I'm glad valve isn't making Back 4 Blood because their game designs are crap and lazy

[Bozo The Clown]

I get that there's always going to be a trade-off of realism vs fun in video games. I get that, but really, there's usually always a way to make things make sense in the game world and still have them be fun. A lot of the time in Valve maps it's just so clearly artificial that it really takes me out of the realism sometimes. and I'm not even talking about the literal map itself, like in areas where you can clearly see the outside/edge of the map. Stuff that really takes me out the game sometimes are just things that really never make sense in valve's map design.

Valve's map design is honestly trash and lazy and completely lacking in any sense or direction, like there's roads that lead to nowhere, and in finales like Dead Center and the sacrifice where you need to fill up something with gas cans, they don't even make sense as to why generic gas cans are there in the first place. Like, why would there be full gas cans lying around in a mall? wtf? Has Valve ever been to malls before? Plus what gun store sells automatic rifles and a ♥♥♥♥ing grenade launcher? Plus, when you do get the cola, why is the entire damn store empty with all the shelves vacant, and there's just cola lying down on the ground, completely untouched? Like really, any decent map maker would have just put some other food objects in the store to make it look like you're actually in a store getting actual coke, or at least put the Coke in a place that made sense, like in a freezer or something. It doesn't even need to be an operational freezer bc it's an abandoned store, just something for the coke to be in or make sense in. Plus why is there literally nothing in the store except for coke? wtf... In Dark Carnival, why do survivors just not climb the gates themselves instead of alerting a horde, which they know will happen?? Valve could have easily just made the gates go up to the top of the ceiling. This goes to their other games too, such as Portal 2 for instance. They've always just been a "do-the-least-amount-of-work-possible" mentality with their games. For instance in Portal 2, panels that are broken or move outwards that show their panel arm usually are just in a hollowed out box. Why? Why can't I see the other panels that are supposed to hold the level together? Instead of just putting a few more panels behind the level that made it more realistic, they just put a panel in a box with the background wall textures. Valve is just lazy.

inb4 "TL;DR XDDD NOOB STOP CRYING XDD"

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Clearly they wanted it because they never patched it out. Don't blame the player, blame the subpar developer.

Also, please use your brain before you say it has no downsides. Bhopping takes YEARS of practice. Missing one hop early means you're slowing yourself down more than you usually would if you were running normally.

You just don't understand the game enough, or you can't bhop at all and decided to ban it because of that.

Valve don't patch things like that cause they are unfortunately now considered a part of the game by the community. Some people cried to me because I had fixed some on server and they literally said "this is removed". Yeah, removed not fixed. people consider it a part of the game and valve clearly don't want to make them cry.

I would agree with Valve if this was the case, because bhopping requires actual skill. When you're timing four, five, six bhops consistantly, it just shows how good you are at timing the hops. The window of time you have is ridiculously short.

But that is not the case here. It's literally because they're lazy and don't give a single care about anything involving the game, this goes for bhopping. It is entirely Valves fault for leaving it up to the community to mess around with. Not the players who exploit it. (Which is a considerable amount of players now because they've ignored it for so long).

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Valve don't patch things like that cause they are unfortunately now considered a part of the game by the community. Some people cried to me because I had fixed some on server and they literally said "this is removed". Yeah, removed not fixed. people consider it a part of the game and valve clearly don't want to make them cry.

I would agree with Valve if this was the case, because bhopping requires actual skill.

But that is not the case here. It's literally because they're lazy and don't give a single care about anything involving the game, this goes for bhopping.

Well valve still releases some bug fixes from time to time for this game. The last bug fixes came in march 27, yet they never touch things like bhop. They ain't stupid and they know what kind of reaction the community would have if a fix like that made it live.

They have to make money to survive, and in order to do that they have to please the customers. I can't blame them for that, though they were pretty brave when they blocked mods for versus.

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

I would agree with Valve if this was the case, because bhopping requires actual skill.

But that is not the case here. It's literally because they're lazy and don't give a single care about anything involving the game, this goes for bhopping.

Well valve still releases some bug fixes from time to time for this game. The last bug fixes came in march 27, yet they never touch things like bhop. They ain't stupid and they know what kind of reaction the community would have if a fix like that made it live.

They have to make money to survive, and in order to do that they have to please the customers. I can't blame them for that, though they were pretty brave when they blocked mods for versus.

No they don't. They only fix security exploits from reports via HackerOne. This is simply to cover their own backs from say legal action.

