Discussion on glitching, hacking, and otherwise in Space Marine.

[-RB- Blocka]

Some say glitches are part of the game, and are a benefit to the game. Some say glitches are LITERALLY cheats/hacks. Here we'll have a discussion on the ethics and opinions on this topic.

I'll start the thread with my stance on the subject above.

First, here is an English dictionary definition of cheating.

*1. to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.*

To begin, let's examin this sentence;
(Wow I feel like I'm giving an English class...)
'To act *dishonestly or unfairly* Lets think about what those words mean.

English dictionary definition of *dishonestly*;
1. in an untrustworthy, deceitful, or insincere way.
English dictionary definition of *unfairly*;
1. in a manner that is not in accordance with the principles of equality and justice.
2. in a way that does not follow the rules of a game or sport.

Here is my opinion on this.
(Feel free to discuss more paths and opinions in the comments. Every player's opinion is valuable to the game.)

"2. in a way that does not follow the rules of a game or sport."

Regarding *rules* of the game, in my opinion; The rules are defined by the game as it is in it's *vanilla state*. Because this is how the developers made their game.
ie, no external hacks allowed, and no editing the game's files.
It is not *our game*, therefore we should not be allowed to make changes to it.
Glitches are part of the *vanilla game* that the developers made. Therefore I think glitches are not *unfair* to use in the game.

TLDR:
My opinion is that glitches are not cheats, and that hacking is bad.

We have much more to discuss, I'd just like to start talking about ethics with people here.
So please, tell me what you think, and everyone can affirm or deny our opinions here.
Thanks for reading, and coming to discuss.

[Cpt.Mortis]

then I will be the first to open this debate, 1. do not look for the definition of glitch in a normal dictionary, look for its definition of the branch where it comes (computing) .

2. The glitches are in the game but they are not from the game, they are the result of the inattention on the part of the developers, if they repair all the glitch movement, the combinations would not work.

3. It repairs what is wrong and the glitches are to repair, not so the hacks, the hack stops are not repaired.

If you want to talk about computer science, let's talk, I do not come to be insulted, just to show what I showed in my post: Glitch is cheat. http://steamcommunity.com/app/55150/discussions/0/133261370011036565/

A simple example, if a glitch will allow you to hide behind the walls and be able to shoot from there, this is cheat or not? (and when I say cheat, I mean the act of the player, who thinks about how to win).

[DeathStiX]

brah you just started a new "glitch is cheat" thread lmao

[SSSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNDDWWRRYYYYY]

Then I'll be the second one to give my opinion.

Glitches are part of a game. If they are in the vanilla version of it then they are from the game.

However, it doesn't matter if something broken comes from a third party software, files edition or if it's already implemented in the basic game. If it's broken, it's cheat (not talking about weapons here, just about moves).

As CritialHit said above, if a glitch allows you to shoot through a wall while getting full protection from it at the same time it's totaly cheating. (heavy bolter shooting from cover doesn't count since it can be headshot or damaged from splash damage)

I will use two glitches to go further into this :

1) Ledge Charge (or Edge Charge, Ledge Jump, Leeroy Jenkins Jump or whatever you want to call it)

This glitch is performed by charging / use shoulder bash on a ledge. It will project the player roughly 5 to 7 meters forward and will look like some kind of super jump. Any class able to charge can to this, assaults and tacticals alike.
The speed and distance of the jump can be increased if charging with the stun button instead of melee and whithout sprinting before (so hold W, shift + F at the last moment).

With this glitch tacticals and assaults benefit for an increased mobility, making assaults able to move around maps without using their fuel so they're fully ready for a fight when meeting the enemy. Tactical benefit from Ledge Charge by being able to reach places only attaignable by assaults so far (such as the boxy things around B on Manufactorum).

Because of Ledge Charge assaults can evade attacks and counter with more speed and play in a less predictable manner, same thing applies to tacticals. Tacticals can also ue Ledge Charge to close the distance between them and a target on a lower level of the map and start a melta rampage.

Nevertheless this technique requires quite some practice. It needs near perfect timing, a good knowledge of every map, transforming your vision of the battlefield so any ledge appears as a F-zero boost to you, and of course will make you completely open for attacks and certain death if you screw up a Ledge Charge during or near a fight.

So what does Ledge Charge do? It increases the mobility, speed and creativity of assault and tactical classes gameplay, making for more dynamic fight and new paths possibility which can end up on incredibly risky and bold choices of moves.

