LOK-1 rifle is janky and feelsbadman, lets fix it

[ɩɲɳǒ {тн}]

1st, love the new weapons overall, some tweeks and modifications might be necessary but out of all the new guns the LOK-1 needs the most love.. The gameplay with this gun is janky and very long periods of not firing (while locking on and while reloading) making this officially the worst weapon to have for close range engagements as it does not have a free-fire automatic mode.

getting chewed up by aliens surrounding you? too bad, lockon takes a second or two and won't wipe out high armor enemies fast enough. want to manual fire? you've got one shot at a time and every shot has a long delay while dealing low damage. It just doesn't feel right and the other engie weps don't have anywhere near the same limitations.

On top of that, it doesn't feel like the smart system is actually targeting the fleshy bits so your headshot bonus drops literally to 0 which is another damage penalty. And just to top it off, you have very very limited ammo even with full ammo mods on. It isn't hitting the spot gentleman, but we can do better.

IDEA 1: The LOK-1 will constantly acquire targets in it's window allowing the engie to fire and lock onto targets at the same time! This would play very similar to other smartguns, where the gun literally locks onto enemies in it's scan window DURING the fight, and bullets would be directed accordingly allowing for faster paced GunPlay on the run.

IDEA 2: The LOK-1 will fire in full auto mode when no locks have yet been made, while you are firing, target locks are constantly being acquired (IDEA 1). This would greatly help against close range encounters.

IDEA 3: The longer the lock time, the more accurate the shots (fleshy bits and headshots). This would help rewards players who actually take the time to aim at specific bugs as those bugs would be dealt higher damage offsetting the damage penalty of just not firing while waiting for lockons.

IDEA 4: Fire-and-Forget mode (could be a mod or secondary gun mode), to make the gun more useful against boss battles, and use the full potential of the 'smart' system, the engie gets a long lock on an enemies fleshy bits, and all shots return to that spot for a duration requiring another re-lockon (think; The Fifth Element). As it stands getting a lock on any boss currently while not directly behind them facing the squishy bits, means you are hitting armor 99% of the time wasting what little of the ammo there is.

[Deerlobe]

I agree, its impressive what theyve achieved with its functionality but I still think it needs tweaked.

Tap firing needs to feel smoother for general movement and the gun needs at least a 50% ammo increase to keep up

[Mugman Lord]

I agree, the gun felt underwhelming, it didnt perform as good as I wanted to.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Mugman Lord:

I agree, the gun felt underwhelming, it didnt perform as good as I wanted to.

Doesn't mean it's bad, only that you had high expectations.

Originally posted by AeoN:

The gameplay with this gun is janky and very long periods of not firing (while locking on and while reloading) making this officially the worst weapon to have for close range engagements as it does not have a free-fire automatic mode.

Not every gun can do everything so I think it's a fair trade off. For CQC, the engineer has other primary.

Originally posted by AeoN:

getting chewed up by aliens surrounding you? too bad, lockon takes a second or two and won't wipe out high armor enemies fast enough.

That's why you have grenades and secondary weapons.

Originally posted by AeoN:

want to manual fire? you've got one shot at a time and every shot has a long delay while dealing low damage. It just doesn't feel right and the other engie weps don't have anywhere near the same limitations.

Other primaries have either trash RoF (not CO shotgun) or low range (not MPA shotgun, SMG), making them unable to perfom greatly in some scenarios. That's normal. As I said before, there's no weapon able to do everything. You need to keep your distance with the LOK-1 where before you needed to get close to the enemies. It's a matter of getting used to the playstyle.

Originally posted by AeoN:

On top of that, it doesn't feel like the smart system is actually targeting the fleshy bits so your headshot bonus drops literally to 0 which is another damage penalty. And just to top it off, you have very very limited ammo even with full ammo mods on. It isn't hitting the spot gentleman, but we can do better.

- You can curve your shots to aim for weakpoints. You thought the weapon would just be "aim and kill" ? Nah, you'll have to work for it to use efficiently, like other weapons.
- The engineer never was great with ammo economy. If you're spamming the lock at any given occasion, it's normal to run out. Again : secondaries, grenades, turrets. Use those too.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 1: The LOK-1 will constantly acquire targets in it's window allowing the engie to fire and lock onto targets at the same time! This would play very similar to other smartguns, where the gun literally locks onto enemies in it's scan window DURING the fight, and bullets would be directed accordingly allowing for faster paced GunPlay on the run.

