Sneaking is wildly inconsistent

[Cannon Fodder]

Enemies see bodies through walls. See you in cover. Know where you are immediately in any situation. Standing up or crouching alerts them. Silent takedowns trigger alert status.

SOMETIMES sneaking works well, but most of the time it's an inconsistent mess and it's frankly insulting to players who prefer this method of play.

I have compiled an example of the inconsisties to illustrate my point. Believe me, I know a lot of time the sneaking works, but the inconsistencies are maddening.

https://youtu.be/6q59ULKqfkQ

[Phosphorescence]

Hit and miss for me. Sometimes I can stealth kill a target And for whatever reason they guy 3 walls and 2 floors down away Knew his buddy just died. And otehrtime I would get a kill and They Instatnly Look my way(being in the hills quite far) and i get spotted with no chance to duck(which i should not have too at my distance). Like wtf.

[J4n1]

Stealth is inconsistent.
Mostly it works fine, but occasionally you get weird detections when you shouldn't, and other times every seems to go blind and deaf.

Wish i could get better audio feedback on how silent i am and where enemies are by their footsteps.
Oh well, keep calm and shovel on.

[Hugh_Mung_Bean]

Originally posted by Cannon Fodder:

Originally posted by Eclipse:

i sneak perfectly fine. do you struggle using the crouch mechanic, because the only way to remain hidden is by staying crouched....

I crouch all the time. The simple ACT of standing where no one is looking at you should not trigger a base-wide ALERT.

I knew I'd get a bunch of "You don't know how to stealth". I might just be pampered by MGS' stealth model, but at least COVER and sight WORKS in that game. So I have video proof of the following;

• Bad window vaulting leading to discovery (sometimes the douche just jumps instead)
  
• Peeking out from cover alerting an entire base (when no one was looking in my direction)
  
• Bodies being seen THROUGH buildings (had it happen twice)
  
• Getting the alert indicator, but moving to cover, but while in cover and out of sight, an alert triggers anyway (bonus, with a guy warping 4 feet like magic as well)
  
• Takedowns being heard inconsistently
  
• silencers not silencing (Bonus, back-to-back clip of it not working, and then suddenly working)
  
• An entire base going on alert because I threw a rock.

All I want is consistency, and mechanics that work within the rules they claim to set. This game does not do that.

https://youtu.be/6q59ULKqfkQ

so:
1. You tried to vault through a half closed window, expecting it to work perfectly. Granted, in real life that would be easy enough, but the game mechanics probably treated it as too small an opening.
2. You left a dead body on a rooftop which wouldn't have been spotted by any enemies on the ground, but there was another sniper who could have easily spotted it. Even that aside, there are random animal attacks and all sorts of other ♥♥♥♥ that triggers the whole base to go wild, if you don't give yourself away during that time they go back to normal without setting off the alarm.
3. I have only had that happen in a player-built map in arcade, but granted there are probably areas in the main game with the same bug where the walls don't properly break line of sight.
4. If they are already somewhat alert for any other reason, the bar doesn't always need to fill completely for them to go into panic mode. Often if they aren't alerted, they will just go investigate.
5. Takedowns are always heard within a certain range of other enemies, that range depending on what weapon you use and the angle of the takedown (behind with empty hands being the best). Of course they will hear if you go up to someone, punch him in the throat and kick him in the face, vs snapping his neck.
Of course, they may also be bugs but I don't think its fair on the developers to assume everything that goes wrong is a bug. Sometimes we make mistakes, or are unfamiliar with specific mechanics.
I personally haven't had any consistency issues, but I am always very systematic in the way I take bases, unless I get impatient and just walk through with a rifle going for headshots (in which case, if anything, they are too unaware. Instances of walking through an entire base just shooting people one by one and noone notices are fairly common).

[Cannon Fodder]

Originally posted by CheesusSliced:

so:
1. You tried to vault through a half closed window, expecting it to work perfectly. Granted, in real life that would be easy enough, but the game mechanics probably treated it as too small an opening.
2. You left a dead body on a rooftop which wouldn't have been spotted by any enemies on the ground, but there was another sniper who could have easily spotted it. Even that aside, there are random animal attacks and all sorts of other ♥♥♥♥ that triggers the whole base to go wild, if you don't give yourself away during that time they go back to normal without setting off the alarm.
3. I have only had that happen in a player-built map in arcade, but granted there are probably areas in the main game with the same bug where the walls don't properly break line of sight.
4. If they are already somewhat alert for any other reason, the bar doesn't always need to fill completely for them to go into panic mode. Often if they aren't alerted, they will just go investigate.
5. Takedowns are always heard within a certain range of other enemies, that range depending on what weapon you use and the angle of the takedown (behind with empty hands being the best). Of course they will hear if you go up to someone, punch him in the throat and kick him in the face, vs snapping his neck.
Of course, they may also be bugs but I don't think its fair on the developers to assume everything that goes wrong is a bug. Sometimes we make mistakes, or are unfamiliar with specific mechanics.
I personally haven't had any consistency issues, but I am always very systematic in the way I take bases, unless I get impatient and just walk through with a rifle going for headshots (in which case, if anything, they are too unaware. Instances of walking through an entire base just shooting people one by one and noone notices are fairly common).

