Players with kicking tendencies should be banned

[Saint Jimmy]

The reward mechanism of this game is breeding ground for toxic trolls who kick people near the end of the mission. Kickers should be reported, and a player who often reported for kicking should be just banned.

Edit:
Now a youtuber has made a video about it. It's obviously a problem that needs to be addressed

[Sym]

Originally posted by Metalshock:

Fair points, and some of which should be fixed regardless of if they take the idea or not, but it's my take on it. That way, if you, say, get to extraction, ship arrives, then the host kicks you to troll you... it does nothing. because you get the reward anyway, with maybe a small penalty to EXP as only one helldiver extracted. Taking away the "satisfaction" of wasting someone's time would also prevent a lot of host abuse, because who would honestly kick someone at extraction if it did nothing?

trouble is, afaik the game is running on autodesk, so it's already a bit of a ducttape and string arrangement as it is...
...and as for the satisfaction of wasting somebody's time, that's not just on the host's end - nothing tanks your view of public-joins like the "I need samples so I'm going this way. nothing says I shouldn't have access to the entire reinforcement pool" people.

Even then, I've had the displeasure of having people that will just start, most of the way through a mission, damaging team mates, wasting ammo from weapons others have called, wasting the team supply call-in etc.... they get kicked for that, I don't care how far into the mission it is if they don't either.


That's the issue - anybody unhappy with how hosts react to them can, themselves, be the host - any host unhappy with how public joiners influence their mission can, in turn, remove those joiners.
With people already blocking those that kick them, the issue already has the tools required to sort itself out, in a way that won't damage the game in an untold number of other ways.

[12InchParadise]

The most frustrating feeling is joining a round and getting inta-kicked.

[Dakota~]

Originally posted by Sym:

Originally posted by Dakota~:

Yes the system needs to change,
Your agreeing that playing a mission from near start (joining within 1-4 mins of game starting) and being kicked at the end (which is usually 30-35 mins)
Should net you 0 income for all that wasted effort, nor any way of punitive action against the host.
I will never understand how that is even acceptable to anybody.

You're right, it's not ideal.
There are other things that aren't ideal, and less ideal in fact: even if there's no kicking going on, the entire squad can be DC'd from a mission and have no reconnect - time X squad size wasted, instead of just time wasted; there are people that are all too happy to go off on their own, unprepared for the encounters they will meet, before the main objectives and biggest threats to MO completion are dealt with.

There are even people joining games hosted by other people and demanding that they, the non-host, have say over how the host handles them, beyond the ToS of the game.

Ignore them as there is nothing they can do against you, if they start to troll or tk then kick them.

I've had people try to explain to me that no, they don't care if my friend DC'd and they filled the spot before the friend could reconnect, they're here /now/ so they're extracting, and they've meant it.

Then kick them for your friend to rejoin, kicking someone seconds after joining isnt ideal but its a valid reason. If they played for more then say 33% the mission and you do that then your the problem.

The current solution for people that have issues with others hosting missions is the simplest and most effective one the devs can possibly have: they are free to host their own missions and be subject to all the crashes involved with that, which currently massively outweigh the number of troll kicking incidents to such an extent that the servers themselves might actually be confusing people as to the source of their no longer being present in a mission.

For the mediate second yes its the only option for the devs as its what is in place, it isnt ever set in stone, nothing in games are. There needs some change weather that is just giving you credit/supplies for missions if kicked and displaying a symbol next to the player that hosted in the recently played with tab so you can only block them instead of everyone, that would be a decent step for now and probably will solve most of the issues as that is my two biggest with this.

Though, for the sake of argument, a potential 'solution' for that could be a walled-off section of matchmaking that dumps people into a no-host mission.
If nothing else, it would make for some very interesting threads once the results of those start coming in, and all while removing them from the hosted missions pool.

A different option would be if a hypothetical report function is put in those who are reported overtime match with others who are reported, not ideal and somthing id ever want in the game but its for a sake of argument. as it would punish 50%+ of the people in it would be decent players just troll reported.

[Nexus]

Originally posted by vanbushi:

Originally posted by |⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️|:

Host in DRG can kick anyone too but nobody does it you are the problem

That not accurate at all. There were tons of people complaining about kicks in DRG for literal years. Then they implemented the partial removal of host powers to kick after the objectives were completed.

