I am officially Team Lingering Flames.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Used it all throughout Legend cuz, yknow, BW, who cares. Switched it up for Famished on Cata, didn't care much for the general damage increase; used it on Enchanted Lair and it saved my ass from disablers like 3 times ina row. I think I like it more now as an all around fire and forget option now. Keep BW as a support/controller character, they don't need to have WHC levels of damage to be useful.

[slowdeath]

it's very fun with conflag staff

[Dagy47]

I am officialy Team play BW on CW so i have a chance to get both perks, its rly fun when that happens

[Ardariel]

Famished flames are better, when everything works smoothly.

Lingering flames are better, when everything goes wrong.

Now question is - what perk is better, one that goes well when all things are already well, or the one, that works better, when ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan?
IMO, lingering is way ahead of famished onn extended difficulties, just by virtue of igniting specials and covering up. So you can spend your attention to other pressing matters.

[Xatrion]

Eh, the only time I saw lingering be the more useful perk was in FOW. Burn, kite, repeat.

[These stairs go up!]

Use conflag, light everything on fire, lingering flames, profit.

Only time that famished becomes more useful is when using fire dot to kill armor and bosses.
Even then on bosses with regen lingering is better because it stops the regen by causing constant damage.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

I feel gaslit. I remember back in the day all sorts of threads claiming Lingering sucked, and that Famished was worth the -30% pwr to all other damage. Hell to the nah.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

I feel gaslit. I remember back in the day all sorts of threads claiming Lingering sucked, and that Famished was worth the -30% pwr to all other damage. Hell to the nah.

I think the reason why they said lingering sucks while famished was praised, was because lingering is only useful on conflag.
it doesnt do anything for bolt staff, the effect on flamestorm is neglectable, it nerfs the fireball staff and its charged spam, it completely breaks the beam and coruscation staff
With also the strongest, and easiest to use, melee being also nerfed by it (since it can dot stack, which lingering prevents).

Not to mention that lingering also nerfs your ult, so you either take Kaboom or have a worse-than-base Fire Walk (since it relies on dots stacking up to do damage).
With famished doing the whole opposite and majorly buffing the ult.
You can see how lingering would suck.

The flamsword wasnt nerfed by the downside of Famished (its heavy 1 spam). The ult wasnt nerfed by the downside.
While the beam staff was nerfed by the downside, it got the upside of doing great boss dps so having the shotgun wasnt necessary (though the beam explosion is a loss ofc).
And coruscation is in the same boat, still does amazing against berserkers/monks and maulers despite the nerf to the primary, while.. getting nothing for the secondary attack! (no I'm not joking, famished flames doesnt work on the flame geyser. Well, it only starts working if the geyser fully runs out, which... wont really affect anything in reality)

So the downside of Famished flames, pretty much did not exist at all. so it was solely a buff. And bombs were fully unaffected, damage was the same with or without it (both flame and explosive)
Meanwhile lingering would always be a nerf to your ult nomatter what, and only synergize with the conflag while offering no buffs to any other weapon. (and lingering doesnt do anything to the flamebomb)

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Emilia Tempest:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

I feel gaslit. I remember back in the day all sorts of threads claiming Lingering sucked, and that Famished was worth the -30% pwr to all other damage. Hell to the nah.

I think the reason why they said lingering sucks while famished was praised, was because lingering is only useful on conflag.
it doesnt do anything for bolt staff, the effect on flamestorm is neglectable, it nerfs the fireball staff and its charged spam, it completely breaks the beam and coruscation staff
With also the strongest, and easiest to use, melee being also nerfed by it (since it can dot stack, which lingering prevents).

Not to mention that lingering also nerfs your ult, so you either take Kaboom or have a worse-than-base Fire Walk (since it relies on dots stacking up to do damage).
With famished doing the whole opposite and majorly buffing the ult.
You can see how lingering would suck.

The flamsword wasnt nerfed by the downside of Famished (its heavy 1 spam). The ult wasnt nerfed by the downside.
While the beam staff was nerfed by the downside, it got the upside of doing great boss dps so having the shotgun wasnt necessary (though the beam explosion is a loss ofc).
And coruscation is in the same boat, still does amazing against berserkers/monks and maulers despite the nerf to the primary, while.. getting nothing for the secondary attack! (no I'm not joking, famished flames doesnt work on the flame geyser. Well, it only starts working if the geyser fully runs out, which... wont really affect anything in reality)

So the downside of Famished flames, pretty much did not exist at all. so it was solely a buff. And bombs were fully unaffected, damage was the same with or without it (both flame and explosive)
Meanwhile lingering would always be a nerf to your ult nomatter what, and only synergize with the conflag while offering no buffs to any other weapon. (and lingering doesnt do anything to the flamebomb)

sorry,, but that was definelty not true.

Only REAL nerf to lingering WAS to damage on beam staff, since you could not get out of 1st stage beam. ANd that was mainly the reason, as cancer-hands praise boss damage too much.
Lingering on ult with firewalk is main beread and butter for BW, since you isolate every pathing to your team, stuff burns, restores your ult, and you do it all over again. Taking kaboom effectivelly nulify real advantages of lingering.