Not a bad idea. Would be fun to see that as an OC sometimes.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 2: The LOK-1 will fire in full auto mode when no locks have yet been made, while you are firing, target locks are constantly being acquired (IDEA 1). This would greatly help against close range encounters.

So the SMG but better ? Yeah no.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 3: The longer the lock time, the more accurate the shots (fleshy bits and headshots). This would help rewards players who actually take the time to aim at specific bugs as those bugs would be dealt higher damage offsetting the damage penalty of just not firing while waiting for lockons.

Not needed. Just learn how to curve your shots or use armor break/seeker rounds. The current gameplay reward the players enough if they work for the headshots, just like aiming with any other weapons would.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 4: Fire-and-Forget mode (could be a mod or secondary gun mode), to make the gun more useful against boss battles, and use the full potential of the 'smart' system, the engie gets a long lock on an enemies fleshy bits, and all shots return to that spot for a duration requiring another re-lockon (think; The Fifth Element). As it stands getting a lock on any boss currently while not directly behind them facing the squishy bits, means you are hitting armor 99% of the time wasting what little of the ammo there is.

Just use seeker rounds for "fire-and-forget" while ignoring armor.
Or just run around and lock. It's not that hard to do.

[Mugman Lord]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Mugman Lord:

I agree, the gun felt underwhelming, it didnt perform as good as I wanted to.

Doesn't mean it's bad, only that you had high expectations.

Originally posted by AeoN:

The gameplay with this gun is janky and very long periods of not firing (while locking on and while reloading) making this officially the worst weapon to have for close range engagements as it does not have a free-fire automatic mode.

Not every gun can do everything so I think it's a fair trade off. For CQC, the engineer has other primary.

Originally posted by AeoN:

getting chewed up by aliens surrounding you? too bad, lockon takes a second or two and won't wipe out high armor enemies fast enough.

That's why you have grenades and secondary weapons.

Originally posted by AeoN:

want to manual fire? you've got one shot at a time and every shot has a long delay while dealing low damage. It just doesn't feel right and the other engie weps don't have anywhere near the same limitations.

Other primaries have either trash RoF (not CO shotgun) or low range (not MPA shotgun, SMG), making them unable to perfom greatly in some scenarios. That's normal. As I said before, there's no weapon able to do everything. You need to keep your distance with the LOK-1 where before you needed to get close to the enemies. It's a matter of getting used to the playstyle.

Originally posted by AeoN:

On top of that, it doesn't feel like the smart system is actually targeting the fleshy bits so your headshot bonus drops literally to 0 which is another damage penalty. And just to top it off, you have very very limited ammo even with full ammo mods on. It isn't hitting the spot gentleman, but we can do better.

- You can curve your shots to aim for weakpoints. You thought the weapon would just be "aim and kill" ? Nah, you'll have to work for it to use efficiently, like other weapons.
- The engineer never was great with ammo economy. If you're spamming the lock at any given occasion, it's normal to run out. Again : secondaries, grenades, turrets. Use those too.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 1: The LOK-1 will constantly acquire targets in it's window allowing the engie to fire and lock onto targets at the same time! This would play very similar to other smartguns, where the gun literally locks onto enemies in it's scan window DURING the fight, and bullets would be directed accordingly allowing for faster paced GunPlay on the run.

Not a bad idea. Would be fun to see that as an OC sometimes.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 2: The LOK-1 will fire in full auto mode when no locks have yet been made, while you are firing, target locks are constantly being acquired (IDEA 1). This would greatly help against close range encounters.

So the SMG but better ? Yeah no.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 3: The longer the lock time, the more accurate the shots (fleshy bits and headshots). This would help rewards players who actually take the time to aim at specific bugs as those bugs would be dealt higher damage offsetting the damage penalty of just not firing while waiting for lockons.

