nProtect GameGuard: Official answer from Arrowhead's Technical Director

[lukaself]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/19dp2qw/helldivers_2_nprotect_gameguard_anticheat/

Hi everyone,

My name is Peter Lindgren and I'm the Technical Director of HELLDIVERS 2. I've been making games at Arrowhead since the Magicka-days and I've been involved in every game we've released to date.

I will do my best in this post to address the concerns and confusion that's come up recently regarding the choice of Anti-Cheat software in HELLDIVERS 2.

So, let's start off with the more urgent questions:

Is GameGuard a kernel-level / administrator-priviledge anti-cheat?

Yes, GameGuard is a "kernel-level", aka rootkit, anti-cheat. Most anti-cheat run at "kernel-level", especially all of the popular ones. It's unfortunately one of the more effective ways to combat cheating.

There are some anti-cheat that can run in "user-mode", but they are much less effective and tend to be cracked very quickly, resulting in widespread cheating.

Will GameGuard stay installed on my system after I've uninstalled HELLDIVERS 2?

No, GameGuard is removed at the same time as the game is uninstalled.

The installer and uninstaller for GameGuard is visibly included with the game in <install-dir>/tools/GGSetup.exe and <install-dir>/tools/gguninst.exe.

I'm worried about my privacy, will GameGuard collect sensitive information about me?

No, GameGuard does not collect any personally identifiable information (PII). And doing so would be a GDPR/ADPPA nightmare as well. I can speak from experience that we're all bending over backwards to be compliant with these regulations.

On a more technical note, GameGuard is scanning the running processes (applications) for malicious software and attempts to block such software from manipulating the game client.

Will GameGuard reduce the performance of my PC?

GameGuard is only active while the game is running and after thousands of hours of testing we’ve not noticed any noteworthy degradations of performance on our developer and QA workstations.

And the big one that needs plenty of context:

HELLDIVERS 2 is a co-op/PvE game, why do we even need Anti-Cheat?

That's a great question, and there's two related but separate points to it:

First, we want everyone to have a great time playing HELLDIVERS 2, with friends, ex-friends or randoms. What we've seen in some of our and others' games is that rampant cheating tends to have a very negative effect on players openness to playing, especially with randoms.

There's an anecdote from HELLDIVERS 1 I'd like to share:

When we released HELLDIVERS 1 on PC there was effectively no anti-cheat implemented. Additionally HELLDIVERS 1 uses a peer-to-peer networking model, and that means, from a security perspective, each game client will blindly trust each other.

Shortly after release we noticed there was a cheat going around which granted 9999 research samples. Unfortunately any non-cheaters in the same mission would also be granted 9999 research samples. These non-cheating players now had their entire progression ruined through no fault of their own.

We were able to deal with a lot of these early issues without using a third party solution, but it took a lot of work, and most of it was done reactively.

Incidentally HELLDIVERS 2 also uses a peer-to-peer networking model, but this time around we're trying to be more proactive and make sure everyone can play the intended experience.

Second is the Galactic War. There's this huge metagame going in the cloud which all players (and game clients) participate in. Even though we have other countermeasures in place, a cracked game client could make it easier to disrupt the Galactic War, which would sour everyone’s experience.

As a final note, on an open platform like PC it's not possible to stop cheating from ever happening. Someone with the skills, dedication and resources will ultimately succeed. The point of anti-cheat is to make it more difficult and time consuming to develop cheats.

Needless to say we will be keeping a very close eye for any issues that may be encountered at release.

See you on the battlefield ;)

-Peter

[RaNdOmKiLs666]

Yet another game ruined by out of touch suits forcing garbage drm into a promising co-op game.

This is why I love indie devs, they don't force literal rootkits into their games.

Like Anti-cheat basically only matters in competitive PvP games, but should stay out of single player and co-op titles.

Anyway, I am now skipping this game entirely, was going to get it later on a discount, but now not at all. Congrats on losing a sale, I guess lol.

[[☭]-Soviet-Triumph-]

Their government mandated spyware is infamous here in Korea, everything about it is outdated, ♥♥♥♥ always runs regardless of what you do, and getting rid of it is a hassle because it leaves its trace everywhere in your user and program files folder(even if its uninstaller works). I would advise everyone here to not trust any of their products.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

all you crybabies lmao. enjoy not playing ♥️. if you actually cared about privacy you wouldn't even be on windows in the first place.

half of you probably play valorant too lol.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

RaNdOmKiLs666 lähetti viestin:

Yet another game ruined by out of touch suits forcing garbage drm into a promising co-op game.

