Unpopular opinion: Captain Titus is a heretic (spoilers)

[Aya]

Nemeroth was probably right that Titus has a connection to the Warp. If you think about it, Captain Titus has sustained wounds that would kill most Marines and the game's health mechanics could be easily be explained away as blessings from Khorne, even if both Titus and the player were unaware of his influence.

If Relic Entertainment ever releases a Dawn of War II: Retribution DLC campaign that renders the events of Dawn of War III as non-canonical, then perhaps Titus could make an appearance as a Chaos Lord. No way that the Blood God would let a handful of Black Templars and an Inquisitor incapacitate one of his favourite warriors after he had slew a sorcerer thrice his size

[Glockzawa]

While This does make sense, I doubt its true. A heretic is somebody who WORSHIPS, The daemon gods, as well as fights against the Emperor. However; Titus does NOT worship them, nor does he fight against the emperor. Titus fights against Daemons and even kills Nemeroth. If Titus was part of the warp, and therefor; a Heratic, he would not of killed Nemeroth, nor the random daemons. While Khorne could have done that, Titus Technically did not become a heratic. Plus, why would Khorne give Titus a blessing only for Titus to fight against Khornes forces.. Its just counter acting his entire purpose of destroying Mankind. Edit: Nemeroth was probably correct because of Titus's blessing. that connected him to the warp.

Overall, Titus technically is not a Heratic, and Khorne did not give Titus a blessing. And if he did, he quickly learned that it was futile, and took it back. While he may have been able to survive all that because of the blessing, I feel as if its just dumb to even give him the blessing in the first place because of his undying will to serve the Emperor. if a 16 year old can see how stupid it is to give your enemy a blessing to make them extremely hard to kill, then a god who's thousands of years old can as well.

[OpenRoadRacer | Flame of Liberty]

Honestly? I think the exact opposite, OP. Titus is proving his worth to the Emperor, and when his time as a regular Astartes is up, Titus will ascend into his ultimate form: a Living Saint, his soul blessed by the Emperor because of his unending devotion to smiting the enemies of Man, such that he may go on to inspire others to follow his example.

Titus will then use his status as a Living Saint to reform the Ultramarines to be more open and loose about how they interpret the Codex Astartes, like Guilliman intended before they became what they are in M41.

[Aya]

Originally posted by Len:

-snip-

Chaos corruption can be pretty subtle. I think the best example of this is if in Chaos Rising, Tarkus is Lost to the Dark Gods. Unlike other characters who will be overt about their Chaos corruption, Tarkus instead thinks that his Blighted Bolter can be used to bring about the destruction of the Enemies of Man. However, his squadmates will recognize that he addresses his wargear as if it were alive, and has already fallen from grace.

As for an agent of Chaos actively fighting Chaos, you have to remember that when there aren't any humans or xenos to fight, then the ruinous powers will instead turn their weapons amongst each other. Khorne likely has a lot of enemies within the forces of Chaos too save for probably Nurgle, because the resulting bloodshed will eventually lead to decaying flesh, while the Plague God's subjects favour close combat to spread their diseases of magical nature, something that Khorne will probably respect.

In fact, Khorne would allow for Nemeroth to die simply because the Blood God hates sorcery and backstabbing, those two things being what the followers of Tzeentch are famous for. I know that the Chosen of Nemeroth are supposed to be a Chaos Undivided Warband, though Nemeroth himself seems like the type of character to lean more heavily towards Tzeentch, rather than any of the other 3 gods.

[FlippantSausage]

I mean it does provide an explanation as to why he suddenly goes running off to use an untested experimental weapon of mass destruction instead of doing what he's supposed to do.

It still kind of amuses me that he takes Drogan at his word and doesn't ask a simple question like "Hey, is using an experimental planetary scale psychic weapon a good idea? Do we......NEED to do that? I'm supposed to be securing Titans and gaining a foothold on this planet for the coming counter invasion, is going off mission to do something that might admittedly blow up the whole thing a great idea?"

