whats your opinion on gauntlet crescendo events and finales?

[Witch]

For those who are unfamiliar, a gauntlet event is a panic event with infinite hordes, like the alarm event in dead center's 3rd map.

I personally think gauntlets are good and enjoyable if done right, but very easily become unenjoyable if your map is choky and you increase the spawn rate of special infected.

[ZeroSorrow™]

A very cheap way to artificially increase difficulty, especially the gauntlet events, which are the infinite ones. They can be fun, but definitely not in the official maps. They are all way too unfun and focus on running around to collect the thing or press the button before a wall of infected corners you. The same thing sort of goes with the regular panic events. They all boil down to the exact same thing. A conveniently defendable area, typically with a minigun and some supplies. Simple yet effective, yet boring after the millionth predictable time. This goes against everything Left 4 Dead stands for. It's not supposed to be predictable, it's supposed to be a new fresh experience every single time, no matter what. These scripted events remove the only true element of RNG in terms of spawning things. That's just my opinion.

[Zadkiel]

Originally posted by ZeroSorrow™:

A very cheap way to artificially increase difficulty, especially the gauntlet events, which are the infinite ones. They can be fun, but definitely not in the official maps. They are all way too unfun and focus on running around to collect the thing or press the button before a wall of infected corners you. The same thing sort of goes with the regular panic events. They all boil down to the exact same thing. A conveniently defendable area, typically with a minigun and some supplies. Simple yet effective, yet boring after the millionth predictable time. This goes against everything Left 4 Dead stands for. It's not supposed to be predictable, it's supposed to be a new fresh experience every single time, no matter what. These scripted events remove the only true element of RNG in terms of spawning things. That's just my opinion.

Horde events were never intended to be random as its the only way to progress through the game. It all comes down to how skillful you and your teammates are at defending yourselves with little damage as possible to continue forward. Its called SCRIPTED events for a reason. L4D is not 100% random as many might think.

[MARCOSULOLPOTANINAMO]

i thinks its alright when playing online or w friends i dont really feel like its infinite when we can push through it. however in official campaigns w/ bots itll be a pain in the ass fosho.

[Bathtub Shitter]

I would prefer they be sort of like waves where you at least have a few seconds where zombies don't spawn, and biles and pipes not work nearly as well as they do to negate those events.

Just imagine cold stream if it was like this. The map likely wouldn't receive so much scrutiny.

[Banafrit™]

A bit of a cheap way to spike difficulty. The second to last chapter of Dark Carnival is especially guilty of this, and is why people search chapter 1 for the bile bomb before even trying to continue the campaign. After that, its a mission of protect the president to keep the bile bomb safe. Wish the events were more well thought out, instead of tunnels of death on Expert.

[kurochama]

As long as it's not on custom campaigns & there's either a pipe bomb or bile bomb, it's fine for me. Some custom campaigns have imbalanced gauntlets, like, there's no slight pause so zombies keep flooding, broken special infected respawn time during gauntlets (as if playing "Hard Eight" or "Special Delivery") & sometimes the mob size is more than usual. Official campaigns except Cold Stream still have quite balanced gauntlets, I think.

[Bathtub Shitter]

Originally posted by kurochama:

As long as it's not on custom campaigns & there's either a pipe bomb or bile bomb, it's fine for me. Some custom campaigns have imbalanced gauntlets, like, there's no slight pause so zombies keep flooding, broken special infected respawn time during gauntlets (as if playing "Hard Eight" or "Special Delivery") & sometimes the mob size is more than usual. Official campaigns except Cold Stream still have quite balanced gauntlets, I think.

I noticed you didn't put any happy emojis in your comment this time so this only feels right

[kurochama]

Originally posted by Grill Gamer:

Originally posted by kurochama:

As long as it's not on custom campaigns & there's either a pipe bomb or bile bomb, it's fine for me. Some custom campaigns have imbalanced gauntlets, like, there's no slight pause so zombies keep flooding, broken special infected respawn time during gauntlets (as if playing "Hard Eight" or "Special Delivery") & sometimes the mob size is more than usual. Official campaigns except Cold Stream still have quite balanced gauntlets, I think.

I noticed you didn't put any happy emojis in your comment this time so this only feels right

What the...? . Well, I simply just forgot it

[Yalbor]

It kinda sucks, not gonna lie.

[Geebanger0]

L4D2 players these days... you say you wanna play a zombie shooting game but then you go out of your way to avoid the situations that make you shoot zombies.

Infinite gauntlet events are the best type of event L4D2 has to offer, and it's not even close.

Gauntlet events:
- Progress is only made as the players move forward towards the end trigger. Players need to actively participate in the event.
- Being incapped or hurt is more impactful. Teammates might be forced to leave you behind, or have to choose between moving forward to finish the event or going back to rescue/heal you.
- Dynamic in nature, and the way it plays can change between runs. You might be forced to take an alternate route or travel at a different pace depending on what items you have at your disposal or if something like a Tank/Witch spawn occurs. Gauntlet events add more variety to the game and help keep things fresh.
- Increased difficulty. Gauntlet events add a good amount of difficulty to the game. They are NOT (as some people seem to think) unfairly difficult by default; this is only true if you play on Expert mode, which is not the standard difficulty level (again, despite what some people seem to think). Gauntlet events don't hand the player the win, but they also provide just enough pressure that you feel a sense of accomplishment upon beating them.