This is why I love indie devs, they don't force literal rootkits into their games.

Like Anti-cheat basically only matters in competitive PvP games, but should stay out of single player and co-op titles.

Anyway, I am now skipping this game entirely, was going to get it later on a discount, but now not at all. Congrats on losing a sale, I guess lol.

doubt they care about 16 people on steamforums who not only are technologically illiterate, but also eternal crybabies.

every anti-cheat is invasive. thats the entire point. the ones that aren't invasive aren't effective. CSGO/2? Filled to the brim with cheaters. Vanguard, EAC, BattleEye, Punkbuster, Ricochet, ESEA, and faceit are all very invasive anticheats. EAC itself is also essentially a rootkit. All the biggest games today use these AC's I just listed, games I guarantee you all play. So why aren't you boycotting those games too? It couldn't possibly be because you have no clue what you're talking about ... right?

[Neptas]

scatman lähetti viestin:

all you crybabies lmao. enjoy not playing ♥️. if you actually cared about privacy you wouldn't even be on windows in the first place.

half of you probably play valorant too lol.

Good thing I'm not on Windows, not do I play Valorant, but nice try.

scatman lähetti viestin:

doubt they care about 16 people on steamforums who not only are technologically illiterate, but also eternal crybabies.

If you're that knowledgeable, then tell me why none of the best coop games ever made on PC has/needs any kind of anti-cheat running on people's computer, but somehow Helldivers 2 need it?

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Neptas lähetti viestin:

scatman lähetti viestin:

all you crybabies lmao. enjoy not playing ♥️. if you actually cared about privacy you wouldn't even be on windows in the first place.

half of you probably play valorant too lol.

Good thing I'm not on Windows, not do I play Valorant, but nice try.

scatman lähetti viestin:

doubt they care about 16 people on steamforums who not only are technologically illiterate, but also eternal crybabies.

If you're that knowledgeable, then tell me why none of the best coop games ever made on PC has/needs any kind of anti-cheat running on people's computer, but somehow Helldivers 2 need it?

The best coop games.. such as what? P2P games with no online/community based progression? Something this game has? Why would, say, Borderlands 2 or Portal 2 need an anticheat? lmfao.

4 of your most played games, Planetside, Arma, ARK, and Rust all use very invasive anticheats. Rust, specifically EAC, which is essentially a rootkit. Why aren't you refunding those games if you care about anticheats this deeply?

[Neptas]

scatman lähetti viestin:

The best coop games.. such as what? P2P games with no online/community based progression? Something this game has?

Here's a list to help you I guess, cause it seems you're not that knowledgeable on the video game part:

- L4D1 + 2: Only has VAC, runs on server and not client, can be disabled
- Killing Floor 2: Only has VAC
- Don't Starve Together: Only has VAC
- Deep Rock Galactic: Nothing
- EDF: Nothing
- Payday 1/2/3: Nothing
- Phasmophobia: Nothing
- Lethal Company: Nothing

scatman lähetti viestin:

Why would, say, Borderlands 2 or Portal 2 need an anticheat? lmfao.

Great point! So why would Helldivers 2 needs one?

[[☭]-Soviet-Triumph-]

scatman lähetti viestin:

all you crybabies lmao. enjoy not playing ♥️. if you actually cared about privacy you wouldn't even be on windows in the first place.

half of you probably play valorant too lol.

My problem lies with the nProtect, If I have to send my data to somewhere I'd rather let Epic with EAC handle my data than some SK-government backed nobodies. Just take a look at the list of games this GameGuard thing is bundled with.
https://steamdb.info/tech/AntiCheat/nProtect_GameGuard/
Not the most impressive catalogue, to say the least.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Neptas lähetti viestin:

scatman lähetti viestin:

The best coop games.. such as what? P2P games with no online/community based progression? Something this game has?

Here's a list to help you I guess, cause it seems you're not that knowledgeable on the video game part:

- L4D1 + 2: Only has VAC, runs on server and not client, can be disabled
- Killing Floor 2: Only has VAC
- Don't Starve Together: Only has VAC
- Deep Rock Galactic: Nothing
- EDF: Nothing
- Payday 1/2/3: Nothing
- Phasmophobia: Nothing
- Lethal Company: Nothing

scatman lähetti viestin:

Why would, say, Borderlands 2 or Portal 2 need an anticheat? lmfao.

Great point! So why would Helldivers 2 needs one?

And every single one of those games have some of the worst cheating problems to exist. Thanks for proving my point.

Feel free to read the edit in my first reply to you, too.

You're wrong about payday 2 and 3 though.