1; That is EXCEPTIONALLY forgiving...when you are told "You can do X" in a game, and then it doesn't work properly, you just shrug it off as "Guess that happens". This is ONE example of it happening, it's not uncommon...or, do you want a compilation video of just vaulting issues? Be reasonable...
2: Yes, you are ABSOLUTELY right...except it's not about him being spotted by any other enemy, he was spotted through walls. The first instance, a heavy spots the guy I killed, not even JUST spots him, but spontaneously goes "WHOA!" and turns to his left to look through a building at the corpse (See 3:12), and the second instance, the same guy whos body was found in a separate attempt, sees through a roof to see the snipers body. (See 5:52). Now, the second instance he MAY be able to see a bit better than it seems, I didn't walk back to his position to look.
3: Yes, and in a game where you don't want bodies seen, this is not acceptable.
4: So how does this explain 2:30? No one even facing me, I press C to look above cover then quick duck back down, and am immediately GPS'd by every enemy...
5: No. Never had this issue Far Cry 3. My very first experience with this game, when I took over Falls End, I climbed up a building to kill the guy at the mounted LMG. I successfully came up behind him, unnoticed and SNAPPED HIS NECK. People then ran out of the church down the road (approximately 60-80 meters) fully aware.

You are too forgiving. If a game charges me $60, when it's the FIFTH installment of a game, in an era where shortcuts and a lack of customer appreciation (I'm looking at you EA), you should be a little more critical. Your compromising attitude is why AAA game companies have gotten away with screwing people over. That may be a bit hyperbolic in this games case, because a lot of elements are well done (Like I said, the shooting feels amazing, and I think it looks gorgeous), but simple mechanics like cover, and sight-lines that have been being used since the Playstation 1 era should be far more refined and consistent than this.

[Family Guy Gaming]

I think stealth is too easy if anything. Especially as you get perks.

[jck]

My stealth is fine except when I mess up......which is a lot.................

[glynne]

I figured out what was messing me up at the FANG Center now, and that's the judges. I'm almost 100% sure they can smell you or something now. Or at the very least have heightened hearing. I've been messing around with them a lot, and they will pretty much always detect me through walls and round corners. If I'm close to them at all it's game over.

They make stealth a proper nightmare, since at the start of the game I don't have a weapon that will one shot them, even with a headshot, so the best thing I can do is try and clear out the rest of the base around them and then finish them off last.

Anyone got any good techniques for dealing with those wolven idiots?

[Angry Rabbit]

I was thinking it might be the Judges as well, though I've yet to explore that region, so I don't know exactly how they work yet.

It appears there could have been some line of sight issues with guards finding bodies (I've had a couple instances like that, but after investigating after the ensuing firefight and I took a closer look at where they were at in comparison to the body, their vision was a lot closer to seeing the corpse than I originally thought. This could be an issue with some minor seeing through corners (or onto roofs, as the case usually is with me), or it could just be we're misjudging angles of vision. FC5 might just be very unforgiving in those angles.

The window issue, yeah, I thought that was just a window that was too small. However, later on in your video, you actually made it through no problem. What this tells me is, either you weren't pressing the right buttons (forget to hold W when you jumped maybe?), were ever so slightly out of the proper position to trigger the vaulting prompt (this happens to me ALL the time with grappling hooks), or the game just totally hates you and decided to bug out at that point. After looking at the video, I'm leaning towards the improper placement, which is a fault of Ubisoft since their environmental triggers are wonky in numerous other places as well.

As for when the base goes on alert and seem to know exactly where you're at, I don't think they're running AT you, but rather, they're just running in your general direction. For example, when you did the take down on the armored guard after finally jumping through the window, that was because someone (Judge maybe?) heard the kill, alerted the base, and then rushed into the room to find out what the commotion was. This actually doubles as many of the other people arguing that stealth is broken because it's TOO easy. You were crouched down and stealthed. The kill was heard, but you weren't. The other guards, now on alert, rushed towards the body to find out what happened. That first one stood RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU but couldn't see you because of awesome ninja super stealth that you have. Then you rushed up, wailed on him and killed him as the rest of the guards came in AND THEN they began to see you, at which point you were already overwhelmed.