The last update was solely mine and Tsueys responsibility because we brought the crash exploit to light. And let me remind everyone here that they couldn't even do that properly. You can still lag the game with the same command, thanks to Tsuey for testing it out.

The same argument you're making that they won't touch bhop because of community backlash is mute when they themselves took down official versus modding, that was extremely controversial. And let me again remind you that you can STILL work around the solution. Basically what Valve does is try to find the quickest and easiest solution and leave it at that.

I find it hilarious because both of said examples were as a route of me complaining, and in both examples they did half-assed attempts at fixing them.

Bhopping is too difficult to fix, meaning it requires actual work. Something that Valve isn't known for present day.

You say that they have to make money to survive, but they're swimming in cash and can't even pay moderators for their work, moderate the workshop, listen to reports, fix MASSIVE exploits that break and ruin games, plenty of animation errors, they couldn't even make Artifact a cash machine as they were intending, it's pretty sad. And it's exactly what companies like EA do. Yet Valve gets a free pass because "oh hey, we have a monopoly because of steam sales, love us!"

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Well valve still releases some bug fixes from time to time for this game. The last bug fixes came in march 27, yet they never touch things like bhop. They ain't stupid and they know what kind of reaction the community would have if a fix like that made it live.

They have to make money to survive, and in order to do that they have to please the customers. I can't blame them for that, though they were pretty brave when they blocked mods for versus.

No they don't. They only fix security exploits from reports via HackerOne. This is simply to cover their own backs from say legal action.

The last update was solely mine and Tsueys responsibility because we brought the crash exploit to light. And let me remind everyone here that they couldn't even do that properly. You can still lag the game with the same command, thanks to Tsuey for testing it out.

The same argument you're making that they won't touch bhop because of community backlash is mute when they themselves took down official versus modding, that was extremely controversial. And let me again remind you that you can STILL work around the solution. Basically what Valve does is try to find the quickest and easiest solution and leave it at that.

I find it hilarious because both of said examples were as a route of me complaining, and in both examples they did half-assed attempts at fixing them.

Bhopping is too difficult to fix, meaning it requires actual work. Something that Valve isn't known for present day.

You say that they have to make money to survive, but they're swimming in cash and can't even pay moderators for their work, moderate the workshop, listen to reports, fix MASSIVE exploits that break and ruin games, plenty of animation errors, they couldn't even make Artifact a cash machine as they were intending, it's pretty sad. And it's exactly what companies like EA do. Yet Valve gets a free pass because "oh hey, we have a monopoly because of steam sales, love us!"

Well yeah, valve definitely always go for the laziest way to make things but still. Bhop is an exploit and the community of "pros" would cry loud if it got patched. I just find it ridicoulus how a game bug can become a feature here in left 4 dead.

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

No they don't. They only fix security exploits from reports via HackerOne. This is simply to cover their own backs from say legal action.

The last update was solely mine and Tsueys responsibility because we brought the crash exploit to light. And let me remind everyone here that they couldn't even do that properly. You can still lag the game with the same command, thanks to Tsuey for testing it out.

The same argument you're making that they won't touch bhop because of community backlash is mute when they themselves took down official versus modding, that was extremely controversial. And let me again remind you that you can STILL work around the solution. Basically what Valve does is try to find the quickest and easiest solution and leave it at that.

I find it hilarious because both of said examples were as a route of me complaining, and in both examples they did half-assed attempts at fixing them.

Bhopping is too difficult to fix, meaning it requires actual work. Something that Valve isn't known for present day.

You say that they have to make money to survive, but they're swimming in cash and can't even pay moderators for their work, moderate the workshop, listen to reports, fix MASSIVE exploits that break and ruin games, plenty of animation errors, they couldn't even make Artifact a cash machine as they were intending, it's pretty sad. And it's exactly what companies like EA do. Yet Valve gets a free pass because "oh hey, we have a monopoly because of steam sales, love us!"

Well yeah, valve definitely always go for the laziest way to make things but still. Bhop is an exploit and the community of "pros" would cry loud if it got patched. I just find it ridicoulus how a game bug can become a feature here in left 4 dead.

Even if it was for the community, it still has a purpose of being skill based. That alone should warrant it being in the game. The bug is not something you can learn in a day, sure if you use some sort of script, which is a very scummy thing to do. But the main use for it takes years of practice to get consistent hops. Even timing 3 hops won't give you much speed over all compared to running, and timing just 3 can be a chore to do. There are a lot of mistakes that go into bhopping, and consistant failures end up in slowing you down more often.