Yeah, Drogan is obviously lying about his intentions but Titus just asks zero questions and goes along with it, and the result IS kind of suspicious from an outside point of view. You'd.......kind of have to assume Titus is some kind of idiot if he's NOT a heretic.

[The Breadnought]

Guys we've got a Leandros in here

[Scheinerchen]

@FlipantSausage
Drogan is an Inquisitor and no Space Marine Captain has authority about him. Not even a Chaptermaster would have that kind of power. Only another Inquisitor could judge him.
If you want to see what happens to a SMchapter that pisses of the Inquisition look up the history of the Celestial Lions......yeah orc sniper..... :-D

[Aya]

Originally posted by Scheinerchen:

If you want to see what happens to a SMchapter that pisses of the Inquisition look up the history of the Celestial Lions......yeah orc sniper..... :-D

Too bad that the Inquisition has used that lie often enough for the Green Tide to also believe in their existence. And as the Ork WAAAAGH is very capable of distorting reality around their belief systems, those same inquisitors will find themselves on the wrong end of an actual Ork Sniper's scope.

[Burnhardt]

Originally posted by Scheinerchen:

@FlipantSausage
Drogan is an Inquisitor and no Space Marine Captain has authority about him. Not even a Chaptermaster would have that kind of power. Only another Inquisitor could judge him.
If you want to see what happens to a SMchapter that pisses of the Inquisition look up the history of the Celestial Lions......yeah orc sniper..... :-D

And if you want to see what happens when the Inquisition pisses off a First Founding Space Marine Chapter, look up the Months of Shame.

The Inquisition maybe completely ruthless, but they are also not completely stupid. When it comes to interacting with Space Marine Chapters (and the First Founding Chapters in particular) a smart Inquisitor, although they technically authority over them, knows it is better to 'ask' for assistance rather than demand it.

Thrax's concern at the end of the game was that Titus may have been corrupted by Chaos, not that he had fallen to Chaos, so was presumably taken away for interrogation and purity tests. Space Marines are more likely to be sent on penance crusades, rather than outright execution anyway.

[Aya]

Originally posted by Burnhardt:

Originally posted by Scheinerchen:

@FlipantSausage
Drogan is an Inquisitor and no Space Marine Captain has authority about him. Not even a Chaptermaster would have that kind of power. Only another Inquisitor could judge him.
If you want to see what happens to a SMchapter that pisses of the Inquisition look up the history of the Celestial Lions......yeah orc sniper..... :-D

And if you want to see what happens when the Inquisition pisses off a First Founding Space Marine Chapter, look up the Months of Shame.

The Inquisition maybe completely ruthless, but they are also not completely stupid. When it comes to interacting with Space Marine Chapters (and the First Founding Chapters in particular) a smart Inquisitor, although they technically authority over them, knows it is better to 'ask' for assistance rather than demand it.

Thrax's concern at the end of the game was that Titus may have been corrupted by Chaos, not that he had fallen to Chaos, so was presumably taken away for interrogation and purity tests. Space Marines are more likely to be sent on penance crusades, rather than outright execution anyway.

I think if Thrax's ship is forced to make a resupply in an area where the barriers between the Warp and realspace were thin, then it's likely that Khorne will grant Titus the feats of strength not unlike what he has performed in Graia. Either way, I don't think Titus is locked up with Thrax. Rather, the arrest we see at the end of the game will instead result in blood being spilled in the name of the blood god

Iunno, i just can't help but think that a Khornate Titus would make for a good villain in a future Warhammer 40,000 game: An exceptional tactician thanks to his experience with the Ultramarines mixed with the insatiable bloodlust that heals his wounds. Bonus points if he somehow manages to reform the Chosen of Nemeroth into his own Khornate warband.

[OpenRoadRacer | Flame of Liberty]

Honestly, I'm more inclined to believe that Thrax will hand Titus over to the Deathwatch.