I got 528 hours in drg and have only been kicked once at the end of a mission

[Sym]

Originally posted by 12InchParadise:

The most frustrating feeling is joining a round and getting inta-kicked.

Surely being immediately removed from the mission means you've lost what, a minute at most?
And that's if your ship-join and mission-load are slow, which will haunt you regardless of being kicked or not?

[Sym]

Originally posted by Dakota~:

A different option would be if a hypothetical report function is put in those who are reported overtime match with others who are reported, not ideal and somthing id ever want in the game but its for a sake of argument. as it would punish 50%+ of the people in it would be decent players just troll reported.

And that is the precise crux of the problem with the vast majority of proposed 'solutions' to the problem: they add one or more layers of further abuse that can be directed at people, without actually hitting the route problem, where the existing tools will already resolve it.

[Sym]

Originally posted by Nexus:

Originally posted by vanbushi:

That not accurate at all. There were tons of people complaining about kicks in DRG for literal years. Then they implemented the partial removal of host powers to kick after the objectives were completed.

I got 528 hours in drg and have only been kicked once at the end of a mission

DRG had the benefit of having a smaller playerbase, so the in-world internalised hints at focusing on teamwork like "if you don't rock and stone, you don't come home" had more of an impact - shallower pool, bigger ripples when the rock is cast in.

[NiamhNyx]

One thing I have noticed is that I will usually get kicked by people my own level, but when I am paired with higher levels, they don't kick me.

[Dakota~]

Originally posted by Sym:

Originally posted by Dakota~:

A different option would be if a hypothetical report function is put in those who are reported overtime match with others who are reported, not ideal and somthing id ever want in the game but its for a sake of argument. as it would punish 50%+ of the people in it would be decent players just troll reported.

And that is the precise crux of the problem with the vast majority of proposed 'solutions' to the problem: they add one or more layers of further abuse that can be directed at people, without actually hitting the route problem, where the existing tools will already resolve it.

there are no existing fixes or tools, if everyone hosts their own game nobody will be able to join because everyone will already be hosting.
Easiest ways to duck tape the problem that is really is,
You get rewarded for the stuff you have done even if you dc/get kicked.
You miss out on end of match bonuses and other things but you atleast get something instead of nothing.
Secondly let you see who the host was in the previous game so you arent having to block 3 players two of which had nothing to do with the host.

[NiamhNyx]

Originally posted by Dakota~:

Originally posted by Sym:

And that is the precise crux of the problem with the vast majority of proposed 'solutions' to the problem: they add one or more layers of further abuse that can be directed at people, without actually hitting the route problem, where the existing tools will already resolve it.

there are no existing fixes or tools, if everyone hosts their own game nobody will be able to join because everyone will already be hosting.
Easiest ways to duck tape the problem that is really is,
You get rewarded for the stuff you have done even if you dc/get kicked.
You miss out on end of match bonuses and other things but you atleast get something instead of nothing.
Secondly let you see who the host was in the previous game so you arent having to block 3 players two of which had nothing to do with the host.

Getting rewarded for what you have done would be nice, id be higher than level 8 right now if it was not for the crashing.

[Dakota~]

Originally posted by NiamhNyx:

Originally posted by Dakota~:

there are no existing fixes or tools, if everyone hosts their own game nobody will be able to join because everyone will already be hosting.
Easiest ways to duck tape the problem that is really is,
You get rewarded for the stuff you have done even if you dc/get kicked.
You miss out on end of match bonuses and other things but you atleast get something instead of nothing.
Secondly let you see who the host was in the previous game so you arent having to block 3 players two of which had nothing to do with the host.

Getting rewarded for what you have done would be nice, id be higher than level 8 right now if it was not for the crashing.

id be a lvl or two higher honestly by now aswell. Stopped playing tonight because i lost connection 3 times in a row, plus kicked once because i was tired of playing alone or with one other instead of 4.

[Sym]

Originally posted by Dakota~:

there are no existing fixes or tools, if everyone hosts their own game nobody will be able to join because everyone will already be hosting.
Easiest ways to duck tape the problem that is really is,
You get rewarded for the stuff you have done even if you dc/get kicked.
You miss out on end of match bonuses and other things but you atleast get something instead of nothing.
Secondly let you see who the host was in the previous game so you arent having to block 3 players two of which had nothing to do with the host.