A new player will be surprised by such a thing when he first face it but shall be surprised by a melta corner shooter or a laser headshot evenly.

2) Kick Spam (or Chun-Li Kick)

Kick Spam is a glitch performed by spamming left and right mouse with bolt pistol in hand as a devastator. It will, as described by its name, mindlessly spam kicks until the devastator player decides to stop.
Kick Spam can also happen if the player has a plasma canon in hands and spam shift + right mouse like a squirrel high on caffeine. This will increase the speed of kicks even more, resulting in bursts or a regular flow of kicks like Chun-Li from Street Fighter enjoys to show her opponents.

This glitch makes up for almost no opportunity of getting away in close combat against devastators and will certainly result in a ridiculous death provoked by nothing more than blind spam of 2 buttons.

Kick Spam requires zero skill, timing or other possible use of a human brain, showing off ugly defenses and no respect for the player who engaged in melee.


In the case of Ledge Charge, we can see a glitch that requires skills, great timing, experience and creativity to be put to good use. It grants a boost to gameplay by adding speed, unpredictable moves (for inexperienced players ofc) and encourages for a more audacious style.
Then Kick Spam is all about mindless mouse rape, nothing beautiful to look at and complete disrespect of the opponent.

In my opinion this is an exemple of a glitch that improves the gameplay and another one that ruins it.
Ledge Charge is what I consider to be a good glitch while Kick Spam is what I consider to be a "banned" glitch.

Glitches aren't all fine nor are they all cheat. The players need to take a deep look at how glitches affect the game individualy and decide which ones are banned and allowed since the game won't evolve and no dev will decide for us.

[Cpt.Mortis]

Originally posted by Blocka:

Some say glitches are part of the game, and are a benefit to the game. Some say glitches are LITERALLY cheats/hacks. Here we'll have a discussion on the ethics and opinions on this topic.

I'll start the thread with my stance on the subject above.

First, here is an English dictionary definition of cheating.

*1. to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.*

To begin, let's examin this sentence;
(Wow I feel like I'm giving an English class...)
'To act *dishonestly or unfairly* Lets think about what those words mean.

English dictionary definition of *dishonestly*;
1. in an untrustworthy, deceitful, or insincere way.
English dictionary definition of *unfairly*;
1. in a manner that is not in accordance with the principles of equality and justice.
2. in a way that does not follow the rules of a game or sport.

Here is my opinion on this.
(Feel free to discuss more paths and opinions in the comments. Every player's opinion is valuable to the game.)

"2. in a way that does not follow the rules of a game or sport."

Regarding *rules* of the game, in my opinion; The rules are defined by the game as it is in it's *vanilla state*. Because this is how the developers made their game.
ie, no external hacks allowed, and no editing the game's files.
It is not *our game*, therefore we should not be allowed to make changes to it.
Glitches are part of the *vanilla game* that the developers made. Therefore I think glitches are not *unfair* to use in the game.

TLDR:
My opinion is that glitches are not cheats, and that hacking is bad.

We have much more to discuss, I'd just like to start talking about ethics with people here.
So please, tell me what you think, and everyone can affirm or deny our opinions here.
Thanks for reading, and coming to discuss.

Then explain the 18 glitches on my list, if you don't understand a name just say it.

[Hedgehog Prime]

Agreeing with OP. Any outside modification is a no. Using button pressing is fine

[Corvus Corax -XIX- [Raven Guard]]

These 3 threads are running in circles.

Forum threads will never change ppls playstyle.

[Cpt.Mortis]

I have denounced this thread for promoting the use of glitches and if they have read the rules of steam, they could be banned

I found something interesting in the steam discussion rules

Rules and Guidelines For Steam: Discussions, Reviews, and User Generated Content
Content Rules
Do not post any content on Steam containing the following:

Porn, inappropriate or offensive content, warez or leaked content or anything else not safe for work
Any discussion of piracy will result in a permanent ban from the Steam Community including, but not limited to:
Cracks
Key generators
Console emulators

Cheating, hacking, game exploits

we do not have anticheat in the game, but steam within its rules prohibits the use of glitches to prohibit publish movements, who wants to jump this rule is clear that is a legitimate cheater.

