Why NL of the First Claw are, canonically, one of the better renegades of the Imperium

[Mercutian]

Here are the squad members and my explanation of why the are so awesome.
-Talos Valcoran:
Truly loyal to his dad
Amazing psychic powers of forcally, the 'prophet' of the 8th legion
Soul Hunter cos he hunted down M'shen
He is the leader of the 10th company after Vandred got rekt
-Xarl
Amazing fighter
Died for his brother
Loyal to his leader
Cool helmet
-Cyrion
(actually he is not cool. he is evil)
-Uzas
Beserk but still feels brotherhood with Talos
He was once a sergeant before madness overtook him
Uses badass weaponry
-Mercutian
He is me
Wields an insane HB, also like me
He sacrificed himself for his brothers, definitely me
-Variel
Sick Apo. from the Red Corsairs warband
He follow Talos over that stupid leader, forgot his name
Actually is owed by Talos himself
-Sar Zell
Lascannon boi
Again, sacrificed himself
Pretty cool
-Ruven
Betraying evil sorcery using sicko
(that's not good, mind)
-Adhemar
Taken in by Talos
Used a Missile Launcher to help bring down a Titan
Joined First Claw but got killed by some sadist
-Vandred / Exalted
Was actually a good sergeant, the original one of 1st Claw
Was not actually evil, it was the daemon that possessed him
He bought Talos and the 10th company warband enough time to skedaddle before being blown up himself
-Decimus
The one who brought the 8th Legion back together
Inherited all First Claw's stuff, Xarl's Chainsword, a more refined Propheting-stuff from Talos, etc.

There you have it, you Raven Guard Nykona Sharrowkyn and fanatic Word Bearer worshipping lunatics. Night Lords of the First Claw are arguably the best renegade (not heretic) warriors.

[Sparrowhawk -XIX- [Raven Guard]]

Aren't the Night Lords the only renegade legion? All others are either dead, loyal, or heretic.

[Mercutian]

Aye, brother.

[Sparrowhawk -XIX- [Raven Guard]]

Then aren't they automatically the best renegade legion by process of elimination? XD

[Mercutian]

But still, they don't unly use guerilla tactics in war, they are also known for their brutality. They are one of the few Legions who will actually do what is required. In addition they got cool cosmetics

[Mercutian]

Also they are father to the loyalist chapter Carcharadons, confirmed in the book Red Tithe. Sevatar renounced his loyalty to his insane father and pleadged himself to the Emperor's will to lead the Carcharadons to war.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk -XIX- Raven Guard:

Aren't the Night Lords the only renegade legion? All others are either dead, loyal, or heretic.

Not quite. We still don't know exactly what Alpha Legion is about, as they still use "For the Emperor" as one of their battle cries. Alpha Legion also has a few elements that view themselves as working to sabotage the forces of Chaos by being "the inside man", and helping to make the Imperious stronger by getting rid of weak elements.

[Mercutian]

Well, in return for your comment, Valden, if you read the Horus Heresy novella, the Seventh Serpent, also found in Shattered Legions, they also use the "For the Emperor" battle cry that you spoke of. It is actually meant to mock the loyalists and reminding themselves of who they were and what they will be.

[Vathek1]

If anything, the Night Lords are among the worst of all the traitor/renegade legions. They aren't "better" by any definition of the word, and Talos' First Claw is just as foul as the rest of them.

Military efficiency? They don't even operate as a unified legion anymore, and they couldn't even keep it together during the Horus Heresy. At least the Word Bearers managed to mostly remain unified post-Heresy.

Morality? The Night Lords were twisted sadists even before they turned on the Emperor. Loyalty to their Primarch is nothing special, since Konrad Curze was an insane madman, hypocrite, and perhaps one of the most idiotic of all the Primarchs. He makes Lorgar look like a paragon of rationality and logic.

If you try to conquer a world by scaring everyone into compliance with some torture porn, what do you think will happen when you leave? They'll go right back to their old ways, and become even worse. You conquer worlds by showing them that life under Imperial rule is better than it was before... or that resisting the Imperium = your planet being glassed.

