Patrol spawns after patch?

[Poncho]

Is it just me or are the patrol spawns after the patch even more broken than before?

[Sharindel]

Yes, you are correct.
- Spawnrate is 2-3 times higher as before.
- Charger Spawnrate is 2-3 times higher as before.
- Yes they spawn not so often inside your helldiver, but mostly 2-3 times arround you.
- You can fight endlessly if you do not run away at some point.
- Also they now spawn way more often in the back of the view and engage.

For me this is not very fun to play. Its even more as the last time they overtuned the spawnrate. Your best option is, light armor, shieldpack and run run run. Fighting is the worst option now.

Don't know why they do not build in a "population level" in every zone, that get reduced of you do nest. So you have to kill the nests first, because the spawnrate of the prime target is so high, that you must clear the map. That also would end the option of "kite and run".

It would even make more sense, because no nest! Also the mission timer is not an "end" it is the "enemy found you" and you get spawn rates to the max. Like a raid boss who get on overdrive.

[Poncho]

yea, it feels like as soon as a fight starts, you are surrounded by enemys in like 20 seconds.

[retroquark]

Not sure if they ever were "broken". But the distance parameters to the team or the player when playing solo can be out of sync sometimes. And it's really just connected to the way the updates for the game-world runs.

For example: if it is the case (which is what it looks like) that the patrol spawns come in at the edge of some specific distance from the player (with possibly some exception when you're in a nest/in a mist, etc.) - this then probably relies on a variable determined by some slice of distance between two players, and then multiplied by the number of players.

So if that second player is not syncing properly, they might be able to run fairly far into an area where the enemy might spawn, and then get a patrol spawn very close, when that spawn was meant to appear at the edge of the view-distance.

Basically almost all the "instantly killed by hunter", "instantly killed by spitter", stuff like that - it's always going to be dependent on these kinds of sync issues. Can't hit the weak spot? Are physically incapable of hitting the head with the rifles? -- but then suddenly you're clearing difficulty 4-5 solo without much trouble? This is why. Same thing with nerfed weapons - were they too weak before they were increased in damage ahead of launch? Probably not. Are missiles and things like that too weak? Not really. Are the main weapons too weak? Probably. But it's because of hit-detection issues.

And that's not going to be fixed. Because there will never be restrictions on matching.

Although the problem is that they will still try to fix it, and that is going to ruin the game in the process. It's just a question of how many patches it will take.

Example of another of these "unresolved issues" from the patch notes:

"Stratagem beam might attach itself to an enemy but it will deploy to its original location."

But this actually works just fine -- ....given that the server updates are current, within reason. But if they're not, then the object is going to "bounce", or just not be updated between the time it takes before the strike is called. There's a position sync issue there, and it 100% relies on what kind of connection, upload, consistency and of course location of the host frigate has. The host also of course will have better luck than the guests (who have advantages in other ways, such as never being targeted/having mobs turn around when firing, and things like that, making shooting much easier if you're aware of how it works).

These sync issues will never be fixed. But there's a very good chance that Sony will pester Arrowhead to keep changing variables until they believe it's addressed.

And at a point that's going to reduce the player base to a point where most randoms will end up playing with lag. And this is when the game will end up with only the dedicated squads playing it. If people played BF3 and BF4, it had a very similar life. People are still playing these games, because they're actually really good. But playing it with open matching is just completely pointless. Because it changes the way the game is played way too much.

So consider that the next time you're getting a weird spawn. That the game is not "broken", and so needs incremental changes to the spawn radius (which is what Arrowhead/Sony are doing here).

It needs matching restrictions and consistency checks.

[Tenebris]

I wish it was actually viable to have a teammate as an overwatch role, run a precision rifle (which also need more tuning/buffs, but that's a whole 'nother discussion) and a Railgun/AMR/Spear.

