Don't worry. The success of this game allows Arrowhead Studios to ignore these people. This applies even more so because them keeping politics out of the game is partially why it's so successful.
VoodooMike Mar 21, 2024 @ 3:52am 
Originally posted by Metalshock:
Super Earth thrives on one thing: War, and all the processes associated with war. This means the thing Super Earth needs most is bodies.

New bodies are produced via reproduction. Thing about pretty much any relationship that isn't strictly a born male and a born female... having kids is a lot harder, requiring scientific intervention to achieve. These things are costly, and in all likelihood Super Earth would not back these forms of Scientific progress when they could be funding the research of more ingenious ways to commit intergalactic war crimes.

That's certainly part of the thought behind tenets against homosexuality in things like abrahamic religions, but pragmatically a preference for one's own sex doesn't prevent people from having children and plenty of gay men and women have had plenty of children over the centuries, generally as part of "keeping up appearances".

There are always some people who will object to other people having "wrong thoughts" but the societies as a whole don't much care what you feel they care how you act, and even then mostly where they will see it. That still has the effect of making people keep up appearances, and in doing so, going through all the same motions as everyone else.

In a high tech, high population society its not very difficult to produce fodder for wars - people are very prone to making more people if you give them the chance to do so (or look away for two seconds), and any society that wants more children can get itself a population boom by simply incentivizing family. The tricky part is when you want people to STOP mass producing more people to avoid overpopulation - that's when you'd want to spread managed democracy to worlds across the galaxy.

Originally posted by Metalshock:
Just my thoughts. And just a reminder, before any accusations, I am a bisexual male who plays this game a lot with my boyfriend.

You really shouldn't have to qualify your statements - once upon a time adults were able to discuss concepts and ideas without burning each other at the stake.
Alex Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:02am 
Originally posted by Ximmen:
Don't worry. The success of this game allows Arrowhead Studios to ignore these people. This applies even more so because them keeping politics out of the game is partially why it's so successful.

No. The success of the game is why these activists come here making all kinds of threads trying to get their flag planted.
What would allow Arrowhead to ignore these people is the community doing the same. If we start making fun of them, they cry abuse then go to their allies, the gaming journalist sites and write hit pieces against the devs using the community. They already did this once with Polygon.
Metalshock Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:06am 
Originally posted by VoodooMike:
Originally posted by Metalshock:
Super Earth thrives on one thing: War, and all the processes associated with war. This means the thing Super Earth needs most is bodies.

New bodies are produced via reproduction. Thing about pretty much any relationship that isn't strictly a born male and a born female... having kids is a lot harder, requiring scientific intervention to achieve. These things are costly, and in all likelihood Super Earth would not back these forms of Scientific progress when they could be funding the research of more ingenious ways to commit intergalactic war crimes.

That's certainly part of the thought behind tenets against homosexuality in things like abrahamic religions, but pragmatically a preference for one's own sex doesn't prevent people from having children and plenty of gay men and women have had plenty of children over the centuries, generally as part of "keeping up appearances".

There are always some people who will object to other people having "wrong thoughts" but the societies as a whole don't much care what you feel they care how you act, and even then mostly where they will see it. That still has the effect of making people keep up appearances, and in doing so, going through all the same motions as everyone else.

In a high tech, high population society its not very difficult to produce fodder for wars - people are very prone to making more people if you give them the chance to do so (or look away for two seconds), and any society that wants more children can get itself a population boom by simply incentivizing family. The tricky part is when you want people to STOP mass producing more people to avoid overpopulation - that's when you'd want to spread managed democracy to worlds across the galaxy.

Originally posted by Metalshock:
Just my thoughts. And just a reminder, before any accusations, I am a bisexual male who plays this game a lot with my boyfriend.

You really shouldn't have to qualify your statements - once upon a time adults were able to discuss concepts and ideas without burning each other at the stake.

Most of the gay men and women who had children, especially in the old days, did so because there was a serious threat to them if they came out, either socially, or to their actual life.

The thing about wrong thoughts... is that is very much a point ground into the setting. Think that maybe this new weapon is too inhumane to be used on bugs? Executed for treason. Wonder aloud if Super Earth really needs to populate every plausible planet you come across? Executed for treason. Think it's unfair the democracy officer aboard your helldiver's vessel gets a personal sauna? Executed for treason. You can't argue "Oh people just complain about others beliefs being wrong but they should be ignored" when a major part of the setting points out that "Thought crimes" is one of the highest forms of treason you can commit.

I can't argue on the overpopulation thing, because Super Earth's state on that is very much in a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Scenario. Super Earth has been in this state for so long, in setting, that nobody knows if they went to endless war to curb over population, or if they started mass forced repopulating because they decided that war would be their culture. We can't say for certain either way.


And no. I really shouldn't have to qualify my statements. But we live on the internet, and I'm absolutely certain somebody reading this assumes I'm some hyper Neo-Nazi bigot racist sexist fascist "Ist"-ist for even breathing in the general direction of "Maybe we should tone it down. So I feel the need to remind those who actually read that I'm not coming from a position of angry conservative ranting, but of a human being who feels like this sort of setting has a point that shouldn't be diluted by other agendas.
Last edited by Metalshock; Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:07am
Netaris Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:09am 
No politics in games. I had seen enough hasbeen activists trying to capitalize on other's success.
Piss off with your politics in games.

