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stay somewhere high, preferably near an ammo pile and definitely near a gun
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and btw i do have the 100% gold medal acheivements so my "skill issue" really is just the lack of intrest on wanting to learn a rather repetitive mode
at no point did i say its impressive. just making a point that i can play survival. is just boring had more fun going out my way to complete the acheivement than actually playing the mode its self
and i dont normally do acheivement hunting
The first 12 minutes are scripted spawns specifically kept easy so casual players don't die immediately. The actual peak starts building after 12 minutes and plateaus at 21 minutes.
Playing Survival for 10 minutes is like playing halfway through the first map of a campaign on the lowest difficulty.
i mean iv went up to like 30-40m once or twice in the past (mostly prior to TLS) its not the fact spawns are scripted
its a Very and i mean VERY repetitive thing to do. sure things get chaotic but that doesnt change how repeitive it feels to do it goes from positioning and adaptation to just drawing out a endless horde for as long as possible
okay sure you can enjoy that fair enough but thats not me. i dont enjoy anything competitive for the same sort of reason i find meta and repeitive stratigies kinda boring
to me survival really just boils down to how well can you conserve your resources to push the limit of how long you can survive. if the team is competent (whch i wont get as id join pub lobies) then pushing up to like 45m becomes easy as even if the team isnt good at deadstoping as long as you clear infected easily you only die to chip damage tanks are never going to make it to a strong position unless you let it
id probably have had an hour in survival long ago if i ever botherd to commit to the mode but i dont enjoy that sort of thing
you seem to act like people disliking the mode is because people dont give it a chance when in reality its just one of the most disliked modes because it feels nothing more than a asic mutation to majority of the playerbase
even the holdout mutation is a more intresting survival design than this
id also go to something like cod zombies if im after long drawn out matches trying to push to the max over l4d2 survival
i get that its one of the most overhated modes in the game but its got a bad reputation because for most people they arent wanting to commit an hour just for the sake of reaching a high score number nevermind it takes like 15m for things to even get slightly intresting
i actually find scavenge to be one of the most hated modes for no reason and seems way more balanced for versus than actual vs
Maps like Plantation, Drains, or Rooftop are far more engaging than Parish Bridge, Cemetery, or Atrium.
With 43 official survival maps, each one having different strategies, and 4 different positions each, there's over 172 ways of playing Survival - And that's only looking at full-team rounds.
If you include trios, duos, and solos, then you've got 200+ different ways of playing to learn and master.
The only reason it's boring is cause you're not even trying to have fun, which ties in to what you said here:
The underlying fun of anything competitive, is that you have an infinite skill ceiling - You can always do better, and there's always something new to improve at.
it's the polar opposite of regular campaign mode, where you hit a wall once you find a consistent way of winning, since there's no reason to improve beyond that.
This "infinite skill ceiling" is precisely what makes many higher skill games so appealing, and keeps them alive; Rhythm games are a good example of this - You can never "finish" a rhythm game, because no matter how good you become, there's always new limits to push, goals to chase, and achievements to accomplish. You can always do better, so you always have a reason to keep playing - Survival is the same, it's infinitely replayable cause no matter how good you get, you can always do better.
Once a game is solved, it becomes boring, cause there's no reason to keep doing anything more.
That's all it boils down to for you, because you never thoroughly engaged with the mode beyond the surface level. You might as well be saying "Co-op campaign boils down to holding W", or "Versus boils down to killing the enemy before they kill you".
The skill variety issue of the general playerbase is also why most survival rounds take place within friends-only/private lobbies; Anyone who actually wants to do something seriously will seclude themself into a dedicated group, because the average player isn't going to meet the high standards that skilled players hold themselves to. Survival isn't any different from other gamemodes in that regard, nor really from any skills and hobbies in general.
This is pretty much just human nature, since teams and groups in real life rely a lot on cohesion and synergy (Think of SWAT teams, military squads, administrative teams, etc.), which just isn't reliably possible with random public players.
The main difference of Survival, compared to other modes, is that it fully encapsulates the underlying "You make do with what you have" design of L4D - It pushes that design philosophy to an extreme, since the endless nature means that every use of an item has measurable impact on your progress.
Modes like Co-op and Versus lack this, since they have a clearly defined endpoint; It makes no difference whether you beat a campaign using every single item at your disposal, or whether you do it without using a single item, since the outcome is completely identical in both cases - In Survival, however, the outcome is drastically influenced by every micro-decision, so the things that are insignificant in co-op and Versus will actually matter a lot in Survival.
I'm not expecting everyone to like the things I like, I just expect people to have informed opinions with actual valid reasons. "It's repetitive" isn't just a bad reason, it's also plainly wrong.
If a person complains about something they haven't properly delved into, then their opinion is moot - Using myself as an example; I spent almost 200 hours playing Dead By Daylight before I decided that I hate the game; I didn't enjoy it from the start, but my opinion would be worthless and poorly backed if I only spent a dozen hours on it.
You can't have an informed opinion on something without thoroughly interacting with it first.
