SCAR-L/Combat Rifle is trash

[doggun]

change my mind and give actual debate.

edit: added facts and listed sources to help debate

- SCAR-L has the same crouching accuracy as the M16 and MSR (military sniper rifle) (source from game scripts)

- The rounds from a burst are fired at 857 RPM (source from game scripts)

- Has same effective range as other ARs (source from game scripts)

- Base damage of 44 (source from game scripts)

- Reload takes 3.33 seconds,same time as MSR. (source from game .mdl files)

[Dr.Begi]

Make mod of it :v

[PapaDogg]

M16 Total damage : 1650
Ak47 Total damage : 2320
Desert Rifle Total damage : 2640

M16 movement inaccuracy : 5
Ak47 movement inaccuracy: 6
Desert Rifle movement inaccuracy : 4

M16 damage per bullet : 33
Ak47 damage per bullet : 58
Desert Rifle damage per bullet : 44

M16 clip size : 50
Ak47 clip size : 40
Desert Rifle clip size : 60

M16 : has the best performance compared to all rifles, acts like a direct upgrade of an smg but trades some fire rate and some minor accuracy penalties for a damage boost. ( Uzi does 21 damage, m16 does 33 )
Ak47 : trades accuracy, clip size, reload speed, and fire rate for overall highest damage per bullet.
Desert Rifle : Trades having 3 round burst and a reload speed matching sniper rifles for the highest accuracy, clip size, and overall damage. Basicly an unscoped military sniper with double the clip size. Situationally may conserve ammo or eat ammo faster than other weapons. Requires a higher skill cap to be utilized to it's fullest ability.

But honestly, it all comes to both personal preference and what you can find. No weapon is generally better than the other except for the case of tier 1 < tier 2 . They all have their own strengths and weaknesses that make them fit different users play styles. M16 is my personal favorite , but i've been playing around using the desert rifle quite a bit. Generally easier to land consecitive headshots at a distance with the desert rifle.

[doggun]

You describe the desert rifle as an unscoped military sniper. The thing is,a military sniper is very different from the desert rifle with its much higher base damage of 90,increased range of 8192 units,semi-automatic capability,and infinite penetration.

The two aren't really comparable,and its doubled clip size can be considered divided by 3 because of the bursts. Its situational ammo conservation also isn't really defined on what sitation would use more ammo.

[PapaDogg]

2 desert rifle rounds deal 88 damage. But the desert rifle fires in 3 round burst for 132 total vs the military snipers 90 damage bullet. Firing both weapons side by side, the desert rifle still manages to put out more damage than the military sniper due to it's burst. If you were to compare that on a head-shottable target such as a hunter, a single burst to the head would kill the hunter versus the need for 2 military sniper rounds.

Since no one knows the actual headshot damage modifier, nor do i have someone to use in a testing enviroment, based off the in game information it would seem headshots do about 2x damage. so 180 for a military sniper round and 264 for a desert rifle burst.

The range on the military sniper is a joke, because there is almost never a situation where you have open sight lines in left 4 dead 2. ( exception to the long street in the passing ) but even so, it still has fog blocking most of your sight line.

The penetration in most situations doesn't matter since commons are programmed to circle around the player they attack. The only time commons really group together are tight hallways or you managing to catch a horde climbing a fence.

Also in case you didn't notice, the military sniper has litterally half of the assault rifle ammo. 360 divided by 2 is 180. Desert rifle ammo conservation is in reliance to skill.

A skilled player with flick shots could take down 3 commons with 3 headshots in a single burst. Most weapons average 2 - 3 bullets to kill a common and don't have the high overall accuracy of the desert rifle which makes it extremely powerful in realism if you can aim. Trying to act like it's an assault rifle and holding m1 is going to kill your ammo without mercy. //Edit ( And not grant you many kills for the amount of input you just placed )

The only redeeming factors the military sniper has that realisticly is usable in every situation are the scope and it's ammo type. For whatever reason, valve made the sniper ammo type ( no not the weapons, just the ammo type ) and the magnum ammo type , ignore damage modifiers. Regardless of where you shoot with these ammo types, it will always be an instant kill //Edit ( On commons ) Even in realism, which isn't a very smart design choice. No wonder you only see snipers and magnums there anyway.

Either way, both weapons suck at close range combat. I think they should really have the desert rifle, military sniper and hunting rifle all listed as sniper rifles. But valve, come on. 3 guns that defy your own games logic? and unlimited penetration on a weapon? I don't know what to say.

[doggun]

It surely isn't a 2x multiplier - a single headshot with a sniper rifle on a hunter is an instant kill on any difficulty iirc. Sniper rifles also don't one hit kill on body shots in realism,they require about two body shots to kill.

Also,there are situations in which the range could help. I don't have measurements since I can't be bothered to decompile the maps and measure it,but one example could be in the first chapter of Dark Carnival's cliff,where you can actually snipe targets at the parking lot.