But it's not, if you try, a patrol will just spawn behind you and annihilate you

[Rutger Howitzer]

a couple weeks ago i noticed stuff spawning in right next to me, and all the people i mentioned it to said "i've never seen that, must be something with your computer" like it was a rendering issue.

well, it wasn't. I consider stuff "spawning" in like that to be the game cheating (in the EA racing game bot "cheating" sense)

[Tenebris]

Originally posted by Rutger Howitzer:

a couple weeks ago i noticed stuff spawning in right next to me, and all the people i mentioned it to said "i've never seen that, must be something with your computer" like it was a rendering issue.

well, it wasn't. I consider stuff "spawning" in like that to be the game cheating (in the EA racing game bot "cheating" sense)

The reason it happens is because the team is separated, and for whatever asinine reason, spawns don't have a minimum distance for OTHER players. That patrol spawned for another player 100m away, and just so happened to be right on top of you.

[retroquark]

Originally posted by Tenebris:

The reason it happens is because the team is separated, and for whatever asinine reason, spawns don't have a minimum distance for OTHER players. That patrol spawned for another player 100m away, and just so happened to be right on top of you.

No, it definitely does consider other players as well as the host. It's technically possible to be far away enough from the second player that spawns will come in between you.

But if the game updates normally, and you're within 50-100 meters or so of your teammates, there's no patrol spawning happening between the two groups.

[Pinhead Larry]

Originally posted by retroquark:

Not sure if they ever were "broken". But the distance parameters to the team or the player when playing solo can be out of sync sometimes. And it's really just connected to the way the updates for the game-world runs.

For example: if it is the case (which is what it looks like) that the patrol spawns come in at the edge of some specific distance from the player (with possibly some exception when you're in a nest/in a mist, etc.) - this then probably relies on a variable determined by some slice of distance between two players, and then multiplied by the number of players.

So if that second player is not syncing properly, they might be able to run fairly far into an area where the enemy might spawn, and then get a patrol spawn very close, when that spawn was meant to appear at the edge of the view-distance.

Basically almost all the "instantly killed by hunter", "instantly killed by spitter", stuff like that - it's always going to be dependent on these kinds of sync issues. Can't hit the weak spot? Are physically incapable of hitting the head with the rifles? -- but then suddenly you're clearing difficulty 4-5 solo without much trouble? This is why. Same thing with nerfed weapons - were they too weak before they were increased in damage ahead of launch? Probably not. Are missiles and things like that too weak? Not really. Are the main weapons too weak? Probably. But it's because of hit-detection issues.

And that's not going to be fixed. Because there will never be restrictions on matching.

Although the problem is that they will still try to fix it, and that is going to ruin the game in the process. It's just a question of how many patches it will take.

Example of another of these "unresolved issues" from the patch notes:

"Stratagem beam might attach itself to an enemy but it will deploy to its original location."

But this actually works just fine -- ....given that the server updates are current, within reason. But if they're not, then the object is going to "bounce", or just not be updated between the time it takes before the strike is called. There's a position sync issue there, and it 100% relies on what kind of connection, upload, consistency and of course location of the host frigate has. The host also of course will have better luck than the guests (who have advantages in other ways, such as never being targeted/having mobs turn around when firing, and things like that, making shooting much easier if you're aware of how it works).

These sync issues will never be fixed. But there's a very good chance that Sony will pester Arrowhead to keep changing variables until they believe it's addressed.

And at a point that's going to reduce the player base to a point where most randoms will end up playing with lag. And this is when the game will end up with only the dedicated squads playing it. If people played BF3 and BF4, it had a very similar life. People are still playing these games, because they're actually really good. But playing it with open matching is just completely pointless. Because it changes the way the game is played way too much.

So consider that the next time you're getting a weird spawn. That the game is not "broken", and so needs incremental changes to the spawn radius (which is what Arrowhead/Sony are doing here).

It needs matching restrictions and consistency checks.