Think of it this way, should they patch out Hunters being able to vertically jump upwards on a straight wall towards the maps ceiling, if there even is a wall? Or should it be patched out, because that 'wall' is invisible? It's the same principle here, it requires a bit of skill to pull off, but I'm very sure Valve didn't want you to be way high up on top of the map on an invisible ledge.

Even doing haymakers with the tank for that matter. The survivors are very overpowered, so to counteract this a little you could use your own tactics by rock and punching at the same time with the tank. It's not something that should be happening, but it's a viable strategy in Versus.

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Well yeah, valve definitely always go for the laziest way to make things but still. Bhop is an exploit and the community of "pros" would cry loud if it got patched. I just find it ridicoulus how a game bug can become a feature here in left 4 dead.

Even if it was for the community, it still has a purpose of being skill based. That alone should warrant it being in the game. The bug is not something you can learn in a day, sure if you use some sort of script, which is a very scummy thing to do. But the main use for it takes years of practice to get consistent hops. Even timing 3 hops won't give you much speed over all compared to running, and timing just 3 can be a chore to do. There are a lot of mistakes that go into bhopping, and consistant failures end up in slowing you down more often.

Think of it this way, should they patch out Hunters being able to vertically jump upwards on a straight wall towards the maps ceiling, if there even is a wall? Or should it be patched out, because that 'wall' is invisible? It's the same principle here, it requires a bit of skill to pull of, but I'm very sure Valve didn't want you to be way high up on top of the map on an invisible ledge.

It doesn't matter if it takes skill because once you master it, there is really no downside. Take a look at the shotgun m2 trick for example. That is also a bug but it actually has a downside, cause after some m2s (7 I think) the shoving gets a cooldown that gets longer the more you do it. What is bhop downside on the other hand? Once you master it you basically have a legal speedhack.

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Even if it was for the community, it still has a purpose of being skill based. That alone should warrant it being in the game. The bug is not something you can learn in a day, sure if you use some sort of script, which is a very scummy thing to do. But the main use for it takes years of practice to get consistent hops. Even timing 3 hops won't give you much speed over all compared to running, and timing just 3 can be a chore to do. There are a lot of mistakes that go into bhopping, and consistant failures end up in slowing you down more often.

Think of it this way, should they patch out Hunters being able to vertically jump upwards on a straight wall towards the maps ceiling, if there even is a wall? Or should it be patched out, because that 'wall' is invisible? It's the same principle here, it requires a bit of skill to pull of, but I'm very sure Valve didn't want you to be way high up on top of the map on an invisible ledge.

It doesn't matter if it takes skill because once you master it, there is really no downside. Take a look at the shotgun m2 trick for example. That is also a bug but it actually has a downside, cause after some m2 (7 I think) the showing gets a cooldown that gets longer the more you do it. What is bhop downside on the other hand? Once you master it you basically have a legal speedhack.

If you master it, then that just shows how much you've actually practiced in the game. It's no different that timing sniper shots against a Hunter ahead of time because the hitbox is always ahead of what you're seeing.

You're talking about half a decade (or ever longer) of bhopping here. That more than justifies keeping it in.

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

It doesn't matter if it takes skill because once you master it, there is really no downside. Take a look at the shotgun m2 trick for example. That is also a bug but it actually has a downside, cause after some m2 (7 I think) the showing gets a cooldown that gets longer the more you do it. What is bhop downside on the other hand? Once you master it you basically have a legal speedhack.

If you master it, then that just shows how much you've actually practiced in the game. It's no different that timing sniper shots against a Hunter ahead of time because the hitbox is always ahead of what you're seeing.

You're talking about half a decade of bhopping here. That more than justifies keeping it in.

Just put some speedhack on your character and have fun with it, it's the same thing as bhop. "But bhop is harder", harder or not, the end result is the same. You are having an amount of speed that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place and you are pretty much cheating.

Honestly I have more respect for people who cheat using programs than for people like you who abuse glitches. It's cheap and pathetic. If you want to cheat then do it right, instead of doing it in a cheap way like this while even claiming it to be not only a part of the game but even a legit thing to do because "it's hard".

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

If you master it, then that just shows how much you've actually practiced in the game. It's no different that timing sniper shots against a Hunter ahead of time because the hitbox is always ahead of what you're seeing.

You're talking about half a decade of bhopping here. That more than justifies keeping it in.