In fact, I'd love to see that. In my idea of a Space Marine sequel, Space Marine 2 would actually have a two-plot structure: the A-Plot follows Titus in his adventures with the Deathwatch, seeing him tackle all manner of new enemies like Tau, Eldar, Tyranids and Necrons; while the B-Plot would actually follow Leandros of all people, in a much more investigative psych thriller storyline, where the returning Guilliman tasks Leandros with helping him ready the Ultramarines for new Crusades and finds out about a deep corruption hiding within the Chapter, right under their own noses.

The final conclusion of the two stories would see them come together in a dramatic way. The Realm of Ultramar gets attacked by the forces of Nurgle, and Titus just happens to be posted at a relatively close Deathwatch post. Meanwhile, Leandros has successfully uncovered an Alpha Legion plot to undermine the Ultramarines and make them more rigidly follow the Codex Astartes, making them tactically inflexible in the face of new threats.

Titus and the Deathwatch fight from the outside to protect the people of Ultramar, while Leandros and Guilliman and Calgar fight from within to save the soul of their Chapter. In the end, Leandros and Titus march together with their Primarch and Chapter Master to root out the corruption that threatens to tear the Ultramarines apart.

The Alpha Legion infiltrators put up an incredible resistance, but are ultimately defeated. Afterward, Titus is taken aside by Primarch Guilliman and told of his plans for a new generation of Marines to be created by Archmagos Belisarius Cawl of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

A hypothetical Space Marine 3 would involve Titus as a newly minted Chapter Master of a new force of Marines, based off from a moon in the same system as Forgeworld Graia, having been upgraded with the best equipment that can be provided by Cawl. With new weapons and additional augmentations, Titus would lead his Marines at the tip of the spear of a new round of Crusades, bringing worlds back to the light of the Imperium. However, to stop one particularly strong Heretic force, Titus suffers wounds that even an Astartes would rarely survive. This causes his Ascension; not as a servant of Chaos, but as a Living Saint of the Emperor, an immortal soul of pure righteousness that can sweep away any Heretic before it. Titus then goes on to appear seemingly at random whenever there are Astartes in dire need, saving them from impossible situations with miraculous strength and cunning.

[Hoopy Frood]

I would argue that while Titus is absolutely not worshipping Chaos, he IS channelling it, even though he's unaware. He's extremely resilient to psychic powers and the touch of the warp, he's a devastating warrior in close combat, and when he rages and slaughters, he actually heals. Gee, I wonder whose gifts those sound like?

He wouldn't need to be worshipping Khorne personally. The warp is by its nature a finicky thing. While Nemeroth might be their champion, Tzeentch delights in seeing the prideful fall. Nemeroth hasn't specifically chosen a side, but if he ascended to daemonhood he'll have to. Finally, if the greater powers had a plant working inside the Imperium that had no idea he was working against them, well.....

This thing about Titus being made a Primaris is rubbish- I'd have seen him as Deathwatch or possibly even a Grey Knight or Inquisitorial member before he was turned into a Space Marine "Space Marine". Though if he wound up either of the latter, they'd probably find his connection.

[Aya]

Yeah, I figured that my thread aged like milk since Titus has crossed the Rubicon, meaning that he CAN'T have been tainted by Chaos. Still, I have very high doubts that Titus' resistance to warp energies is him being a blank, though that's mainly because the depictions of the Pariah gene's effects have been largely inconsistent in 40K lore. I would assume that some psychic influence has some part to play in Titus' warp resistance.

[Snugglecakes]

Shut up, Leandros.

[darth.crevette]

Originally posted by Aya (insert fancy text here):

Yeah, I figured that my thread aged like milk since Titus has crossed the Rubicon, meaning that he CAN'T have been tainted by Chaos. Still, I have very high doubts that Titus' resistance to warp energies is him being a blank, though that's mainly because the depictions of the Pariah gene's effects have been largely inconsistent in 40K lore. I would assume that some psychic influence has some part to play in Titus' warp resistance.

There's absolutely no way he could have been a blank, whichever description you go by, without anyone in the chapter noticing for the (at least) 200 years he's been in service.