One of the earlier attempts, it happened again. Someone found a body. You can hear them cry out right before the base goes on alert. All the guards started running, but there were only a couple of directions they could go, and one of them happened to be to run right past where you were hiding behind the box. You prepped with explodey arrows, popped out, and fired an arrow at them while you were still hidden. They then QUICKLY noticed you, because you knocked yourself on your ass with the close range explosion, and at that point, were again overwhelmed. You were still hidden up until that point, but, as soon as they started to run in your derection, you immediately reacted. It's possible, though probably not likely given your position, that they may have just ran right past you and not noticed you, as I believe they were running over to check the body of the guard you distracted with a rock (I don't know if he was the one discovered, but the guards were running in that direction, so that's my guess.).

My advice is to flat out REMOVE those bodies as best you can. Either with the alien gun (Magnapulse? I don't remember what it's called.) or simply pick up the body and run about 50 yards back into the forest, or on the other side of a hill or something, and then dump it there, then return to continue your mission. It can be a pain in the ass, but by removing the bodies equation made stealthing INFINITELY easier for me, to the point that it's really a joke as I keep running into those situations where someone hears a kill, and then stands right next to me going staring at his dead comrade unable to figure out who did it.

All in all, most of your examples can be explained or at least POSSIBLY explained, BUT! most of them also shouldn't really be an issue because the stealth isn't very well polished and that leads to these issues you're having. And THAT lands squarely on Ubisoft's shoulders.

Unless it's all the Judges. In which case, ♥♥♥♥ the Judges.

[UncivilS3rvant]

Originally posted by 501st Dread Pirate Robert:

You prepped with explodey arrows, popped out, and fired an arrow at them while you were still hidden. They then QUICKLY noticed you, because you knocked yourself on your ass with the close range explosion, and at that point, were again overwhelmed.

Not sure that anyone can complain about broken stealth when using explosive arrows...

[Toj Karin]

Originally posted by Cannon Fodder:

And sometimes it works great for me too. I don't know what it was about the F.A.N.G. center, every clip shown was one after the other. I spent 45 minutes trying and dying and trying again building up these examples and EVERY time an action I did before produced wildly different results. Like throwing rocks. All but the last clip the rock distracts a guard...except the last one, where suddenly, for no explanation the entire base goes on alert.
If that were a one time thing, I'd shrug it off, except the game does this with every aspect so that something goes unexplainable ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with every mission.
A headshot randomly doesn't kill. A guard suddenly hears you behind him. People suddenly spawn right behind you. A wild mountain lion suddenly barges into a house (by opening a door...). An arrow alerts an entire base. A molotov hits a guy and he walks away with no issue.

This adds up. And in this game, there's a lot of it. And believe me, I'd LOVE to spend days cataloguing the amount of crap that goes on in this game that makes no sense, but when people show up here and say "Oh this one thing didn't go wrong for me, you're crazy," it really irks me.

Don't add a sneaking mechanic to a game if you're not going to make the rules apply consistently, don't make characters use cover if the cover mechanic doesn't actually work, and don't add an "alert" meter if the meter will sometimes be completely bypassed with no explanation.
That's my point, it's broken.
Don't get me wrong, when things go right in this game it feels sooo good, but the inconsistency is atrocious.

If you hit someone with a rock, he goes into alert state. Might be the case if you throw it too close too or if you fling the rock right past the enemy without hitting him. Also, if you distract one enemy too many times in short period of time before he go back to the relaxed state, he will go fully alerted.

I've never seen entire bases getting alerted if I didn't make aforementioned mistakes.

[Bright_lord_]

Same Problem

[J4n1]

In my experience, throwing a rock while someone is already checking a noise from a rock, is going to make them insta alarmed.
Haven't really tested it, i pretty much abandoned rocks for the most part early on.

[Toj Karin]

Originally posted by J4n1:

In my experience, throwing a rock while someone is already checking a noise from a rock, is going to make them insta alarmed.
Haven't really tested it, i pretty much abandoned rocks for the most part early on.

Not immediately. It requires a few rocks. The position there you throw them might affect it too. Throwing them to the same spot or near the investigating enemy will make him fully alert in my testing.

[J4n1]

Originally posted by Toj Karin:

Originally posted by J4n1:

In my experience, throwing a rock while someone is already checking a noise from a rock, is going to make them insta alarmed.
Haven't really tested it, i pretty much abandoned rocks for the most part early on.

Not immediately. It requires a few rocks. The position there you throw them might affect it too. Throwing them to the same spot or near the investigating enemy will make him fully alert in my testing.

I did mean near enough to affect the one searching.
I think there should be a bit more escalation between "hear a noise" and "alarms blazing".
Mostly i just don't bother with rocks, rarely need them.

