Easy Mode

[Prof. Purble]

I feel you'll get more buyers if you include an easier mode that allows more people to be able to settle into it a bit better and then they may consider playing Normal Mode if they're up for the challenge.

Edit: Want to delete this thread but can't. Not active in these forums anymore and I've lost all interest for this game. Have a nice day.

[Om nom nom]

Originally posted by Prof. Purble:

I feel you'll get more buyers if you include an easier mode that allows more people to be able to settle into it a bit better and then they may consider playing Normal Mode if they're up for the challenge.

Edit: Want to delete this thread but can't. Not active in these forums anymore and I've lost all interest for this game. Have a nice day.

Easy mode ALREADY exists in the game. You can go into the settings and turn on infinite stamina and/or invincibility. Basically god mode. So easy mode already exists in the game. You just didn't bother to look.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Alp 🤣👌:

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

It does affect me.

I simply don't want that opportunity at my disposal, it's there every time may I struggle or not I know in the back of my mind I can turn invincible and that drains all the fun and tension away. You probably will not understand but you don't need to. Just saying "it doesn't affect anyone else" is wrong and i'm never tired of mentioning it.
Every choice you make as a designer will always affect everyone, even if it's in a meta way.

If there would be a possibility not being able to change the game once I started it or an justification in form of achievments it could be better, but many indie designers nowadays never think of that, they just copy Celestes approach again and again like it's some industry standard.

I mean, that sounds more like your issue. Most people just choose a higher difficulty if they want more challenge.

Trust me I hear that every time.
But an "you" issue. Is still an issue. "Doesn't effect anyone" is not for you or me to say. It's an personal individual feeling we cannot draw a general rule from.
It's true that your decision how to play the game doesn't affect me. But the fact that this feature is in the game definitely can affect someone.

I hear and read a lot of people do gain positive feeling for knowing that they have an easy mode in the game it makes them feel good being able to rely on that in worst case, even if they are not using it throughout the game.

So they gain a "positive" reaction for a feature that simply exists but they never use. Still it affects their enjoyment.
So is it that odd, that perhaps an opposite phenomenon exists as well? Gaining a bad feeling for knowing that you always have that path of no resistance at your disposal.

That's all I can say about it.

[Alp 🤣👌]

Originally posted by Om nom nom:

Originally posted by Prof. Purble:

I feel you'll get more buyers if you include an easier mode that allows more people to be able to settle into it a bit better and then they may consider playing Normal Mode if they're up for the challenge.

Edit: Want to delete this thread but can't. Not active in these forums anymore and I've lost all interest for this game. Have a nice day.

Easy mode ALREADY exists in the game. You can go into the settings and turn on infinite stamina and/or invincibility. Basically god mode. So easy mode already exists in the game. You just didn't bother to look.

The options are nice, I tried turning off stamina drain and it does make the game easier, sadly also takes away that part of the game. An option for enemies to just have less health or the enemies telegraphic their attacks earlier so it's easier to dodge them etc. without taking away gameplay features, (I do not consider being hard a feature unless it's a difficulty option.) I do think rewards for difficulty can be good. Like give more credits, achievements etc. for picking a harder difficulty. Let people tailor their experience so they can have fun without frustration, not everyone needs more frustration in their life.

[Stoibs]

Originally posted by Om nom nom:

Easy mode ALREADY exists in the game. You can go into the settings and turn on infinite stamina and/or invincibility. Basically god mode. So easy mode already exists in the game. You just didn't bother to look.

I appreciate the people in this thread pointing that out.
I mentioned it earlier but it isn't labelled very clearly or was intuitive to be there IMO rather than a start-up choice or just within the general settings.

When I think of *accessibility options* in a game I think of Colour blindness mode, controls for one hand, subtitle size and settings etc.
I didn't think the difficulty settings would be in there so I never thought to look.