Just put some speedhack on your character and have fun with it, it's the same thing as bhop. "But bhop is harder", harder or not, the end result is the same. You are having an amount of speed that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place and you are pretty much cheating.

Honestly I have more respect for people who cheat using programs than for people like you who abuse glitches. It's cheap and pathetic. If you want to cheat then do it right, instead of doing it in a cheap way like this while even claiming it to be not only a part of the game but even a legit thing to do because "it's hard".

So you have more respect for people who do things like aimbot and speedhack but when somebody uses years of skill to do something you think that's worse?

That's the worst argument I've ever heard come out from these forums, maybe from any forum ever.

99% sure you just banned it because you can't learn how to bhop and that made you frustrated. I get it, just be honest about it. That'll at least give you some good trait.

[JAiZ]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

If you master it, then that just shows how much you've actually practiced in the game. It's no different that timing sniper shots against a Hunter ahead of time because the hitbox is always ahead of what you're seeing.

You're talking about half a decade of bhopping here. That more than justifies keeping it in.

harder or not, the end result is the same.

Flawless logic, now we just have to ban people with good aim, because them having better reflexes and aim is unfair towards people who don't. Valve clearly never intended anyone to efficiently one-shot infected consistently throughout the game as if they were using an aimbot.
It doesn't matter if it's harder or not since the end result is the same, right?

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por JAiZ:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

harder or not, the end result is the same.

Flawless logic, now we just have to ban people with good aim, because them having better reflexes and aim is unfair towards people who don't. Valve clearly never intended anyone to efficiently one-shot infected consistently throughout the game as if they were using an aimbot.
It doesn't matter if it's harder or not since the end result is the same, right?

Why should we ban people with good aim? That is just playing the game the way it's supposed to. I really have no idea how you can compare shooting infecteds in mid air to abusing a bug to be faster like a speedhack.

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Just put some speedhack on your character and have fun with it, it's the same thing as bhop. "But bhop is harder", harder or not, the end result is the same. You are having an amount of speed that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place and you are pretty much cheating.

Honestly I have more respect for people who cheat using programs than for people like you who abuse glitches. It's cheap and pathetic. If you want to cheat then do it right, instead of doing it in a cheap way like this while even claiming it to be not only a part of the game but even a legit thing to do because "it's hard".

99% sure you just banned it because you can't learn how to bhop and that made you frustrated. I get it, just be honest about it. That'll at least give you some good trait.

I knew you were going to say that. That is the cheapest way to respond after the usual response you have (it takes skills) gets dismounted and is of no use anymore for the argument.

Try harder, I know you can do better than that.

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por JAiZ:

Flawless logic, now we just have to ban people with good aim, because them having better reflexes and aim is unfair towards people who don't. Valve clearly never intended anyone to efficiently one-shot infected consistently throughout the game as if they were using an aimbot.
It doesn't matter if it's harder or not since the end result is the same, right?

Why should we bad people with good aim? That is just playing the game the way it's supposed to. I really have no idea how you can compare shooting infecteds in mid air to abusing a bug to be faster.

Easy. Both require skill. Case closed.

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por Sharples:

99% sure you just banned it because you can't learn how to bhop and that made you frustrated. I get it, just be honest about it. That'll at least give you some good trait.

I knew you were going to say that. That is the cheapest way to respond after the usual response you have (it takes skills) gets dismounted and is of no use anymore for the argument. Try harder, I know you can do better than that.

Hilarious, considering you do the exact same type of trollish responses, you're well known for flaming. Remember that time you got banned?

[Kenny]

Publicado originalmente por JAiZ:

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

harder or not, the end result is the same.

Valve clearly never intended anyone to efficiently one-shot infected consistently throughout the game as if they were using an aimbot.

If valve never intented people to oneshot infecteds consistently, then why did they make it so that an headshot does more damage?

[JAiZ]

Publicado originalmente por Kenny:

Publicado originalmente por JAiZ:

Valve clearly never intended anyone to efficiently one-shot infected consistently throughout the game as if they were using an aimbot.

If valve never intented people to oneshot infecteds consistently, then why did they make it so that an headshot does more damage?

if valve never intended for special infected to get stuck upon spawning, why did they make them get stuck upon spawning?

If valve never intended players to fall through an elevator, why did they make it so that you could fall through it?

If valve never intended for live special infected to teleport to players, why did they make it so that they could do that?

If valve never intended for bunnyhopping to be a thing, why did they allow air acceleration in the first place?