Except, the supposed 'toxic hosts' are getting blocked en-masse by the people getting kicked by them, so the existing tools are specifically reducing the problem, and if it's as widespread a problem as some claim, at an incredible rate too - the 'toxic hosts' would be rapidly exiling themselves from the general playerbase.

Similarly, people encountering 'toxic hosts' is currently at the point of being a statistical anomaly, so when the accordingly small number of people meeting that issue host their own games, the problem will again further be cut into - burning the candle at both ends, as it were.

The easiest way to duct-tape the situation does not involve giving rewards guaranteed despite being /kicked/ of all things, because that would encourage an aspect of player behaviour that gets people kicked - the candle will never burn out if people are specifically adding to it from the middle outwards.

The idea of letting people see who the host that kicked them would be a good idea though, but only if they were kicked of course, and only if such a system were infallible, so there were no server issues getting things mixed up.
In a game where, again, you're far more likely to be disconnected for no reason than kicked, let alone for no reason.

[Nexus]

Originally posted by Sym:

Originally posted by Nexus:

I got 528 hours in drg and have only been kicked once at the end of a mission

DRG had the benefit of having a smaller playerbase, so the in-world internalised hints at focusing on teamwork like "if you don't rock and stone, you don't come home" had more of an impact - shallower pool, bigger ripples when the rock is cast in.

There's a lot more to it then limited playerbase which believe me, drg may not be AAA game levels of players but it still has a good amount.

It's also the internalized commradery and how much it passively encourages teamwork where as this game doesn't encourage teamwork in such an organic way. It doesn't show helldivers as ride or die squadrons nor provide any real support options to encourage team play in a way that's useful and enjoyable to all. But that's a whole other debate

Point being, I haven't seen this much kicking in a game since payday 2 and that game was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nightmare to find public games for. But with both the difficulty the way it is in being crafted in a way that isn't fun so much as it can feel like straight up bs at times along with the weapons encouraging a specific meta that all players generally have to follow less youre either gonna get kicked or just not gonna have a fun time playing thus disencouraging playing how you want or just experimenting in general, makes for a community that can be pretty toxic.

But even then there's so many cogs and factors that go into making a community a way it will be that you could spend months picking apart the psychology and it's root causes on any given game. I'm just stating the causes I can think of off the top of my head.

[Dakota~]

Originally posted by Sym:

Originally posted by Dakota~:

there are no existing fixes or tools, if everyone hosts their own game nobody will be able to join because everyone will already be hosting.
Easiest ways to duck tape the problem that is really is,
You get rewarded for the stuff you have done even if you dc/get kicked.
You miss out on end of match bonuses and other things but you atleast get something instead of nothing.
Secondly let you see who the host was in the previous game so you arent having to block 3 players two of which had nothing to do with the host.

Except, the supposed 'toxic hosts' are getting blocked en-masse by the people getting kicked by them, so the existing tools are specifically reducing the problem, and if it's as widespread a problem as some claim, at an incredible rate too - the 'toxic hosts' would be rapidly exiling themselves from the general playerbase.

Similarly, people encountering 'toxic hosts' is currently at the point of being a statistical anomaly, so when the accordingly small number of people meeting that issue host their own games, the problem will again further be cut into - burning the candle at both ends, as it were.

The easiest way to duct-tape the situation does not involve giving rewards guaranteed despite being /kicked/ of all things, because that would encourage an aspect of player behaviour that gets people kicked - the candle will never burn out if people are specifically adding to it from the middle outwards.

The idea of letting people see who the host that kicked them would be a good idea though, but only if they were kicked of course, and only if such a system were infallible, so there were no server issues getting things mixed up.
In a game where, again, you're far more likely to be disconnected for no reason than kicked, let alone for no reason.

Yea no, you need to be rewarded for work done in the game. If you cant comprehend that i am just done talking here.

[Sym]

Originally posted by Dakota~:

Yea no, you need to be rewarded for work done in the game. If you cant comprehend that i am just done talking here.

if the basis of your argument isn't for moving the game /away/ from current and potential abuses, you never started to begin with, let alone be able to be done with anything.

If people are given the power to, far from being punished, actively be rewarded for going off and doing their own thing, regardless of the negative impact on the mission? That's going to increase the number of abuses massively, not decrease it.

A hamster being injured is a problem, and killing the hamster, while technically meaning the problem of them being injured is gone, doesn't /really/ help.