I mean, the obvious solution is obvious: Patrols can ONLY spawn beyond the edge of the map and then they path in through it/across it, and/or the more logical fix would be that patrols are spawned directly from bug holes and bot factories (Which would also give players an actual reason to blow those up since it would make life EASIER instead of HARDER like it does now with the increase in patrol spawns corresponding to how many spawners have been destroyed)

[kineath]

Maybe Joel is screwing with us :D

[Warlok]

Originally posted by Syzygy:

I mean, the obvious solution is obvious: Patrols can ONLY spawn beyond the edge of the map and then they path in through it/across it, and/or the more logical fix would be that patrols are spawned directly from bug holes and bot factories (Which would also give players an actual reason to blow those up since it would make life EASIER instead of HARDER like it does now with the increase in patrol spawns corresponding to how many spawners have been destroyed)

Reasonable proposed adjustment.

[<⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️>]

does not feel that bad to be fair... but i'm also using the new booster nonstop so idk

[Chocbomb]

Originally posted by kineath:

Maybe Joel is screwing with us :D

I want to believe that if Joel had the chance.. he would have tested the Exo-Suit.
There is no way that shooting rockets from that thing was tested.

[retroquark]

Originally posted by Syzygy:

I mean, the obvious solution is obvious: Patrols can ONLY spawn beyond the edge of the map and then they path in through it/across it, and/or the more logical fix would be that patrols are spawned directly from bug holes and bot factories (Which would also give players an actual reason to blow those up since it would make life EASIER instead of HARDER like it does now with the increase in patrol spawns corresponding to how many spawners have been destroyed)

Sure. But then there will be no tension, everything will be predictable, and it's just not going to be an issue when patrols are there. You will walk around the map clearing out the objectives, and you know you will never see a patrol coming in during a nest run. Dodging a patrol and risking hitting an objective is not a risk any more, and so on and so on.

And if you change that, you would also change the balance of everything else, probably upping the difficult severely for the placements and factories - which would make the game just tedious.

The design works just fine. What doesn't work is the variable, sometimes totally non-existent consistency checks towards the host. Disallowing that is what should be done.

And simply destroying the game by thousand cuts patching and "good suggestions" by people who have never designed a game, and who apparently want to play the most boring game in the universe, is just not a good alternative to that. It's better to just leave it, so that the game is at least not entirely broken when playing with friends, or solo.

[Redeyeflight]

Originally posted by Syzygy:

Originally posted by retroquark:

Not sure if they ever were "broken". But the distance parameters to the team or the player when playing solo can be out of sync sometimes. And it's really just connected to the way the updates for the game-world runs.

For example: if it is the case (which is what it looks like) that the patrol spawns come in at the edge of some specific distance from the player (with possibly some exception when you're in a nest/in a mist, etc.) - this then probably relies on a variable determined by some slice of distance between two players, and then multiplied by the number of players.

So if that second player is not syncing properly, they might be able to run fairly far into an area where the enemy might spawn, and then get a patrol spawn very close, when that spawn was meant to appear at the edge of the view-distance.

Basically almost all the "instantly killed by hunter", "instantly killed by spitter", stuff like that - it's always going to be dependent on these kinds of sync issues. Can't hit the weak spot? Are physically incapable of hitting the head with the rifles? -- but then suddenly you're clearing difficulty 4-5 solo without much trouble? This is why. Same thing with nerfed weapons - were they too weak before they were increased in damage ahead of launch? Probably not. Are missiles and things like that too weak? Not really. Are the main weapons too weak? Probably. But it's because of hit-detection issues.

And that's not going to be fixed. Because there will never be restrictions on matching.

Although the problem is that they will still try to fix it, and that is going to ruin the game in the process. It's just a question of how many patches it will take.

Example of another of these "unresolved issues" from the patch notes:

"Stratagem beam might attach itself to an enemy but it will deploy to its original location."

But this actually works just fine -- ....given that the server updates are current, within reason. But if they're not, then the object is going to "bounce", or just not be updated between the time it takes before the strike is called. There's a position sync issue there, and it 100% relies on what kind of connection, upload, consistency and of course location of the host frigate has. The host also of course will have better luck than the guests (who have advantages in other ways, such as never being targeted/having mobs turn around when firing, and things like that, making shooting much easier if you're aware of how it works).