What you do and believe to be in your fantasy is your privacy and no one business so keep it that way. Asking for special privileges and representation over all other humans is everything but equality.
Narcissistic.
Leva (She/her) Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:21am 
Well... We have on threads and announcements comments:

Add LGBT
Don't add LGBT

You can simple ignore and play the game. We all know they are farming Points for the Steam seasonal badge
Last edited by Leva (She/her); Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:22am
C4NNED Mar 21, 2024 @ 4:22am 
Originally posted by Ximmen:
Don't worry. The success of this game allows Arrowhead Studios to ignore these people. This applies even more so because them keeping politics out of the game is partially why it's so successful.

Its hilarious how it took only a huge pile of corpses "dead brands" for like one developer studio to turn around and be like yeah lets not do that. LOL. But this could also just be because Arrowhead dont got FED money to just get woke on.
VoodooMike Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:12am 
Originally posted by Metalshock:
Most of the gay men and women who had children, especially in the old days, did so because there was a serious threat to them if they came out, either socially, or to their actual life.

Absolutely - they were keeping up appearances due to societal pressures. The point is that actually being gay did not stop them from reproducing, and if the concern is that the society wants everyone to reproduce, the simple pressure to conform does the trick just as it did for centuries across many cultures.

Authoritarian cultures don't just pressure gay people to conform - they pressure everyone to conform. They're opposed to deviancy of any sort, and certainly don't stop at sexual inclinations. The ultimate point of it is that keeping people in line is much tougher if you allow them to do what they want and be who they want to be - it's much easier if there is a single "way" and everyone adheres to it. This is alluded to in the game with all the notices that people should report other people's deviant actions and words to "loyalty officers".

Originally posted by Metalshock:
The thing about wrong thoughts... is that is very much a point ground into the setting. Think that maybe this new weapon is too inhumane to be used on bugs? Executed for treason. Wonder aloud if Super Earth really needs to populate every plausible planet you come across? Executed for treason. Think it's unfair the democracy officer aboard your helldiver's vessel gets a personal sauna? Executed for treason. You can't argue "Oh people just complain about others beliefs being wrong but they should be ignored" when a major part of the setting points out that "Thought crimes" is one of the highest forms of treason you can commit.

Ultimately what we're talking about is theoretical vs pragmatic concepts. Yes, ostensibly they want you to think a certain way but pragmatically we can't read people's thoughts, so what they actually care about is their behaviours. On a practical level society has an "out of sight, out of mind" mentality because there is so much going on that its tough to even care about what you see much less what is happening in the hearts and minds of people that you cannot experience.

On every side of any issue there are almost always both dumb people and smart people. It's the dumb ones that seriously focus on the principles while the smart ones focus on the pragmatics. It might sound counterintuitive, but if you take a look at any issue you'll see it.
Netaris Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:19am 
Originally posted by VoodooMike:
Ultimately what we're talking about is theoretical vs pragmatic concepts.

No, what we talk about is "everything is political" vs "I don't care, I just want to play, get the f*** out !" concepts. :)
Niiyos Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:30am 
In helldivers 1 I always assumed that replacement send after "the accident happens " is a clone of you! I can't imagine that a super earth that can colonise star systems can't make clones. Also, that is the same from starwars "black armoured" soldiers - are they not just called "clones"? let's say clone is identifying as the original or something else. Would still be a soldier first!
Last edited by Niiyos; Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:32am
VoodooMike Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:42am 
Originally posted by Netaris:
No, what we talk about is "everything is political" vs "I don't care, I just want to play, get the f*** out !" concepts. :)

That would be more convincing if you were playing rather than feeling the need to post about how much you don't care about the topic and just want to play. I suspect your real focus is on wanting to tell people to "get the f*** out" without seeming like a misanthrope.

Originally posted by Niiyos:
In helldivers 1 I always assumed that replacement send after "the accident happens " is a clone of you! I can't imagine that a super earth that can colonise star systems can't make clones. Also, that is the same from starwars "black armoured" soldiers - are they not just called "clones"? let's say clone is identifying as the original or something else. Would still be a soldier first!

That's the RPG "Paranoia", which has a similar schtick to it - a dystopian future where everyone is always watching for treasonous behaviour in those around them and are encouraged to execute traitors. Death is so frequent that every player has 6 clones, and when a player dies a new one is air-dropped in to pick up where the last one left off.

It'd be fun if they went that route with HD2, but I think they're going for the "human life is cheap" angle like Starship Troopers.
It's already in the game last I checked. The current set up represents everyone, including the LGBT group. So adding in another one is unnecessary.

Ultimately though it's the Dev's decision is all that matters. Their game, so they can pick and choose what they want in it. If they want it, that's fine. If they don't want it, that's also fine.

Coming in and telling them they have to include it is a you problem, not theirs. You want that, you make your own game and put it in, but you do not tell them what they can and cannot do with their own game.
Last edited by Kitt 🌟 Stargazer; Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:46am
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Date Posted: Mar 21, 2024 @ 2:28am
Posts: 40