And don't give the excuse that Curze turned out the way he did because of his upbringing, because it doesn't hold water. Yes, Nostramo was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a world, but I'd argue that Nocturne, Cthonia, and especially Barbarus are far, far worse places to live. And yet, neither Vulkan, Horus, or Mortarion turned into sadistic torture fanatics. Come to think of it, pretty much all of the Primarchs except for Jaghtai Khan and Roboute Guilliman landed on worlds that were terrible places to live.

The Night Lords are the most evil of all the traitor legions. At least the other ones believe in something--whether that is fighting the Long War (e.g. the Iron Warriors), serving the Ruinous Powers (Word Bearers), or bringing down the corrupt Imperium (Black Legion). The Night Lords kill, torture, and maim just for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles. For them, terror was always an end in itself, not a means to an end.

They should have had a visit from the Wolves even before they turned to Horus.

If you ask me, the only "good" renegades are the Soul Drinkers. But if we want to only consider First Founding chapters, then the "best" of them would probably be the Iron Warriors, as they don't tend to be slavering Chaos-worshipping fanatics or madmen like many of the other Traitor Legions.

[Mercutian]

Originally posted by Vathek1:

If anything, the Night Lords are among the worst of all the traitor/renegade legions. They aren't "better" by any definition of the word, and Talos' First Claw is just as foul as the rest of them.

Military efficiency? They don't even operate as a unified legion anymore, and they couldn't even keep it together during the Horus Heresy. At least the Word Bearers managed to mostly remain unified post-Heresy.

Morality? The Night Lords were twisted sadists even before they turned on the Emperor. Loyalty to their Primarch is nothing special, since Konrad Curze was an insane madman, hypocrite, and perhaps one of the most idiotic of all the Primarchs. He makes Lorgar look like a paragon of rationality and logic.

If you try to conquer a world by scaring everyone into compliance with some torture porn, what do you think will happen when you leave? They'll go right back to their old ways, and become even worse. You conquer worlds by showing them that life under Imperial rule is better than it was before... or that resisting the Imperium = your planet being glassed.

And don't give the excuse that Curze turned out the way he did because of his upbringing, because it doesn't hold water. Yes, Nostramo was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a world, but I'd argue that Nocturne, Cthonia, and especially Barbarus are far, far worse places to live. And yet, neither Vulkan, Horus, or Mortarion turned into sadistic torture fanatics. Come to think of it, pretty much all of the Primarchs except for Jaghtai Khan and Roboute Guilliman landed on worlds that were terrible places to live.

The Night Lords are the most evil of all the traitor legions. At least the other ones believe in something--whether that is fighting the Long War (e.g. the Iron Warriors), serving the Ruinous Powers (Word Bearers), or bringing down the corrupt Imperium (Black Legion). The Night Lords kill, torture, and maim just for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles. For them, terror was always an end in itself, not a means to an end.

They should have had a visit from the Wolves even before they turned to Horus.

If you ask me, the only "good" renegades are the Soul Drinkers. But if we want to only consider First Founding chapters, then the "best" of them would probably be the Iron Warriors, as they don't tend to be slavering Chaos-worshipping fanatics or madmen like many of the other Traitor Legions.

i think u just hate them. u see the bad side and not the good side. hav u seen the real heretics? the possessed marine word bearers? how about the world eaters? how crazy do u think they are compared to NL? also u obviussly havent read any books about the NL by Aaron Dembski bowden.

[Mercutian]

in addition to that, nostramo was illed with rapists, murderers and cold killers on a sunless world

[Mercutian]

Not iron warrior chaos? their leader was a crazy daemon prince

[Mercutian]

if u even read the books u would know that their purpose is to bring the galaxy in on itself. becos they hated the galaxy and vice versa. indeed they may look like some crazy terror liking idiots but they hav stuff inside. xarl of 1st claw; laid down his life for team. Talos; avenged his father though he did not want to be avenged becos he loyal.