TUNIC
Rocket Mar 19, 2024 @ 7:44pm
why does the game such a bad end?
Started off amazing. absolutely delightful. Then at the end, it became awful due to changing the playstyle drastically, and requiring learning a language and convoluted puzzles and memorisation of insanely long codes. I thought I was playing a game then find myself going to school again???? WTF?

seriously, I did everything by myself, no guides, totally awesome, until the Holy Cross was needed. From there it was just totally downhill.

What do you call a fox with a golden path? not a person with ADHD for sure. LOL
Last edited by Rocket; Mar 19, 2024 @ 7:48pm
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TrueEvil Mar 20, 2024 @ 1:17am 
I sincerely disagree that the endgame puzzles are as terrible as you describe, but I can accept that you don't like them. They're not for everyone, and that's okay.

However, the Holy Cross (or anything related to it) is not necessary to complete the game. You can go restore all your upgrades without it, go fight the Heir, and finish the game. That's your route if you don't like the puzzle stuff. You don't need to do anything more to finish.
Last edited by TrueEvil; Mar 20, 2024 @ 1:20am
Perseus Mar 20, 2024 @ 3:03am 
You don't need to learn the language (only required for two puzzles i think are badly made) or memorize the codes (you can write them down).
Sammun Mak Mar 21, 2024 @ 5:38am 
If you memorized the last code... I don't know if I should describe that as impressive or insane.

And if you figured out the language yourself, that's also very impressive. It's only needed for a single trophy which is not needed for the good ending.

But anyway, I'm ADHD as ♥♥♥♥ and this game went from "pretty good" to "masterpiece" to me with the stuff you said made it bad.
Rocket Mar 21, 2024 @ 7:55am 
Originally posted by Sammun Mak:
If you memorized the last code... I don't know if I should describe that as impressive or insane.

And if you figured out the language yourself, that's also very impressive. It's only needed for a single trophy which is not needed for the good ending.

But anyway, I'm ADHD as ♥♥♥♥ and this game went from "pretty good" to "masterpiece" to me with the stuff you said made it bad.
hehe, no, I had enough trouble following it written down...
I was really looking forward to figuring out the language. I thought it was translating as I picked up more pages and that would have been very cool, but it didn't. So I was thinking I might get some cipher and kept waiting for it to happen. I spent the entire game waiting for it and it came right at the end when I didn't really need it any more. That's really frustrating because of the wasted potential. Also, when I'm pretty much done with the story of games, I tend to want to move on. The idea of this 'busy work' at the end, and a major ending being locked behind so much hassle, is frustrating, because it's so much work for so little pay-off. I think this is a major balance issue. Games need to set up gameplay mechanics early on and remain consistent with them, or it will blind-side some people. If I'd been doing 'Holy Cross' puzzles right from the start, that would be consistent and expected. I appreciate learning mechanics throughout a game, Toki Tori 2 does that and I think it's fantastic. Most importantly, it's paced throughout.

Honestly, I've seen that observation a number of times, the language is only needed for one treasure? It's not needed to do anything major? Then why is it so prominent and why is it such the mystery? That makes me really mad because it seems like we are meant to be able to solve it, it's this mystery-box component and what is in the box? nothing really. That's so contrived, it's beyond belief. It's not even part of the world building, it doesn't inform you of anything about the world. why is everything in this language? no reason is given at all. The only reason I can see is that it affords the developer the option to be deliberately vague.
Last edited by Rocket; Mar 21, 2024 @ 8:05am
Rocket Mar 21, 2024 @ 8:06am 
Surely it would make more sense that as the fox regains more of their memories, they become gradually able to read the words, thereby enabling us to read them. That would be good world building. yet, even with the instruction manual completed, the fox has al their memories yet still cannot read it? story-wise, that doesn't make sense at all. Perhaps the developer could have the option of being able to translate stuff yourself from the start, but as the game continues, it doesn't make sense for that to still be required.

I also think the Holy Cross puzzles are needlessly complicated. Either that or they need some form of feedback and potential to do them in portions or rewind time if you make a mistake in the input. And they should be hinted at way earlier. OR, not have the good ending locked behind this.
Perseus Mar 21, 2024 @ 9:27am 
Originally posted by Rocket:
Either that or they need some form of feedback and potential to do them in portions or rewind time if you make a mistake in the input.
There is an accessibility option that makes it easier to input codes. I've never tried it, so i don't know how it works, but it is there.
Sammun Mak Mar 21, 2024 @ 1:27pm 
The language can be solved and many players will enjoy that, but it's sort of a difficult post-game thing for those people who are really smart & dedicated. Otherwise, the instruction manual is meant to be read without knowing the text via context clues. There's nothing gameplay-important you learn in it from knowing the language other than what is needed for 1 of the treasures.

The instruction book is meant to be solved, but not my translation -- instead by inductive reasoning, theorizing, and experimenting. You can figure out every single bit other than that tiny one by doing these methods.

The framing of the game is that we're playing a normal SNES style game except that it's in another language, and we've got an instruction booklet that another player has scribbled notes in. We can imagine that the game isn't vague at all if we speak that language, that it gives simple instructions like any SNES game. In these SNES games most of the plot was in the instruction book you read on the way home from the store and you didn't expect much story in the game itself. The game never breaks that framing. It's not that we don't understand the language because the fox doesn't know it. The fox probably understands the language, but he's just our avatar, he doesn't feel the need to communicate it to us any more than Link turns to the camera and offers his input on what goes on in Link to the Past.

This leads to very unique abstract puzzles and many 'AHA' moments. It's fine if it didn't do it for you, but for those of us that like this game, it's a wonderful and unique experience that hasn't really been replicated (the closest I can think is outer wilds.) We weren't looking for heavy world building or a moment of exposition. We got what we wanted. There are a lot of great puzzle games out there but most of them clearly define the bounds of what you can and can't do out of mechanical necessity.
Last edited by Sammun Mak; Mar 21, 2024 @ 1:33pm
Sammun Mak Mar 21, 2024 @ 1:32pm 
Originally posted by Rocket:
Surely it would make more sense that as the fox regains more of their memories, they become gradually able to read the words, thereby enabling us to read them. That would be good world building. yet, even with the instruction manual completed, the fox has al their memories yet still cannot read it? story-wise, that doesn't make sense at all. Perhaps the developer could have the option of being able to translate stuff yourself from the start, but as the game continues, it doesn't make sense for that to still be required.

I also think the Holy Cross puzzles are needlessly complicated. Either that or they need some form of feedback and potential to do them in portions or rewind time if you make a mistake in the input. And they should be hinted at way earlier. OR, not have the good ending locked behind this.

I've always wondered if it kinda cheats for that last holy cross puzzle, because I got it on my second try. Maybe it has some tolerance for mistaken inputs. Anyway, I don't know what you're talking about for "hinted at way earlier". There are a lot of very short holy cross entries which will teach you that mechanic.
Last edited by Sammun Mak; Mar 21, 2024 @ 1:32pm
FRΛCTURΞD SOUL Mar 24, 2024 @ 2:34am 
i highly doubt you did all the aftergame puzzles without help seeing as it requires spectrographs analys, notes layout for more words, and probably a color language too it requiers way more than just playing to get a conclusion on what is happening near the end ...
Perseus Mar 24, 2024 @ 3:07am 
Originally posted by Frac':
The thing you're mentioning isn't what anyone here is referring to.
BonsaiInACup Apr 6, 2024 @ 8:19pm 
hey i mean some people just like that stuff. If its not for you, its not for you. Doesnt mean the ending's bad.
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