Not needed. Just learn how to curve your shots or use armor break/seeker rounds. The current gameplay reward the players enough if they work for the headshots, just like aiming with any other weapons would.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 4: Fire-and-Forget mode (could be a mod or secondary gun mode), to make the gun more useful against boss battles, and use the full potential of the 'smart' system, the engie gets a long lock on an enemies fleshy bits, and all shots return to that spot for a duration requiring another re-lockon (think; The Fifth Element). As it stands getting a lock on any boss currently while not directly behind them facing the squishy bits, means you are hitting armor 99% of the time wasting what little of the ammo there is.

Just use seeker rounds for "fire-and-forget" while ignoring armor.
Or just run around and lock. It's not that hard to do.

I didnt have high expectations in that regard. I really do think the gun will underperform in its current state that's all. I never said it had to be a crazy gun but ok dude, thanks for invalidating everyone's points, I am sure you feel smart doing it ill let you have your trip.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Mugman Lord:

I didnt have high expectations in that regard. I really do think the gun will underperform in its current state that's all. I never said it had to be a crazy gun but ok dude, thanks for invalidating everyone's points, I am sure you feel smart doing it ill let you have your trip.

Well, ain't that a lot of salt over nothing ?

[Deerlobe]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Mugman Lord:

I agree, the gun felt underwhelming, it didnt perform as good as I wanted to.

Doesn't mean it's bad, only that you had high expectations.

Originally posted by AeoN:

The gameplay with this gun is janky and very long periods of not firing (while locking on and while reloading) making this officially the worst weapon to have for close range engagements as it does not have a free-fire automatic mode.

Not every gun can do everything so I think it's a fair trade off. For CQC, the engineer has other primary.

Originally posted by AeoN:

getting chewed up by aliens surrounding you? too bad, lockon takes a second or two and won't wipe out high armor enemies fast enough.

That's why you have grenades and secondary weapons.

Originally posted by AeoN:

want to manual fire? you've got one shot at a time and every shot has a long delay while dealing low damage. It just doesn't feel right and the other engie weps don't have anywhere near the same limitations.

Other primaries have either trash RoF (not CO shotgun) or low range (not MPA shotgun, SMG), making them unable to perfom greatly in some scenarios. That's normal. As I said before, there's no weapon able to do everything. You need to keep your distance with the LOK-1 where before you needed to get close to the enemies. It's a matter of getting used to the playstyle.

Originally posted by AeoN:

On top of that, it doesn't feel like the smart system is actually targeting the fleshy bits so your headshot bonus drops literally to 0 which is another damage penalty. And just to top it off, you have very very limited ammo even with full ammo mods on. It isn't hitting the spot gentleman, but we can do better.

- You can curve your shots to aim for weakpoints. You thought the weapon would just be "aim and kill" ? Nah, you'll have to work for it to use efficiently, like other weapons.
- The engineer never was great with ammo economy. If you're spamming the lock at any given occasion, it's normal to run out. Again : secondaries, grenades, turrets. Use those too.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 1: The LOK-1 will constantly acquire targets in it's window allowing the engie to fire and lock onto targets at the same time! This would play very similar to other smartguns, where the gun literally locks onto enemies in it's scan window DURING the fight, and bullets would be directed accordingly allowing for faster paced GunPlay on the run.

Not a bad idea. Would be fun to see that as an OC sometimes.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 2: The LOK-1 will fire in full auto mode when no locks have yet been made, while you are firing, target locks are constantly being acquired (IDEA 1). This would greatly help against close range encounters.

So the SMG but better ? Yeah no.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 3: The longer the lock time, the more accurate the shots (fleshy bits and headshots). This would help rewards players who actually take the time to aim at specific bugs as those bugs would be dealt higher damage offsetting the damage penalty of just not firing while waiting for lockons.

Not needed. Just learn how to curve your shots or use armor break/seeker rounds. The current gameplay reward the players enough if they work for the headshots, just like aiming with any other weapons would.

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 4: Fire-and-Forget mode (could be a mod or secondary gun mode), to make the gun more useful against boss battles, and use the full potential of the 'smart' system, the engie gets a long lock on an enemies fleshy bits, and all shots return to that spot for a duration requiring another re-lockon (think; The Fifth Element). As it stands getting a lock on any boss currently while not directly behind them facing the squishy bits, means you are hitting armor 99% of the time wasting what little of the ammo there is.

Just use seeker rounds for "fire-and-forget" while ignoring armor.
Or just run around and lock. It's not that hard to do.

such a scholar!