Now, since beam dot is fixed, lingering works good on every staff, except firball, i guess (that sucks anyway, so who cares). You even take it with bolt, since you can still hit every needed in real fight BP, while still maintain specials burning.

olt + lingering and fire sword is my to-go build for true solo cata. It is WAY too effective to pass on. While famished... its nice to have damage, but it never there when you actually need it. And any real target on which you would want extra damage (CW/monks/bosses) are easy to kite around hwile killing everything else.

And extended dificulties (and just cata with 3 newcomers, who died) prooves how much lingering is ahead of famished when ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan.

TL;DR
Green circles was only reason why loudmothes talked against lingering.

[No emaN]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Used it all throughout Legend cuz, yknow, BW, who cares. Switched it up for Famished on Cata, didn't care much for the general damage increase; used it on Enchanted Lair and it saved my ass from disablers like 3 times ina row. I think I like it more now as an all around fire and forget option now. Keep BW as a support/controller character, they don't need to have WHC levels of damage to be useful.

Battle Wizard has a culmination of things that make her broken. Fire Sword's Heavy 1 paired with stagger temp hp, Burnout to double dip her low ult C/D, 50% power on full charged spells or 150% DoT increase. Though fire walk's trail has a 0.25 tickrate with unlimited stacks of a duration of 6 seconds. I know I've stated this long ago, get rid of Famished Flames so we won't have these redundant comparisons. Players min/maxing Battle Wizard are using her high DoT staffs with unlimited DoT stacks when using famished. It makes mindlessly spamming spells viable with her high temp gen paired with mobility ofc. I get tired of 'Sienna players' who barely spent time with her kit look up a guide, min/max'd, and mindlessly spam.

Lingering Flames is its own option being put next to famished flames for its own reasons rather than the absurd balancing decision to let FF + LF to be a combo at all in the past. Staffs like Conflagration and Flamestorm has a max DoT stack of 1. Most of the others are unlimited barring Coruscation with 6 max DoT stacks.

The staffs that greatly benefit from Lingering Flames are Beam, Flamestorm, Conflag, and I've been told Coruscation (the geyser being casted directly under the enemy could be wrong I don't dabble with that staff personally other than when I need to mindlessly clear something to get it done). Lingering Flames as an infinite DoT works best with weapons that don't apply DoTs too often, have singular DoT stack, and/or have a good tick rate and DoT dmg (it keeps the same tick rate and damage profile). With DoTs they're an offensive tool even while you're doing other roles and even on the defense. LF brings DoT utility to a build that doesn't intrinsically prioritize stacking DoTs for its damage. You get to retain your damage while having DoTs being easily being applied to groups of enemies as you can use a staff like Beam Staff to focus on priority targets like specials and elites it's a flexible pick. Instead, a beam being held down for its high DoT damage can get interrupted by a basic horde unit, think of all that time you're standing around leaving yourself vulnerable, and the your resources to upkeep that high DoT if you've been using famished.

Lingering Flames has always been the flex pick, Volcanic Force gets the ranged breakpoints on full spell charges, Famished Flames... its fun to an extent but... ugh increase the skill ceiling and floor if high DoTs are gonna be placed here.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by No emaN:

The staffs that greatly benefit from Lingering Flames are Beam, Flamestorm, Conflag, and I've been told Coruscation (the geyser being casted directly under the enemy could be wrong I don't dabble with that staff personally other than when I need to mindlessly clear something to get it done).

Coruscation always defaults to the weakest dot and its like 4.5 per tick (even if you hit the cast directly)
which makes it.. very bad. And you cannot boost the dot by "power vs X" nor enhanced power, unlike literally every other weapon that has a dot in the game. Further making it worse than just not using lingering flames with it.
especially since you can just spam two on each other (no charge required) and it pretty much doubles the rate dots are applied.

And the "on cast" dot can also be stacked, which with BW double ult can result in some very good boss damage when you just spam out the casts. (the double ult isnt for the damage, but keeping the boss inside the geysers)
Volcanic force also affects the "on cast", making the geyser the strongest only with Volcanic force. (cuz Famished flames doesnt do anything while the geyser is out, and when its gone the enemies hit are likely dead already)

[DaTank]

I too am bothered by how other people choose to play their selected career

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by DaTank:

I too am bothered by how other people choose to play their selected career

When its meta wanking, yes, otherwise doesn’t matter to me. Numbers Go Up people annoy me, particularly in games where stakes are relatively low.

[Vergil]

Just read
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2691382336

[LeftFoot]

Lingering's main utility is horde clear, as it sacrifices a massive deal of single target dps for the horde clear. This is decent in planned team comps, as it allows teammates to commit more fully to roles other than horde clear, such as elite dps, but imo is strictly worse for quickplay because it loses out on elite/boss dps. Special sniping isn't much of a factor because bolt just takes volcanic anyways.

[veracsthane]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Used it all throughout Legend cuz, yknow, BW, who cares. Switched it up for Famished on Cata, didn't care much for the general damage increase; used it on Enchanted Lair and it saved my ass from disablers like 3 times ina row. I think I like it more now as an all around fire and forget option now. Keep BW as a support/controller character, they don't need to have WHC levels of damage to be useful.

just dont forget it doesnt actually work on monsters and youll be fine. i used to use it when i was level bw and dont like it anymore. ive learned its better to not let them near in the first place and am team bolt volcans now since it kills a good 4 or 5 mobs even if you dont proc it while one shotting pretty much all elites and all specials if you do proc volcans.