Holdout events:
- Progress is made even if the player alt tabs out of the game, leaves the room, and goes to do something else. You can let the survivor bots beat the event for you. Participation is passive and optional.
- Being incapped or hurt is almost meaningless, since the entire team is likely camping in the one spot and can help each other instantly. Teammates have no reason not to heal or help each other since the event is going to progress regardless of what they do. There is no decision making.
- Static in nature. I know for a fact that there's only 2 people in this thread who don't beat these events by camping in the META spot every time. For 99.9% of players, Holdout events are identical every time they're played, because there's always going to be one 'best' spot to camp, and you're almost never forced out of this spot unless everyone on the team screws up significantly multiple times.
- Pitifully easy. All of these factors combine to make holdout events very boring and easy. If you don't need to think or even really play the game, whats the point?


And that's not even mentioning holdout finales. When was the last time you genuinely had fun camping on the Death Toll pier for 10 minutes whilst your teammate with the Military Sniper kills every infected before they even get within range? The L4D1 campaigns are particularly awful in this regard since they all play out exactly the same way. No thinking required, just sit there and wait for it to be over. At the very least, L4D2 puts in a little bit of effort, with only 3/5 being Holdout finales and all of them at least offering SOMETHING to mix it up a bit (Dark Carnival is thematically fun, Swamp Fever has a double Tank fight, Hard Rain adds a bit of extra risk with the low visibility and water slowdown).

[Bathtub Shitter]

Holdouts are fine as they are.

The gauntlet crescendos in campaign are a problem because the pipe and bile stacking is too effective. The ai specials do a pitiful job of actually slowing down players alone.

On adv and expert the difficulty stems from fighting hard hitting commons and the SI at the same time and most gauntlets are so short you can stall them more than long enough to just mash w and win without shooting any commons.

Then you got coldstream out here with it's crescendos with the first one being like half a mile and the second like 2 and a half. It works for making campaign difficult but makes versus hell.

[JAiZ]

Originally posted by Geebanger0:

The L4D1 campaigns are particularly awful in this regard since they all play out exactly the same way. No thinking required, just sit there and wait for it to be over. At the very least, L4D2 puts in a little bit of effort, with only 3/5 being Holdout finales and all of them at least offering SOMETHING to mix it up a bit (Dark Carnival is thematically fun, Swamp Fever has a double Tank fight, Hard Rain adds a bit of extra risk with the low visibility and water slowdown).

Even in L4D1, with the DLCs (Crash Course and The Sacrifice) Valve tried to make sure they had something to shake up the finales (Power going out in Crash Course, and 6 waves plus the sacrificing mechanic in The Sacrifice), so it's clear that Valve knew just how boring holdout finales are, since there isn't a single Holdout finale after the original 4 campaigns came out that was a "pure" holdout.

Plain holdout finales are just really bloody boring.

[SpongebobTheHedgehog (Soul)]

It depends. Parish gauntlet finale is the best. Cold Stream gauntlets are not that great.

Tbh, what would make gauntlets better is if you could somehow stealth to avoid the gauntlet. For example, a tripwire that you have to be careful not to run over, otherwise a bunch of bells & whistles go off to alert the gauntlet horde. Map 2 of Cold Stream's gauntlet would be cooler if I could stealth at least part of it, then if I mess up, it's a mad dash the rest of the way to the safe house.

[Alaskan Catfish Hike]

Originally posted by Geebanger0:

L4D2 players these days... you say you wanna play a zombie shooting game but then you go out of your way to avoid the situations that make you shoot zombies.

Infinite gauntlet events are the best type of event L4D2 has to offer, and it's not even close.

Gauntlet events:
- Progress is only made as the players move forward towards the end trigger. Players need to actively participate in the event.
- Being incapped or hurt is more impactful. Teammates might be forced to leave you behind, or have to choose between moving forward to finish the event or going back to rescue/heal you.
- Dynamic in nature, and the way it plays can change between runs. You might be forced to take an alternate route or travel at a different pace depending on what items you have at your disposal or if something like a Tank/Witch spawn occurs. Gauntlet events add more variety to the game and help keep things fresh.
- Increased difficulty. Gauntlet events add a good amount of difficulty to the game. They are NOT (as some people seem to think) unfairly difficult by default; this is only true if you play on Expert mode, which is not the standard difficulty level (again, despite what some people seem to think). Gauntlet events don't hand the player the win, but they also provide just enough pressure that you feel a sense of accomplishment upon beating them.


Holdout events:
- Progress is made even if the player alt tabs out of the game, leaves the room, and goes to do something else. You can let the survivor bots beat the event for you. Participation is passive and optional.
- Being incapped or hurt is almost meaningless, since the entire team is likely camping in the one spot and can help each other instantly. Teammates have no reason not to heal or help each other since the event is going to progress regardless of what they do. There is no decision making.
- Static in nature. I know for a fact that there's only 2 people in this thread who don't beat these events by camping in the META spot every time. For 99.9% of players, Holdout events are identical every time they're played, because there's always going to be one 'best' spot to camp, and you're almost never forced out of this spot unless everyone on the team screws up significantly multiple times.
- Pitifully easy. All of these factors combine to make holdout events very boring and easy. If you don't need to think or even really play the game, whats the point?


And that's not even mentioning holdout finales. When was the last time you genuinely had fun camping on the Death Toll pier for 10 minutes whilst your teammate with the Military Sniper kills every infected before they even get within range? The L4D1 campaigns are particularly awful in this regard since they all play out exactly the same way. No thinking required, just sit there and wait for it to be over. At the very least, L4D2 puts in a little bit of effort, with only 3/5 being Holdout finales and all of them at least offering SOMETHING to mix it up a bit (Dark Carnival is thematically fun, Swamp Fever has a double Tank fight, Hard Rain adds a bit of extra risk with the low visibility and water slowdown).

The Dead Carnival one is particularly vile if no one bothers to restock on ammo or grab a bile/pipe if someone goes down. I think the only thing I would change off that is not having the zombies all spawn right at the end.
It would be nice if in No Mercy, at the elevator in the hospital it was a bit more than just spray and pray for about a minute and a half.