nProtect GameGuard: Official answer from Arrowhead's Technical Director

[lukaself]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/19dp2qw/helldivers_2_nprotect_gameguard_anticheat/

Hi everyone,

My name is Peter Lindgren and I'm the Technical Director of HELLDIVERS 2. I've been making games at Arrowhead since the Magicka-days and I've been involved in every game we've released to date.

I will do my best in this post to address the concerns and confusion that's come up recently regarding the choice of Anti-Cheat software in HELLDIVERS 2.

So, let's start off with the more urgent questions:

Is GameGuard a kernel-level / administrator-priviledge anti-cheat?

Yes, GameGuard is a "kernel-level", aka rootkit, anti-cheat. Most anti-cheat run at "kernel-level", especially all of the popular ones. It's unfortunately one of the more effective ways to combat cheating.

There are some anti-cheat that can run in "user-mode", but they are much less effective and tend to be cracked very quickly, resulting in widespread cheating.

Will GameGuard stay installed on my system after I've uninstalled HELLDIVERS 2?

No, GameGuard is removed at the same time as the game is uninstalled.

The installer and uninstaller for GameGuard is visibly included with the game in <install-dir>/tools/GGSetup.exe and <install-dir>/tools/gguninst.exe.

I'm worried about my privacy, will GameGuard collect sensitive information about me?

No, GameGuard does not collect any personally identifiable information (PII). And doing so would be a GDPR/ADPPA nightmare as well. I can speak from experience that we're all bending over backwards to be compliant with these regulations.

On a more technical note, GameGuard is scanning the running processes (applications) for malicious software and attempts to block such software from manipulating the game client.

Will GameGuard reduce the performance of my PC?

GameGuard is only active while the game is running and after thousands of hours of testing we’ve not noticed any noteworthy degradations of performance on our developer and QA workstations.

And the big one that needs plenty of context:

HELLDIVERS 2 is a co-op/PvE game, why do we even need Anti-Cheat?

That's a great question, and there's two related but separate points to it:

First, we want everyone to have a great time playing HELLDIVERS 2, with friends, ex-friends or randoms. What we've seen in some of our and others' games is that rampant cheating tends to have a very negative effect on players openness to playing, especially with randoms.

There's an anecdote from HELLDIVERS 1 I'd like to share:

When we released HELLDIVERS 1 on PC there was effectively no anti-cheat implemented. Additionally HELLDIVERS 1 uses a peer-to-peer networking model, and that means, from a security perspective, each game client will blindly trust each other.

Shortly after release we noticed there was a cheat going around which granted 9999 research samples. Unfortunately any non-cheaters in the same mission would also be granted 9999 research samples. These non-cheating players now had their entire progression ruined through no fault of their own.

We were able to deal with a lot of these early issues without using a third party solution, but it took a lot of work, and most of it was done reactively.

Incidentally HELLDIVERS 2 also uses a peer-to-peer networking model, but this time around we're trying to be more proactive and make sure everyone can play the intended experience.

Second is the Galactic War. There's this huge metagame going in the cloud which all players (and game clients) participate in. Even though we have other countermeasures in place, a cracked game client could make it easier to disrupt the Galactic War, which would sour everyone’s experience.

As a final note, on an open platform like PC it's not possible to stop cheating from ever happening. Someone with the skills, dedication and resources will ultimately succeed. The point of anti-cheat is to make it more difficult and time consuming to develop cheats.

Needless to say we will be keeping a very close eye for any issues that may be encountered at release.

See you on the battlefield ;)

-Peter

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

m99noble a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

Playing alone with no friends? sounds miserable and boring. Bye little guy!

♥♥♥♥ people. They are literally the cause of 99% of the worlds problems, carry diseases and they all die. You say alone, i say independent. You say no friends, I say crutches. You say miserable, I say contented. You say boring, I say more fun for me. Later!

You sound like an unhappy person and I hope you overcome whatever is going on in real life.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Alpharius a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

Playing alone with no friends? sounds miserable and boring. Bye little guy!