Payday 2 has some form of anticheat - but it's mostly serverside checks the devs do which aren't really effective seeing as that game is a breeding ground for griefing cheaters.

Payday 3 also does the same.

Phasmo too.

[Neptas]

scatman lähetti viestin:

And every single one of those games have some of the worst cheating problems to exist. Thanks for proving my point.

Feel free to read the edit in my first reply to you, too.

Ah yes, cheating problems so big... no one ever talks about it, and those are still some of the best rated games on Steam, with some of them even being in the 97% positive review rate.

Wow, those games are clearly ruined and invested by cheaters /s.

In fact, almost all those games have higher rating than helldivers 1. If cheaters are so overwhelming, how come no one puts a negative review or make videos about it to get some awareness?

Out of the 4 games you said, I only had EAC/BattlEye for 2 of them, Arma and Ark can be played without anti-cheat.

The 2 others are PVP games (which I'm fine having anticheat for them, it's competitive after all, fairness is important), and I play them on a 2nd computer anyway, not my primary one.

But nice try going into my game list. I suggest you dive into my post history next, cause clearly you have too much time on your hand.

-
You've edited your reply after I wrote this, so I won't bother editing my own to reply to you from a previous message, just so we're clear.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Neptas lähetti viestin:

scatman lähetti viestin:

The best coop games.. such as what? P2P games with no online/community based progression? Something this game has?

Here's a list to help you I guess, cause it seems you're not that knowledgeable on the video game part:

- L4D1 + 2: Only has VAC, runs on server and not client, can be disabled
- Killing Floor 2: Only has VAC
- Don't Starve Together: Only has VAC
- Deep Rock Galactic: Nothing
- EDF: Nothing
- Payday 1/2/3: Nothing
- Phasmophobia: Nothing
- Lethal Company: Nothing

scatman lähetti viestin:

Why would, say, Borderlands 2 or Portal 2 need an anticheat? lmfao.

Great point! So why would Helldivers 2 needs one?

To reply to your edit;

Because it's a live service game and cross platform.

If the game were easily cheated on, especially since it's P2P, cheaters on PC could wreak havoc against console players.

Plus, like I said, it has features which are community driven objectives which not only are meant to be competitive in a way, but also has leaderboards.

Why would you want someone to ruin your progress, mess with you, ruin integrity, and torment others in an easy way? Want an example? Boot up GTA 5 for 10 minutes on PC and get back to me.

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

Neptas lähetti viestin:

scatman lähetti viestin:

And every single one of those games have some of the worst cheating problems to exist. Thanks for proving my point.

Feel free to read the edit in my first reply to you, too.

Ah yes, cheating problems so big... no one ever talks about it, and those are still some of the best rated games on Steam, with some of them even being in the 97% positive review rate.

Wow, those games are clearly ruined and invested by cheaters /s.

In fact, almost all those games have higher rating than helldivers 1. If cheaters are so overwhelming, how come no one puts a negative review or make videos about it to get some awareness?

Out of the 4 games you said, I only had EAC/BattlEye for 2 of them, Arma and Ark can be played without anti-cheat.

The 2 others are PVP games (which I'm fine having anticheat for them, it's competitive after all, fairness is important), and I play them on a 2nd computer anyway, not my primary one.

But nice try going into my game list. I suggest you dive into my post history next, cause clearly you have too much time on your hand.

??? Plenty of people talk about them lmao. L4D2 is full of cheaters on Versus and campaign ever since Valve abandoned it.

People constantly complain about cheaters in phasmo griefing, bricking their saves, or editing their money/gear to incorrectly flag them as cheaters to be cruel and get them banned.

Lethal company, same as phasmo in public lobbies. There's about 20 or so public cheats on 'that forum' (if you know, you know) which have 10's of thousands of downloads.

Another game I forgot to mention - Team fortress. Teeming with cheaters.

Smaller games such as EDF or don't starve are irrelevant in a topic like this. They're coop games for friends in your circle. Why would they need an anticheat for that? they're games which are locally saved, and usually encourage modding.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, which is pretty normal for steam forums.

last edit, promise; feel free to add me if you don't know of the forum I'm talking about. Im by no means trying to be hostile/rude, but it's frustrating when people talk about cheating/anticheats and are misinformed. Cheating is a HUGE market. The 1 forum I'm talking about is only the absolute tip of the iceberg. The helldiver Devs seem passionate about their game and clearly want to preserve it. They don't want it to end up like CS, PUBG/other games which are plagued with scum.