[glynne]

Originally posted by 501st Dread Pirate Robert:

I was thinking it might be the Judges as well, though I've yet to explore that region, so I don't know exactly how they work yet.

It appears there could have been some line of sight issues with guards finding bodies (I've had a couple instances like that, but after investigating after the ensuing firefight and I took a closer look at where they were at in comparison to the body, their vision was a lot closer to seeing the corpse than I originally thought. This could be an issue with some minor seeing through corners (or onto roofs, as the case usually is with me), or it could just be we're misjudging angles of vision. FC5 might just be very unforgiving in those angles.

The window issue, yeah, I thought that was just a window that was too small. However, later on in your video, you actually made it through no problem. What this tells me is, either you weren't pressing the right buttons (forget to hold W when you jumped maybe?), were ever so slightly out of the proper position to trigger the vaulting prompt (this happens to me ALL the time with grappling hooks), or the game just totally hates you and decided to bug out at that point. After looking at the video, I'm leaning towards the improper placement, which is a fault of Ubisoft since their environmental triggers are wonky in numerous other places as well.

As for when the base goes on alert and seem to know exactly where you're at, I don't think they're running AT you, but rather, they're just running in your general direction. For example, when you did the take down on the armored guard after finally jumping through the window, that was because someone (Judge maybe?) heard the kill, alerted the base, and then rushed into the room to find out what the commotion was. This actually doubles as many of the other people arguing that stealth is broken because it's TOO easy. You were crouched down and stealthed. The kill was heard, but you weren't. The other guards, now on alert, rushed towards the body to find out what happened. That first one stood RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU but couldn't see you because of awesome ninja super stealth that you have. Then you rushed up, wailed on him and killed him as the rest of the guards came in AND THEN they began to see you, at which point you were already overwhelmed.

One of the earlier attempts, it happened again. Someone found a body. You can hear them cry out right before the base goes on alert. All the guards started running, but there were only a couple of directions they could go, and one of them happened to be to run right past where you were hiding behind the box. You prepped with explodey arrows, popped out, and fired an arrow at them while you were still hidden. They then QUICKLY noticed you, because you knocked yourself on your ass with the close range explosion, and at that point, were again overwhelmed. You were still hidden up until that point, but, as soon as they started to run in your derection, you immediately reacted. It's possible, though probably not likely given your position, that they may have just ran right past you and not noticed you, as I believe they were running over to check the body of the guard you distracted with a rock (I don't know if he was the one discovered, but the guards were running in that direction, so that's my guess.).

My advice is to flat out REMOVE those bodies as best you can. Either with the alien gun (Magnapulse? I don't remember what it's called.) or simply pick up the body and run about 50 yards back into the forest, or on the other side of a hill or something, and then dump it there, then return to continue your mission. It can be a pain in the ass, but by removing the bodies equation made stealthing INFINITELY easier for me, to the point that it's really a joke as I keep running into those situations where someone hears a kill, and then stands right next to me going staring at his dead comrade unable to figure out who did it.

All in all, most of your examples can be explained or at least POSSIBLY explained, BUT! most of them also shouldn't really be an issue because the stealth isn't very well polished and that leads to these issues you're having. And THAT lands squarely on Ubisoft's shoulders.

Unless it's all the Judges. In which case, ♥♥♥♥ the Judges.

I've been messing about some more, and the judges can definitely detect you through walls. It feels like they have a sense of smell. Another thing I've noticed is that enemies will notice an alarm has been destroyed if you smash it, so if you shoot an alarm with your ranged weapon, you need to kill everyone near it, because otherwise they'll walk past, notice it, and go on alert. They don't notice if you just turn it off. That could be a cause of some people's strange alerts.

In my experience, vaulting can be a bit inconsistent on some windows, whereas others are fine. I found one of the inconsistent ones last night, and tried vaulting in and out over and over again, and it was working like 2 out of 5 times. Whereas some windows it's every time. I'm not doing anything different, at least as far as I can tell. That doesn't usually bother me to be honest, since I very rarely want to vault through a window while stealthing. I always feel like even if it works it's going to make noise.

You're right to say that when they're alerted they probably don't know where you are. I've hid behind a counter in a room for five minutes and watched multiple enemies run right past me, and one even stand right in front of me looking at the wall to my left, but not noticing me. The more I play, the more I don't mind the new stealth mechanics. Sure, the bases go on alert at the drop of a hat, but you can still get undetected. It's just hard mode stealth now, which is actually kind of fun, and a bit of a change.

But yeah... ♥♥♥♥ the Judges. I kind of wish they'd given us something to deal with them. Like poisoned bait or just let them actually die to an arrow through the brain. :D