Sounds miserable and boring to need friends to play with in order to enjoy a game, in all honesty. Some people enjoy the tranquility of playing alone.

If you've played the first game, you'd know it's one of the best games to play with others :) I'll decline!

[TofGaming]

This game is gonna flop hard on PC.

[McDinglefart]

scatman a écrit :

Tox Flamer a écrit :

"I'm worried about my privacy, will GameGuard collect sensitive information about me?

No, GameGuard does not collect any personally identifiable information (PII)"
But it does collect some information on you or they'd outright tell you they don't
Just because they can't tie it to you doesn't mean they aren't collecting your ♥♥♥♥

You better stop using iPhones, YouTube, Gmail, Google Chrome, Facebook, Steam and Twitter then. They all collect your data.

You do realize that rootkit antiviruses record all memory, your key inputs, everything. And they can reinstall themselves if deleted and use any app you got there without your permission?

That means whoever is on the end of this GameGuard, has access to everything on your computer - past (cache memory) and present. All your stored accounts/logins, your typed passwords. Everything is read by these anticheat rootkit softwares.

https://www.kaspersky.com/resource-center/definitions/what-is-rootkit

Some rabid dev on e sports legue used anticheat to inject 500.000 players PC with Bitcoin miner a couple years ago.

https://kotaku.com/e-sports-league-hit-with-lawsuit-over-bitcoin-mining-sc-692954889

It can even be some 3rd party finding some bug in anticheat driver gaining full control over your PC like in some instance when people were controlling users PCs via some popular stream-call app due to same rootkit issue.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Kakas69 a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

You better stop using iPhones, YouTube, Gmail, Google Chrome, Facebook, Steam and Twitter then. They all collect your data.

You do realize that rootkit antiviruses record all memory, your key inputs, everything. And they can reinstall themselves if deleted and use any app you got there without your permission?

That means whoever is on the end of this GameGuard, has access to everything on your computer - past (cache memory) and present. All your stored accounts/logins, your typed passwords. Everything is read by these anticheat rootkit softwares.

https://www.kaspersky.com/resource-center/definitions/what-is-rootkit

Some rabid dev on e sports legue used anticheat to inject 500.000 players PC with Bitcoin miner a couple years ago.

https://kotaku.com/e-sports-league-hit-with-lawsuit-over-bitcoin-mining-sc-692954889

It can even be some 3rd party finding some bug in anticheat driver gaining full control over your PC like in some instance when people were controlling users PCs via some popular stream-call app due to same rootkit issue.

I'm very much aware. That's kind of the point.
You seem to be under the impression that they're reading your personal files, though. As far as I'm aware that doesn't happen.
They use databases of known signatures for cheats they've already detected and check for applications reading and writing to memory. They don't care about a Google Chrome tab with Facebook on it. They care about unsigned .dll's being injected, suspicious drivers being loaded, memory being rewritten, functions being called, and external/connected devices modifying the game/anticheat itself. If it detects a new cheat, it generates a new signature for it, and now it's detected.

Valorants anticheat also does the same. EAC also does the same. Your point?

Vanguard (Riots anticheat) is much worse than GameGuard. It runs 24/7, with no way to turn it off unless you completely uninstall the riot services, and is owned by Tencent. A Chinese company which owns a LOT of IP.

Please do send me a link though of GameGuard stealing my credit card info and leaking all my passwords. I can't seem to recall that happening?

I know about ESEA. I was playing on that league when it happened. ESEA died because of it and barely anyone uses it anymore. Does GameGuard have a BTC miner in it? I can't seem to recall that happening either.

You do realise that crappy anticheats like VAC don't work right?

If you genuinely cared about internet privacy, you'd uninstall every popular multiplayer game you have. They all use invasive anticheats.

Unless you want games with no anticheats, cheaters in every game, your time wasted, experience ruined, and have multiplayer games destroyed completely?

edit: They don't 'reinstall' themselves. They prevent it being closed. It's called 'heartbeat'.