EDIT: After booting it up on gamepass and checking it out it seems like there's just a few cheat options in there? I thought everyone posting this here was talking about true difficulty toggles and parameters regarding the enemy speed/damage/health etc.. IE things that true difficulty modes actually adjust in gaming. Seems I was mistaken

[Om nom nom]

Originally posted by Stoibs:

Originally posted by Om nom nom:

Easy mode ALREADY exists in the game. You can go into the settings and turn on infinite stamina and/or invincibility. Basically god mode. So easy mode already exists in the game. You just didn't bother to look.

I appreciate the people in this thread pointing that out.
I mentioned it earlier but it isn't labelled very clearly or was intuitive to be there IMO rather than a start-up choice or just within the general settings.

When I think of *accessibility options* in a game I think of Colour blindness mode, controls for one hand, subtitle size and settings etc.
I didn't think the difficulty settings would be in there so I never thought to look.

I have watched a few video reviews that mentioned this. Several of them have pointed out just how important the manuals are in the game. Incredibly important in fact. There are a lot of secrets and a lot of knowledge in the manuals that help you with the game. This was a very deliberate design choice that I applaud. Most people never even bother looking at manuals but in this game it's actual a downright requirement. No game really does this and it's a huge breath of fresh air. It does bring back nostalgia of old NES Legend of Zelda era games where you often needed the Nintendo Power magazine to see the map and games where you actually needed to get out a notepad and write down notes and draw out patterns or make your own map. That just doesn't happen anymore in games today. Everything is dumbed down and holds your hand way too often.

The game was designed this way very deliberately as it wants you to actually try and exercise your brain and it wants you to be intrigued to try and figure these things out on your own. The game is in a foreign language and you have to use the manuals to try and figure things out. A lot of things. How to upgrade your character to secrets, etc. That's amazing and very unique. Basically don't disregard the manual. Come back to it often. Engage your brain and you will be rewarded for doing so. An absolutely brilliant game design choice that a lot of players are going to miss because they just focus on the gameplay aspect.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Om nom nom:

Originally posted by Stoibs:

I appreciate the people in this thread pointing that out.
I mentioned it earlier but it isn't labelled very clearly or was intuitive to be there IMO rather than a start-up choice or just within the general settings.

When I think of *accessibility options* in a game I think of Colour blindness mode, controls for one hand, subtitle size and settings etc.
I didn't think the difficulty settings would be in there so I never thought to look.

I have watched a few video reviews that mentioned this. Several of them have pointed out just how important the manuals are in the game. Incredibly important in fact. There are a lot of secrets and a lot of knowledge in the manuals that help you with the game. This was a very deliberate design choice that I applaud. Most people never even bother looking at manuals but in this game it's actual a downright requirement. No game really does this and it's a huge breath of fresh air. It does bring back nostalgia of old NES Legend of Zelda era games where you often needed the Nintendo Power magazine to see the map and games where you actually needed to get out a notepad and write down notes and draw out patterns or make your own map. That just doesn't happen anymore in games today. Everything is dumbed down and holds your hand way too often.

The game was designed this way very deliberately as it wants you to actually try and exercise your brain and it wants you to be intrigued to try and figure these things out on your own. The game is in a foreign language and you have to use the manuals to try and figure things out. A lot of things. How to upgrade your character to secrets, etc. That's amazing and very unique. Basically don't disregard the manual. Come back to it often. Engage your brain and you will be rewarded for doing so. An absolutely brilliant game design choice that a lot of players are going to miss because they just focus on the gameplay aspect.

Oh come on slack it off, that sounds highly pretentious. An game that lets you skip all the gameplay on a whim is everything but definitely not respecting your brain capacity.

Forcing players too look up on manuals instead of making them solve riddles with their own intuiton are you kidding me? It's not really a manual since it's in the game and not an external source you rely on. What StarTropics back then did, that was innovative. I wonder if people really have such low standards nowadays.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Stoibs:

EDIT: After booting it up on gamepass and checking it out it seems like there's just a few cheat options in there? I thought everyone posting this here was talking about true difficulty toggles and parameters regarding the enemy speed/damage/health etc.. IE things that true difficulty modes actually adjust in gaming. Seems I was mistaken :csd2meh:

No they are not cheats and it's rude calling them like that. They are "accessibility" options. That's why its on the accessibility tab. Seems like you are new to the modern ideological landscape.