[Terrortoma]

I mean, I run a Chemical Rounds build with the LOK-1, and this plus a biome with exploding mushroom flora, plus Volatile Guts/Exploder Infestation mutator pretty much turns the game into Airstrike Simulator 2022. What's not to like?

[phenir]

Originally posted by Deerlobe:

such a scholar!

Let's not quote long posts entirely for a 3 word response.

[Deerlobe]

Originally posted by phenir:

Originally posted by Deerlobe:

such a scholar!

Let's not quote long posts entirely for a 3 word response.

such a scholar!

[Scuzz MB]

Other than the single shot unlocked fire being about as worthless as a walk-in meat freezer in Glacial Strata, it's starting to feel like a serviceable weapon to me. The ammo is a bit sparse though. You can maybe muscle though hard ammo weapons like this and the sludge pump some of the time, but in missions types like Point Extraction and Refinery where Haz 5s greet you with welcoming parties almost the size of full swarms it's really frustrating to be down to 1/4 or less ammo before anyone on the team has even had a chance to swing a pick axe at some nitra.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by AeoN:

IDEA 1: The LOK-1 will constantly acquire targets in it's window allowing the engie to fire and lock onto targets at the same time! This would play very similar to other smartguns, where the gun literally locks onto enemies in it's scan window DURING the fight, and bullets would be directed accordingly allowing for faster paced GunPlay on the run.

This seems like a good idea. Having to pause to lock on is pretty worthless since I could just use that time to aim manually on my own. It's a little faster against groups except if you're engineer you have a secondary+turrets for groups so whatever.
It seems pretty trash both from an overall power and fun to use perspective right now so they definitely need to do something to it. I should want to use it like I do with every other new weapon, but it's just not fun.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Scuzz MB:

The ammo is a bit sparse though. You can maybe muscle though hard ammo weapons like this and the sludge pump some of the time, but in missions types like Point Extraction and Refinery where Haz 5s greet you with welcoming parties almost the size of full swarms it's really frustrating to be down to 1/4 or less ammo before anyone on the team has even had a chance to swing a pick axe at some nitra.

I've done most of my testing in Point Extraction precisely because I wanted to fight off big swarms consistently.

The Lok-1 is fine.

Originally posted by Btx360:

Speaking of the hurricane, its also pretty bad compared to the rest of gunners primaries. The lowest dps of the 3, the lowest ammo of the 3, and a similar/worse splash radius compared to the thunderhead, with the benefit of range, in a close quarters combat game (and the minigun already does that). Its not that its a trash weapon, its that its just mediocre, a solid B or C tier, and trying to compete with the 2 best primaries in the game.

The Hurricane is far from being trash as well, but I won't even bother to try to convince you otherwise. Hard to believe you're calling the AC on steroids "trash" though.

[Terrortoma]

Originally posted by Btx360:

Unless the new patch fixed it, i had sky-high expectations for that gun and it ended up being the worst one out of the 3 engineer choices by a mile, it hits like a subata (with no overclocks, dets on subata makes it pretty powerful actually), with the ammo cap of the hurricane. Its a homing peashooter with few bullets.

Speaking of the hurricane, its also pretty bad compared to the rest of gunners primaries. The lowest dps of the 3, the lowest ammo of the 3, and a similar/worse splash radius compared to the thunderhead, with the benefit of range, in a close quarters combat game (and the minigun already does that). Its not that its a trash weapon, its that its just mediocre, a solid B or C tier, and trying to compete with the 2 best primaries in the game.

Are both weapons fun? Absolutely. Do they have a tough time with anything bigger than a grunt? The lok even has a hard time with grunts. I have never swapped to breach cutter because i ran out of ammo or it just didnt do enough damage so often with any other weapon.

Have you guys actually tried a 22121 Chemical Rounds build yet? It's about as far from a pea shooter as you can get, with the stacking electrical and explosive damage on top of its regular damage, plus you deal bonus damage to shocked and burning enemies. Seeker Rounds won't do ♥♥♥♥ to bigger enemies, but Chemical Rounds OC with Electric Generator and manually doing three-round bursts, you can rip the big bois apart every three locked shots.