[McDinglefart]

scatman a écrit :

Kakas69 a écrit :

You do realize that rootkit antiviruses record all memory, your key inputs, everything. And they can reinstall themselves if deleted and use any app you got there without your permission?

That means whoever is on the end of this GameGuard, has access to everything on your computer - past (cache memory) and present. All your stored accounts/logins, your typed passwords. Everything is read by these anticheat rootkit softwares.

https://www.kaspersky.com/resource-center/definitions/what-is-rootkit

Some rabid dev on e sports legue used anticheat to inject 500.000 players PC with Bitcoin miner a couple years ago.

https://kotaku.com/e-sports-league-hit-with-lawsuit-over-bitcoin-mining-sc-692954889

It can even be some 3rd party finding some bug in anticheat driver gaining full control over your PC like in some instance when people were controlling users PCs via some popular stream-call app due to same rootkit issue.

Valorants anticheat also does the same. EAC also does the same. Your point?

I never installed these types of malwares on my PC, so your argument is null.

Just because some other company also injecting people's private computers with these type of malwares just to sell a game, it does not make things better.

It shouldn't be allowed or accepted.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Kakas69 a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

Valorants anticheat also does the same. EAC also does the same. Your point?

I never installed these types of malwares on my PC, so your argument is null.

If you've played any multiplayer triple A game, or even ones which became immensely popular (apex, pubg, arma, destiny, rust, etc) which has released in the past 10 years, you have used one of these anticheats lol. Which is everyone who owns a gaming PC.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Kakas69 a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

Valorants anticheat also does the same. EAC also does the same. Your point?

I never installed these types of malwares on my PC, so your argument is null.

Just because some other company also injecting people's private computers with these type of malwares just to sell a game, it does not make things better.

It shouldn't be allowed or accepted.

Kinda weird to lie on the internet, man. I can still see games you've played. Darktide used EAC. You had it installed haha.

I see you play BDO too. That uses a kernel anticheat. XIGNCODE3. Seems like my argument isn't null anymore. You should uninstall that man. Better stop playing forever.

[McDinglefart]

scatman a écrit :

Kakas69 a écrit :

I never installed these types of malwares on my PC, so your argument is null.

If you've played any multiplayer triple A game, or even ones which became immensely popular (apex, pubg, arma, destiny, rust, etc) which has released in the past 10 years, you have used one of these anticheats lol. Which is everyone who owns a gaming PC.

I haven't and I would never play a game injecting malware. Speaking of that, how well these malwares are useful against cheating tho?

I know Rust is filled with cheaters, so what's the point?

You also mentioned pvp games, meanwhile I play PvE games, have around 400 hours in darktide and deep rock galactic.

Encountered cheating only once. Prevention? Blocking steam account and moving on.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Kakas69 a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

If you've played any multiplayer triple A game, or even ones which became immensely popular (apex, pubg, arma, destiny, rust, etc) which has released in the past 10 years, you have used one of these anticheats lol. Which is everyone who owns a gaming PC.

I haven't and I would never play a game injecting malware. Speaking of that, how well these malwares are useful against cheating tho?

I know Rust is filled with cheaters, so what's the point?

You also mentioned pvp games, meanwhile I play PvE games, have around 400 hours in darktide and deep rock galactic.

Encountered cheating only once. Prevention? Blocking steam account and moving on.

You have :) Don't play dumb

Rust cheaters get banned within 1 day. They use suicide accounts. Internals are pretty much unsafe completely.

Cheaters who use external recoil scripts last a little longer, but eventually they get caught. EAC doing it's job very well. Imagine it without it. Thanks for proving my point.

Blocking their steam account doesn't magically stop them joining your games. Thanks for proving me right again though!

[McDinglefart]

scatman a écrit :

Kakas69 a écrit :

I never installed these types of malwares on my PC, so your argument is null.

Just because some other company also injecting people's private computers with these type of malwares just to sell a game, it does not make things better.