[-RB- Blocka]

Originally posted by TheCriticalHitUltra<XIII>:

1. do not look for the definition of glitch in a normal dictionary, look for its definition of the branch where it comes (computing) .

I agree and disaree with this. The definition may not correlate well, but I'm just starting the discussion of ethics here.

Originally posted by TheCriticalHitUltra<XIII>:

2. The glitches are in the game but they are not from the game, they are the result of the inattention on the part of the developers, if they repair all the glitch movement, the combinations would not work.

3. It repairs what is wrong and the glitches are to repair, not so the hacks, the hack stops are not repaired.

I think it's fair that everyone has their own opinion on glitching in the game. Because as the game is now, it's just like an un-managed theme park. Everyone can have their fun, but ♥♥♥♥ will get messy, and there's no Steam or Relic police to clean it up. We are people that want to help this game that we love in some way, so we the players should try to decide what is wrong and what is right so that we don't fester hatred towards our peers. THAT is (part of) what is constantly killing the game.

Originally posted by TheCriticalHitUltra<XIII>:

A simple example, if a glitch will allow you to hide behind the walls and be able to shoot from there, this is cheat or not? (and when I say cheat, I mean the act of the player, who thinks about how to win).

Personally I think this is extremely annoying and dishonorable, but it is NOT cheating. Again, the developers aren't here to fix it, so we have to live with it. It's what I call, 'playing around them', you can make them a target and use grenades, flank them, or even just avoid them all-together. They won't be helping the team if they are in one spot the entire match, it's just annoying.
Also, if you say "(and when I say cheat, I mean the act of the player, who thinks about how to win)." Then basically every single person in the game is cheating if they are thinking about ways to win... LMAO.
Thank you for your input.

[Cpt.Mortis]

Originally posted by Blocka:

Originally posted by TheCriticalHitUltra<XIII>:

A simple example, if a glitch will allow you to hide behind the walls and be able to shoot from there, this is cheat or not? (and when I say cheat, I mean the act of the player, who thinks about how to win).

Personally I think this is extremely annoying and dishonorable, but it is NOT cheating. Again, the developers aren't here to fix it, so we have to live with it. It's what I call, 'playing around them', you can make them a target and use grenades, flank them, or even just avoid them all-together. They won't be helping the team if they are in one spot the entire match, it's just annoying.
Also, if you say "(and when I say cheat, I mean the act of the player, who thinks about how to win)." Then basically every single person in the game is cheating if they are thinking about ways to win... LMAO.
Thank you for your input.

You did not understand my example, if you're behind a hidden wall, I do not know if you played exterminatus, but the weirboy can hide behind the walls, that's what I mean the only way to kill him is with a lascannon and sometimes that's not enough The wall thickness, In the same way if a player can do that depending on the thickness of the wall a lascannon could kill him, but you should always play as devastator. I think you say that it is not cheat, because you see it as a camper only that maybe its back is unprotected or a weak side where it can be harmed, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[Cpt.Mortis]

Originally posted by Blocka:

Originally posted by TheCriticalHitUltra<XIII>:

2. The glitches are in the game but they are not from the game, they are the result of the inattention on the part of the developers, if they repair all the glitch movement, the combinations would not work.

3. It repairs what is wrong and the glitches are to repair, not so the hacks, the hack stops are not repaired.

I think it's fair that everyone has their own opinion on glitching in the game. Because as the game is now, it's just like an un-managed theme park. Everyone can have their fun, but ♥♥♥♥ will get messy, and there's no Steam or Relic police to clean it up. We are people that want to help this game that we love in some way, so we the players should try to decide what is wrong and what is right so that we don't fester hatred towards our peers. THAT is (part of) what is constantly killing the game.

Do not be so sure about that, apparently you still do not read my comment on what Steam thinks of the glitchers, there is a rule on Steam and it clearly says that you can get a BAN

Originally posted by TheCriticalHitUltra<XIII>:

I have denounced this thread for promoting the use of glitches and if they have read the rules of steam, they could be banned

I found something interesting in the steam discussion rules

Rules and Guidelines For Steam: Discussions, Reviews, and User Generated Content
Content Rules
Do not post any content on Steam containing the following:

Porn, inappropriate or offensive content, warez or leaked content or anything else not safe for work
Any discussion of piracy will result in a permanent ban from the Steam Community including, but not limited to:
Cracks
Key generators
Console emulators

Cheating, hacking, game exploits

we do not have anticheat in the game, but steam within its rules prohibits the use of glitches to prohibit publish movements, who wants to jump this rule is clear that is a legitimate cheater.