[Bits]

Originally posted by Kunnin Planz:

Originally posted by Btx360:

Unless the new patch fixed it, i had sky-high expectations for that gun and it ended up being the worst one out of the 3 engineer choices by a mile, it hits like a subata (with no overclocks, dets on subata makes it pretty powerful actually), with the ammo cap of the hurricane. Its a homing peashooter with few bullets.

Speaking of the hurricane, its also pretty bad compared to the rest of gunners primaries. The lowest dps of the 3, the lowest ammo of the 3, and a similar/worse splash radius compared to the thunderhead, with the benefit of range, in a close quarters combat game (and the minigun already does that). Its not that its a trash weapon, its that its just mediocre, a solid B or C tier, and trying to compete with the 2 best primaries in the game.

Are both weapons fun? Absolutely. Do they have a tough time with anything bigger than a grunt? The lok even has a hard time with grunts. I have never swapped to breach cutter because i ran out of ammo or it just didnt do enough damage so often with any other weapon.

Have you guys actually tried a 22121 Chemical Rounds build yet? It's about as far from a pea shooter as you can get, with the stacking electrical and explosive damage on top of its regular damage, plus you deal bonus damage to shocked and burning enemies. Seeker Rounds won't do ♥♥♥♥ to bigger enemies, but Chemical Rounds OC with Electric Generator and manually doing three-round bursts, you can rip the big bois apart every three locked shots.

I take back everything.

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Scuzz MB:

The ammo is a bit sparse though. You can maybe muscle though hard ammo weapons like this and the sludge pump some of the time, but in missions types like Point Extraction and Refinery where Haz 5s greet you with welcoming parties almost the size of full swarms it's really frustrating to be down to 1/4 or less ammo before anyone on the team has even had a chance to swing a pick axe at some nitra.

I've done most of my testing in Point Extraction precisely because I wanted to fight off big swarms consistently.

The Lok-1 is fine.

Originally posted by Btx360:

Speaking of the hurricane, its also pretty bad compared to the rest of gunners primaries. The lowest dps of the 3, the lowest ammo of the 3, and a similar/worse splash radius compared to the thunderhead, with the benefit of range, in a close quarters combat game (and the minigun already does that). Its not that its a trash weapon, its that its just mediocre, a solid B or C tier, and trying to compete with the 2 best primaries in the game.

The Hurricane is far from being trash as well, but I won't even bother to try to convince you otherwise. Hard to believe you're calling the AC on steroids "trash" though.

I realised it was not hurricane that sucked, but glitches, specifically salvo module not giving a damage boost, and nitroglycerin also not working properly. Though i wouldnt call it AC on steroids, Neurotoxin payload is one hell of an OC, and technically it can do more DPS than the leadstorm, plus being able to take care of swarmers, with big bertha 22111

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Btx360:

I realised it was not hurricane that sucked, but glitches, specifically salvo module not giving a damage boost, and nitroglycerin also not working properly. Though i wouldnt call it AC on steroids, Neurotoxin payload is one hell of an OC, and technically it can do more DPS than the leadstorm, plus being able to take care of swarmers, with big bertha 22111

Yeah I'm glad the glitches are getting fixed.


Let's compare the stats a little bit.

The baseline AC has 14 direct damage and 9 AoE damage, for 1.4m radius and total ammo of 550.
The baseline Hurricane has 16 direct damage and 20 AoE damage, for 1.5m radius and total ammo of 324.

While the Hurricane doesn't have the RoF of the AC, it does have a way shorter reload time (before even factoring in cancel animation). Both have a "delay" to their damage potential, one in the form of a ramping up RoF and the other in travel time of the missiles.

Where the AC has a better ammo economy, the hurricane has way more damage. The biggest stats difference overall is that the Hurricane has the heat mod on T5, which basically gives you free damage, ammo economy and potentially better AoE when shooting at packs of enemies (thanks to heat propagation and burning damage).

That's before even factoring any OC. The big thing NTP has going for itself ain't the damage but the ability to fire and forget, great ammo economy and Crowd Control. Meanwhile, the Hurricane has other options through his OC.

The Hurricane seems overall more oriented in killing enemies faster than the AC, where the AC is more about lasting longer. Overall, I think it balances out and they are on par but the Hurricane is clearly not trash.