It shouldn't be allowed or accepted.

Kinda weird to lie on the internet, man. I can still see games you've played. Darktide used EAC. You had it installed haha.

I see you play BDO too. That uses a kernel anticheat. XIGNCODE3. Seems like my argument isn't null anymore. You should uninstall that man. Better stop playing forever.

I never played BDO. I never touched this game since developers discriminate my country with localization nonsenses.

If I had installed it, it probably was 10 years ago.

Same for rust. Last time I played it, it still was in early access something on version 0 before "rework".

You think it's a winning point for you?

Darktide does not have eac. If it had, it was removed before I started playing it. Darktide has modding you know.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Kakas69 a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

Kinda weird to lie on the internet, man. I can still see games you've played. Darktide used EAC. You had it installed haha.

I see you play BDO too. That uses a kernel anticheat. XIGNCODE3. Seems like my argument isn't null anymore. You should uninstall that man. Better stop playing forever.

I never played BDO. I never touched this game since developers discriminate my country with localization nonsenses.
Darktide does not have eac. If it had, it was removed before I started playing it. Darktide has modding you know.

You have played BDO. Stop lying lmfao.
Darktide did have EAC. Hence the past-tense.

So, first it was you've never installed these anticheats, and now you have? Sounds like you're a liar who doesn't know what he's talking about 😬

[Kiggles]

Darktide did use Easy-Anti cheat, another rootkit anti-cheat system.

If someone ends up with rootkits on their system unknowingly that is only further an argument against the practice of using them so casually, and illustrates the problem of being so flippant and cavalier toward anyone expressing concern that they can end up in situations where their system is plausibly compromised without realizing.

Call it out, if only to help someone address their security concerns. Hypocrisy however isn't actually a defeater, it's just a genetic fallacy.

[McDinglefart]

scatman a écrit :

Kakas69 a écrit :

I never played BDO. I never touched this game since developers discriminate my country with localization nonsenses.
Darktide does not have eac. If it had, it was removed before I started playing it. Darktide has modding you know.

You have played BDO. Stop lying lmfao.
Darktide did have EAC. Hence the past-tense.

So, first it was you've never installed these anticheats, and now you have? Sounds like you're a liar who doesn't know what he's talking about 😬

What darktide eac has to do with me when it no longer has it anymore? As far as I know it, its no longer installed with darktide (disabled), otherwise mods would never work. So, I never installed darktide version with eac.

BDO last time I tried playing was locked into Russia localization. I'm from EU. And Russia is former invader of my country. It's language and culture is foreign to me. It's a total disrespect to my identity and I never played this POS. I don't even own this game.
https://ibb.co/Bj9TBzb

Rust? Maybe they sneaked in malwares on my old PC when I did not known better 10 years ago. Last time I played it, it was still version 0 before rework that is current Rust. I probably wouldn't have cared much, because all I did on my PC was gaming.

Unlike today so I take security more serious.

Sorry to ruin your gotcha moment.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Kakas69 a écrit :

scatman a écrit :

You have played BDO. Stop lying lmfao.
Darktide did have EAC. Hence the past-tense.

So, first it was you've never installed these anticheats, and now you have? Sounds like you're a liar who doesn't know what he's talking about 😬

What darktide eac has to do with me when it no longer has it anymore?
Stop being a clown.

Because you outright said you've "never installed that malware" I know you play BDO, which has a rootkit anticheat, and Darktide, which had a rootkit anticheat.

I just find it amusing how people are so willing to boycot a game, which was made by great devs, over something as silly as a rookit anticheat. Something that has been standard for several years now and used in almost every single major game. Roughly 272 games use EAC on steam. 75 use XIGNCODE3. 68 use BattleEye. 62 use GameGuard (nProtect). 49 use Punkbuster. Yet, I don't see anyone here complaining about those 526 games which use intrusive anticheats? Everyone in this thread has played atleast one of these games. The hypocrisy is pathetic.