If that does not change your perspective of the glitches, there is nothing else to do, the Glitch drug can only be left of its own free will.

[Constantin Valdor]

Glitches are errors of the game, errors that are not being fixed. They are part of the game, but they arent meant to be used. In every other game, players that use glitches to advantage themselves over the others are ( rightfully ) banned. Using exploits to avoiding rules of the game ( by using cheats and glitches you are breaking the game rules ) is cheating. There Is nothing to discuss on.

[Cpt.Mortis]

Originally posted by Cato Sicarius:

Glitches are errors of the game, errors that are not being fixed. They are part of the game, but they arent meant to be used. In every other game, players that use glitches to advantage themselves over the others are ( rightfully ) banned. Using exploits to avoiding rules of the game ( by using cheats and glitches you are breaking the game rules ) is cheating. There Is nothing to discuss on.

Okay, that's what I discussed here, I did the post Glitch is cheat with a list of glitches in the game and the players that use them, including the Original Poster , and Steam also prohibits glitches.

[-RB- Blocka]

Originally posted by Cato Sicarius:

Glitches are errors of the game, errors that are not being fixed. They are part of the game, but they arent meant to be used. In every other game, players that use glitches to advantage themselves over the others are ( rightfully ) banned. Using exploits to avoiding rules of the game ( by using cheats and glitches you are breaking the game rules ) is cheating. There Is nothing to discuss on.

I agree, people should be banned for abusing serious glitches in most games. Sadly, like I said, there is no way to be banned for changing the game files or simply pressing buttons to move faster in Space Marine.

Honestly, I would happily get banned for glitching if the developers - Relic/Sega - came back to improve the game and patch lots of bugs. I would also happily pay for the game in full price again, if I were banned, to play the game fairly. It would be an entirely new experience for me as, when I started playing in 2015, I learned these glitches by getting owned by people that are good at using them. The game has been immensely fun.

[Cpt.Mortis]

Originally posted by Blocka:

Originally posted by Cato Sicarius:

Glitches are errors of the game, errors that are not being fixed. They are part of the game, but they arent meant to be used. In every other game, players that use glitches to advantage themselves over the others are ( rightfully ) banned. Using exploits to avoiding rules of the game ( by using cheats and glitches you are breaking the game rules ) is cheating. There Is nothing to discuss on.

I agree, people should be banned for abusing serious glitches in most games. Sadly, like I said, there is no way to be banned for changing the game files or simply pressing buttons to move faster in Space Marine.

Of course there is a way to move fast, the legal and normal charger + roll up,Not the Glitch way that you know very well how to make.

[Constantin Valdor]

Originally posted by Blocka:

Originally posted by Cato Sicarius:

Glitches are errors of the game, errors that are not being fixed. They are part of the game, but they arent meant to be used. In every other game, players that use glitches to advantage themselves over the others are ( rightfully ) banned. Using exploits to avoiding rules of the game ( by using cheats and glitches you are breaking the game rules ) is cheating. There Is nothing to discuss on.

I agree, people should be banned for abusing serious glitches in most games. Sadly, like I said, there is no way to be banned for changing the game files or simply pressing buttons to move faster in Space Marine.

Honestly, I would happily get banned for glitching if the developers - Relic/Sega - came back to improve the game and patch lots of bugs. I would also happily pay for the game in full price again, if I were banned, to play the game fairly. It would be an entirely new experience for me as, when I started playing in 2015, I learned these glitches by getting owned by people that are good at using them. The game has been immensely fun.

So, you justify yorself for cheating saying " there Is no moderation, so i can cheat ". Fine, Relic/Sega will never ( as they recently say that ) fix/patch those problems ( and you know that ). No contents planned for a game of seven years old, played by a hundred of people. In any case, why you use them? Can't you play without them? Dont tell me " anyone use them " cause i dont have idea how to cheat, still im always in the top 3 of my team. You ( and people like you ) scare away the few people that might want to play.

There Is no moderation to the game, but you can ( by your free will, and no because of a ban ) stop cheating to improve the quality life of the people that play fairly. Or, if you like cheat so much, create private matches with your friends and cheat with them. If you cant play ( by legal means ) without get rekt, well, git gud. Winning by cheating, so much prideful i guess.