As for the 3-round burst flick,I can't see it as practical. It would vary in difficulty depending on the range of the targets,and even then,the 857 RPM can make it difficult to have your crosshair on the target as it automatically fires.

[PapaDogg]

Like I said before, it's a skill based weapon. Easy to drop something thats a bit more difficult in comparison to. As a valve game, there are often a lot of hidden mechanics and skill factors between items that aren't meta. Best example I can think of off the top of my mind would be the TF2 rocket launcher. You can aim at someones feet for minimal damage, just as you can aim at the body for minimal damage with the desert rifle. Both weapons have their own mechanics, aka. rocket jumping and flick shooting. Both are easy to drop due to the learning curve, and situational gameplay. Someone who plays snipers in most games may be more accustomed to flick shots and perform a lot better than someone who does not.

I stand corrected on the ammo types. I was just informed with this information
" In non-Realism, penetrating weapons (military sniper, hunting rifle, and magnum) all get a
"penetration bonus", such that they will do at least m_iMaxHealth damage to common infected (excluding Witch who takes normal damage, and Fallen Survivor who takes iMaxHealth/2 damage) In Realism, only the magnum gets the penetration bonus. "

Weird valve design, but it is what it is.

Regardless of all these thing we've said. It comes down to being a " Preferenced weapon" All guns fit in their own catagory. Maybe a better term for the desert rifle would be an off-sniper with the reference to having sniping capabilities, but obviously isn't a 100% sniping weapon. But really. If you wanted to snipe, just use the sniper? Shotguns do a better job at clearing with penetration anyway, thanks to that beautiful spread.

I guess since you can snipe on dark carnival, enjoy that I guess? Doesn't seem like logical map design, especially with the nerfs to how high hunters can climb buildings due to the invisable barriors. I suppose thats prob the only reason why there are such limited times to be able to snipe since the hunter is the only real counter to someone scoped in.

I think this will be my last reply on the subject. Use it or don't fam, but it's not a " ♥♥♥♥ " weapon just because you don't like it. ( Or at leat it seems , based on your responses that you don't like it. )

Have a good night.

[doggun]

Good night,but I gotta say that rocket jumping is something exclusively to the Soldier. I know Demoman can sticky and grenade jump,but where I'm going with this is that these are limited abilities. Other weapons in L4D2 can also be used to flick with greater control so long as they have automatic fire capability.

Everyone has their own preferences,of course. I just believe that some weapon preferences are less versatile than others. I'm not invalidating their choice completely and forcing them to not use it - that's impossible.

[Breastie]

I think ScarL is really good mid-ground for assault rifles and sniper rifles.

[sʜᴀ]

Ain't gonna argue why since it's just a matter of preference, but to me the SCAR is the most potent and useful AR, and for two reasons.

Large magazine for player with good ammo managment
Burst canceling, which gives the weapon the highest skill ceiling of the game


And the ak is trash and the m16 is basically glorified dualies.

[doggun]

Originally posted by ################################:

Large magazine for player with good ammo managment
Burst canceling, which gives the weapon the highest skill ceiling of the game

A larger magazine isn’t for people with ammo management. Actual ammo management would come from the hunting rifle which also has a long reload time but only 15 rounds. A larger magazine requires less management,since it would take longer before you had to reload.

Burst cancelling also isn’t something that also automatically grants it the highest skill ceiling. The user would know when they’re firing,and can easily time a shove right to cancel the burst because they know when they’re about to fire.

Burst cancelling also isn’t the most practical thing. It severely reduces the rate of fire and uses shove stamina.

[JAiZ]

The ak47 is the fastest tank killer, followed by the military sniper. There's a reason pretty much every single survival strategy involves the ak47 or military sniper, simply because the ak47 has the highest overall damage output, with the military sniper being used as substitute if the ak47 doesn't spawn on the map (only exception being the parish-bridge due to ammo concerns it uses the m16 instead).
4 players with ak47's will shred a tank in 3-6 seconds, depending on focus, and even though it's rather mode specific to focus on raw damage output, it's evident those 2 guns take the cake for at least that category.
You would never get as far with other guns compared to the ak47/military sniper on their respective maps, simply because you either lack the damage, range, or overall firepower.

[doggun]

I don't deny anyone's preference,this debate is to determine whether or not the SCAR-L has any uses that other weapons can't do.

[doggun]

Originally posted by ~Ren~:

it's the same as any weapon in the game,

That's completely wrong - the SCAR-L behaves differently when compared to the other rifles. I just believe it's not different in a better way. When you say it's only as good as the person using it,I believe that the people using it aren't at their own actual full potential.

[doggun]

I only quoted the part I was replying to,I wasn't gonna quote my own quote,along with yours - that would take a lot of space and would be a wall of text.

[Breastie]

I agree. ScarL can be deadly dangerous. It's pretty much a long range assault rifle, has the highest accuracy of them all.