[AngelTheVixen]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by Om nom nom:

I have watched a few video reviews that mentioned this. Several of them have pointed out just how important the manuals are in the game. Incredibly important in fact. There are a lot of secrets and a lot of knowledge in the manuals that help you with the game. This was a very deliberate design choice that I applaud. Most people never even bother looking at manuals but in this game it's actual a downright requirement. No game really does this and it's a huge breath of fresh air. It does bring back nostalgia of old NES Legend of Zelda era games where you often needed the Nintendo Power magazine to see the map and games where you actually needed to get out a notepad and write down notes and draw out patterns or make your own map. That just doesn't happen anymore in games today. Everything is dumbed down and holds your hand way too often.

The game was designed this way very deliberately as it wants you to actually try and exercise your brain and it wants you to be intrigued to try and figure these things out on your own. The game is in a foreign language and you have to use the manuals to try and figure things out. A lot of things. How to upgrade your character to secrets, etc. That's amazing and very unique. Basically don't disregard the manual. Come back to it often. Engage your brain and you will be rewarded for doing so. An absolutely brilliant game design choice that a lot of players are going to miss because they just focus on the gameplay aspect.

Oh come on slack it off, that sounds highly pretentious. An game that lets you skip all the gameplay on a whim is everything but definitely not respecting your brain capacity.

Forcing players too look up on manuals instead of making them solve riddles with their own intuiton are you kidding me? It's not really a manual since it's in the game and not an external source you rely on. What StarTropics back then did, that was innovative. I wonder if people really have such low standards nowadays.

Jesus, dude. It's just an expression, it's not a literal manual. In more understandable terms, it's like a guidebook, tutorial stuff, help. Some people also like to look at the illustrations (like I did) as it's done in the old style down to the printing ink patterns and personal notes in pen and pencil. It's yet another extremely nostalgic feature as is most of the game. It even has little tidbits of lore and details on things.

But seriously. Some of the stuff can be difficult to figure out on your own, and by god I've needed it at times. That's what the in-game instruction booklet is there for. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by Stoibs:

EDIT: After booting it up on gamepass and checking it out it seems like there's just a few cheat options in there? I thought everyone posting this here was talking about true difficulty toggles and parameters regarding the enemy speed/damage/health etc.. IE things that true difficulty modes actually adjust in gaming. Seems I was mistaken :csd2meh:

No they are not cheats and it's rude calling them like that. They are "accessibility" options. That's why its on the accessibility tab. Seems like you are new to the modern ideological landscape.

Uh, yeah, functionally, infinite health and stamina that you can turn on and off are cheats. Calling the options something else doesn't make them not what they actually are at their base.

[Stoibs]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

No they are not cheats and it's rude calling them like that. They are "accessibility" options. That's why its on the accessibility tab. Seems like you are new to the modern ideological landscape.

Granted I never got to play with any of them yet (Timezones..)
But wasn't one of the options for invulnerability? Unless I'm misunderstanding what that toggle does..

Sounds exactly like what a cheat code from the 90's would do.
I guess I am ignorant to the "modern ideological landscape", whatever that means.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by AngelTheVixen:

Uh, yeah, functionally, infinite health and stamina that you can turn on and off are cheats. Calling the options something else doesn't make them not what they actually are at their base.

So you are calling for example an disabled person a cheater because they toggle on infinite health because it would be their only way enjoying the game? This would be degrading.

[AngelTheVixen]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by AngelTheVixen:

Uh, yeah, functionally, infinite health and stamina that you can turn on and off are cheats. Calling the options something else doesn't make them not what they actually are at their base.