The Holdout mutation is really boring and lacks replayability. The fact it has an ending means that, once you find a method to reliably reach that end, there's no reason to bother improving or getting better anymore - And with nothing new to learn or improve at, there's no reason to keep playing.
I find it ironic that you call Survival mode boring, but then say you'd rather play cod zombies, which is a million times easier and more repetitive.
I've never seen any valid complaints for the gameplay, other than the first 12 minutes being boring (Which isn't something that can be changed; Make it fun/challenging, and casuals hate it. Make it easy, and veterans hate it).
The only thing I usually see come up is how bad public lobbies are, and that's an issue with casual players being unco-ordinated and inexperienced, combined with experienced players shying away from public lobbies, since that's a waste of time.
I agree with that. I can see why scavenge (Both the gamemode and the finale type) are disliked, but all explanations just boil down to player laziness.
Most players want to win without actually having to put in any effort to deserve the win - So the fact that scavenge requires you to invest effort in order to achieve victory turns them away from it.
Not to mention that it also shifts the focus from killing/fighting (The easier stuff) to focusing on the actual objective (the harder stuff). Gauntlets are similar, but they don't take away the focus from the action.
All of this (and more reasons I can't be bothered to delve into) is why temporary holdouts are the most popular despite being the most plain and boring type of design; They require no skill or effort, so they're an easy way to be rewarded, without actually having to do anything worth rewarding.
This is sadly common for casual demographics. Look at large-team objective-based shooters, and how often players just completely ignore the objectives in favor of running off solo: They don't care about effort, skill, or accomplishment, they just want to feel like they're doing well, without actually having to put in the effort to do well.
cannot really mind what maps i mainly played but only done it due to friends rather than my own intrest i think one of the main ones i played was dead centre final tho which yea one of the easier ones but then it just kinda gave me the impression of thats what survival is like
the ammount of maps doesnt really change anything it comes down to finding the meta strategy and seeing how long you can last
fair enough these maps may be harder and push limits more which fair enough didnt consider as much but none the less i see it more as picking a dificulty or prefered map choice than an actual change in the gameplay (it really is just the part of campaign i dont enjoy drawn out defences)
as for trying to have fun i really shouldnt have to go out my way to make the game fun i should just be enjoying it in the first place
"once a game is solved it becomes boring" however theres ways to push your limits in campaign as well going in alone no bots speedruning the maps which requires self improvement to acheive so on
not only that but thats kinda what i dont like about survival its just creating the best method to draw it out as much as possible regardless of dificulty this feels really repetive
and why would i bother wanting to improve at something im not enjoying in the first place i get better and want to get better at a game because im enjoying my experience if im not enjoying it then whats the point, the whole thing of being good at the game would mean nothing to me as im not enjoying my time with the game. id rather just go to other games or vs / solo speedrun and improve that way
its a common opinion because most people just cant even get into the mode you may like the ideals of extreem high survival times and trying to push higher but most people with a game like l4d2 just want to boot up and play
playing a game to endleslly push their limits is a minority prospective of the matter and most people just see it as it is a side mode that is just hold out as long as you can
as for thurough opinion id say having put like 5 hours or more into 1 side mode isnt too bad and i think that does come down to the game at hand. i wouldnt blame people for quiting dbd 10 hours in because of the ammount of problems the game has
and even if they didnt have a throughough experience it still remains informitive with the fact dbd isnt an easy game to get into as its not new player friendly like at all and suffers from meany balance issues
even these not thurough reviews do have importance behind it
i always see you dismissing peoples prospectives regardless of what it is but your view of "they have to reach exessive hours for their opinion to matter" explains why which most people isnt willing to push themselfs into it
However you refuse to see the prospective of someone who isnt willing to commit hours at a time just to enjoy the game. i wwant to pick up a game in my spare time and have a bit of fun
i spend a lot of time playing l4d2 and dbd for this reason they are games i can pick up and play whenever i feel and enjoy with friends. especially for people who dont have a lot of free time wanting to reach comp goals isnt in their intrests
and if i was to pick holdout or survival in a casual setting holdout is more appealing
maybe its because im more likely to go into the game just to blast some zombies to kill time untill a friend comes online or something than aim for extreme high wave count
yet again you are looking at this through your own mindset than someone elses for you cod zombies is jsut waterd down l4d2 survival but for the person whos going to play something to pass the time a bit of zombies sounds more intresting to me and if im waiting for someone on l4d2 id rather go do something like rocketdude or something while waiting
you see the problem is for one 12 minutes is a significent ammount of time to some. just because you are used to it (as much as im used to sitting around 5m in vs saferrom waiting for new players to connect) doesnt mean it feels too long of an inconvinence for others
another thing being is yea a lot of these people are going to be with friends or randoms wich are going to be casual bassed and not any good at it which then yea they dont get far get bored after a few attempts and move onto something else
and people arent willing to go out their way to enter a discord and try to gather enough players or plan a set time for everyone to hop on at and play. just want to go in and have fun