[[☭]-Soviet-Triumph-]

scatman lähetti viestin:

??? Plenty of people talk about them lmao. L4D2 is full of cheaters on Versus and campaign ever since Valve abandoned it.

People constantly complain about cheaters in phasmo griefing, bricking their saves, or editing their money/gear to incorrectly flag them as cheaters to be cruel and get them banned.

Lethal company, same as phasmo in public lobbies. There's about 20 or so public cheats on 'that forum' (if you know, you know) which have 10's of thousands of downloads.

Smaller games such as EDF or don't starve are irrelevant in a topic like this. They're coop games for friends in your circle. Why would they need an anticheat for that? they're games which are locally saved, and usually encourage modding.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, which is pretty normal for steam forums.

L4D2's cheating problem is not THAT rampant as people make out to be, I have 2K hours clocked in L4D2 and there's a lot of exploits and console commands that's been left unpatched and unblocked in that game, people often misunderstand them as cheats.
Everything else you said so far is straight truth though.

[Neptas]

scatman lähetti viestin:

Because it's a live service game and cross platform.

If the game were easily cheated on, especially since it's P2P, cheaters on PC could wreak havoc against console players.

Plus, like I said, it has features which are community driven objectives which not only are meant to be competitive in a way, but also has leaderboards.

Why would you want someone to ruin your progress, mess with you, ruin integrity, and torment others in an easy way? Want an example? Boot up GTA 5 for 10 minutes on PC and get back to me.

Here's the funny thing: The devs can easily make the game server-based, if they wanted to. No one's forcing them to do P2P, and it's well known it has terrible security.

The #1 rule of computer security is: Never trust the client, always verify all informations. And yet, helldivers' devs are incapable of following this rule. As such, I have no trust they won't use anticheat correctly (either because they are not honest, or simply due to mistakes and bugs).

Also seems you don't know what P2P actually means. You realize it's possible to have P2P without someone else affecting your own client, without the need for anticheat, right? It's just that most devs don't care, and go for the easiest route instead, instead of thinking a little bit ahead.

scatman lähetti viestin:

??? Plenty of people talk about them lmao. L4D2 is full of cheaters on Versus and campaign ever since Valve abandoned it.

People constantly complain about cheaters in phasmo griefing, bricking their saves, or editing their money/gear to incorrectly flag them as cheaters to be cruel and get them banned.

Lethal company, same as phasmo in public lobbies. There's about 20 or so public cheats on 'that forum' (if you know, you know) which have 10's of thousands of downloads.

Smaller games such as EDF or don't starve are irrelevant in a topic like this. They're coop games for friends in your circle. Why would they need an anticheat for that? they're games which are locally saved, and usually encourage modding.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, which is pretty normal for steam forums.

Funny how we never see those "people who constantly complain" without searching deep into each game's forum, and when you do find them, they have no proof of any hack, it's just people ranting for no reason. Reminds me of those "hackusations" back in the days, where people would report you for killing them.

Downloading cheats has nothing to do with the amount of cheaters in public games. Many people download them for private use / with friends. Totally irrelevant stats just like this.

Helldivers 1's player peak was less than 7000 players. EDF 5 was 8362, Don't Starve Together was 114k. Lol, of all the game listed, Helldivers is actually the smallest, so by your own argument, helldivers should have no problem at all. Both of them have public lobbies and can be played with many randoms, so they are perfectly good comparison.

"they're games which are locally saved" What has that anything to do with cheaters? Do you think cheaters can just modify files on a dedicated server?

[᲼᲼᲼scatman]

☭-Soviet-Triumph- lähetti viestin:

scatman lähetti viestin:

??? Plenty of people talk about them lmao. L4D2 is full of cheaters on Versus and campaign ever since Valve abandoned it.

People constantly complain about cheaters in phasmo griefing, bricking their saves, or editing their money/gear to incorrectly flag them as cheaters to be cruel and get them banned.

Lethal company, same as phasmo in public lobbies. There's about 20 or so public cheats on 'that forum' (if you know, you know) which have 10's of thousands of downloads.

Smaller games such as EDF or don't starve are irrelevant in a topic like this. They're coop games for friends in your circle. Why would they need an anticheat for that? they're games which are locally saved, and usually encourage modding.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, which is pretty normal for steam forums.

L4D2's cheating problem is not THAT rampant as people make out to be, I have 2K hours clocked in L4D2 and there's a lot of exploits and console commands that's been left unpatched and unblocked in that game, people often misunderstand them as cheats.
Everything else you said so far is straight truth though.

I stopped playing for a while because there was a resurgence of them in Versus - glad to hear it's gotten better. They're probably all on CS2 lmao.