So you are calling for example an disabled person a cheater because they toggle on infinite health because it would be their only way enjoying the game? This would be degrading.

Sure, why not. It's their choice to use it or not. If they choose to, regardless of their ability to complete a game, they're using a cheat. You only associate 'cheating' with a negative connotation, but I don't feel that way for people that need them, they can enjoy the game however they please. But they're still cheats.

[8bitGuru]

I'm 41. I beat Contra once without cheating many years ago. I can likely still finish the first 3 stages of Ninja Gaiden without taking a hit. I say this because I want to make clear I've played hard games and wouldn't consider myself a casual. I liked The Messenger for it's difficulty level, if that gives any sense of where I'm coming from. I do not have time for the Souls games. Shovel Knight, The Messenger, even Cyber Shadow are games I don't mind though. The amount of free time I can allocate to gaming shifted in my 30s and so did the amount of time I am able to sit down and play a game (the Civ series was definitely first to go). Sorry, I shouldn't be giving you my life story here, but I'm reading some hostility towards accessibility of games and, frankly I've been on both sides of this and wanted to make that clear.

I came to find out why Tunic is a souls-like because I absolutely loathe the Souls games. I can deal with Shovel Knight because the souls inheritance there seems to be returning to your corpse for items. I came here hoping I could determine if this game was going to be more like a Zelda exploring adventure inspired by classic 8 and 16 bit gaming, or if it was a combat-focus puzzle Souls game. No disrespect to anyone who likes the Souls games. I get it, but it's not for me. Even if I had the time, I just don't enjoy them. To each their own.

So, I hope this game does have modes that aren't unforgiving and expecting people to invest untold hours to get past them. I am definitely not looking for a GodHand-difficulty experience.

tl;dr hoping this game isn't very much like a Souls game because I hate them. I wish people wouldn't gatekeep gaming

[AngelTheVixen]

Originally posted by 8bitGuru:

I'm 41. I beat Contra once without cheating many years ago. I can likely still finish the first 3 stages of Ninja Gaiden without taking a hit. I say this because I want to make clear I've played hard games and wouldn't consider myself a casual. I liked The Messenger for it's difficulty level, if that gives any sense of where I'm coming from. I do not have time for the Souls games. Shovel Knight, The Messenger, even Cyber Shadow are games I don't mind though. The amount of free time I can allocate to gaming shifted in my 30s and so did the amount of time I am able to sit down and play a game (the Civ series was definitely first to go). Sorry, I shouldn't be giving you my life story here, but I'm reading some hostility towards accessibility of games and, frankly I've been on both sides of this and wanted to make that clear.

I came to find out why Tunic is a souls-like because I absolutely loathe the Souls games. I can deal with Shovel Knight because the souls inheritance there seems to be returning to your corpse for items. I came here hoping I could determine if this game was going to be more like a Zelda exploring adventure inspired by classic 8 and 16 bit gaming, or if it was a combat-focus puzzle Souls game. No disrespect to anyone who likes the Souls games. I get it, but it's not for me. Even if I had the time, I just don't enjoy them. To each their own.

So, I hope this game does have modes that aren't unforgiving and expecting people to invest untold hours to get past them. I am definitely not looking for a GodHand-difficulty experience.

tl;dr hoping this game isn't very much like a Souls game because I hate them. I wish people wouldn't gatekeep gaming

Speaking as someone else who grew up on old stuff. This game has some combat yes, and apparently, it's tough for some people to learn, but not too tough if you're patient. Apparently, there's a lot of complainers about it, and frankly, I don't feel like it's like Dark Souls that much, as it's quite forgiving with very little on the BS side. There's a few elements that are similar, but Dark Souls didn't invent any of it.

The game has linear progression with exploration and finding the way to go from point A to point B so you can get through point C, with hidden bits sprinkled here and there. It absolutely oozes classic style games and their design elements without being unfair, and there's a lot of little things to fuel your nostalgia, and everything meshes well, just about nothing is wasted. I for one find it to be a brilliant game.