These sync issues will never be fixed. But there's a very good chance that Sony will pester Arrowhead to keep changing variables until they believe it's addressed.

And at a point that's going to reduce the player base to a point where most randoms will end up playing with lag. And this is when the game will end up with only the dedicated squads playing it. If people played BF3 and BF4, it had a very similar life. People are still playing these games, because they're actually really good. But playing it with open matching is just completely pointless. Because it changes the way the game is played way too much.

So consider that the next time you're getting a weird spawn. That the game is not "broken", and so needs incremental changes to the spawn radius (which is what Arrowhead/Sony are doing here).

It needs matching restrictions and consistency checks.

I mean, the obvious solution is obvious: Patrols can ONLY spawn beyond the edge of the map and then they path in through it/across it, and/or the more logical fix would be that patrols are spawned directly from bug holes and bot factories (Which would also give players an actual reason to blow those up since it would make life EASIER instead of HARDER like it does now with the increase in patrol spawns corresponding to how many spawners have been destroyed)

***Disclaimer***
The following post devolves into what I can only describe as a slightly dramatized joke.
But only slightly.
***

Yes. This. And it will never happen. They will never wake up some day and say "You know what, I think destroying a barracks, ammunition depot, transportation system, or weapons factory might actually WEAKEN an enemy"!!

Here's another thing I don't get.
"Hey guys, lets make a game with factories that create robots, and bug holes that create bugs, that players can destroy!"

"Ya, that's a great idea, and lets make sure everything gets harder when they do it for nearly no reward so they serve no purpose at all"!!

"BRILLIANT!!"

"And lets put a bunch of guns in the game!!!"

"I love it!! We'll make sure that the only result from fighting with the guns is that the enemies will pile up, becoming too numerous to beat, so everyone will be forced to run around like idiots, and never use the guns if they want to win!!!"

"BRILLIANT!!"

"Hey you know what? Lets go stick our heads in the blender!!!"

"BRILLIANT!!!"

[Pinhead Larry]

Originally posted by retroquark:

Originally posted by Syzygy:

I mean, the obvious solution is obvious: Patrols can ONLY spawn beyond the edge of the map and then they path in through it/across it, and/or the more logical fix would be that patrols are spawned directly from bug holes and bot factories (Which would also give players an actual reason to blow those up since it would make life EASIER instead of HARDER like it does now with the increase in patrol spawns corresponding to how many spawners have been destroyed)

Sure. But then there will be no tension, everything will be predictable, and it's just not going to be an issue when patrols are there. You will walk around the map clearing out the objectives, and you know you will never see a patrol coming in during a nest run. Dodging a patrol and risking hitting an objective is not a risk any more, and so on and so on.

And if you change that, you would also change the balance of everything else, probably upping the difficult severely for the placements and factories - which would make the game just tedious.

The design works just fine. What doesn't work is the variable, sometimes totally non-existent consistency checks towards the host. Disallowing that is what should be done.

And simply destroying the game by thousand cuts patching and "good suggestions" by people who have never designed a game, and who apparently want to play the most boring game in the universe, is just not a good alternative to that. It's better to just leave it, so that the game is at least not entirely broken when playing with friends, or solo.

Not necessarily. If all bug holes/bot camps spawn patrols, then it's a race against time to either do the objectives, or clear camps to reduce the incoming patrols. Especially if patrols path towards players, things can definitely get just as crazy since you'll be clearing one camp only for patrols from other camps to zero in on you, call for reinforcements which brings in MORE bugs/bots, etc. et al.

It'd give the players a decision to make, whether they want to try speedrunning the objectives for their medals/samples at the cost of a harder time moving about the map and a harder time extracting, or spending more time on the map clearing everything to (Hopefully) ensure a smoother experience going forward.