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Hey. Here's the requested DxDiag information, hopefully it can give you some insight into what's going on!
https://pastebin.com/1jfsB3wU
I have a dedicated GPU (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M).
That's still seemingly below minimum requirement.
The game runs fine when it doesn't crash, on low graphics settings. FPS around 60, dipping when large amounts of particles are emitted (incinerated enemies, frozen explosions). Hazard 5 with four players is fine, as is Hazard 6x2.
To be clear: performance is not the problem. The problem is crashing, which happens with no correlation to what is going on in game and which only started in the middle of season 2, maybe 3-4 months ago. Prior to that, no issues.
Thank you for providing that info. I will look it over.
I do have another question for you though before I can provide the final report to you.
You have a Razer Blade Pro Laptop.
Can you please provide the information required so we can figure out which model exactly?
On the bottom of the laptop there is some information printed toward the hinge at the center of the laptop.
Can you please provide us the Model No: #.
An example of this number looks like so...
Model No.: RZ09-0196
Why is this important?
There are multiple models of Razer Blade Pro laptops all with the same name. In order to provide you with fixes and support I need to know exactly which model you got so the fixes I provide will be relevant toward your machine.
In the mean time, I will review the log you sent.
Thank you for your time.
I am still waiting to see the additional info I requested in my previous post, however, in the meantime, I have also gone over your logs, and these are things I noticed...
Note #1:
You are using a Razer laptop.
Those laptops tend to have very poor design and poor cooling of the components.
Yeah they tend to be thin and cool looking but, they aren't functional.
Poor cooling of the components can cause issues like the crashing you are seeing
when things get to hot and can't keep up.
It is my recommendation to never buy Razer laptops.
If you can provide temp data of the CPU and GPU via some logs from a program like
MSI Afterburner or something similar, that would be helpful to see if this is an issue for you.
Just something to remember for the future laptop purchases.
Note #2:
Your Processor is quite slow.
This game is highly dependent on speed on the CPU being at or above 2.4 GHz and never faltering. Speed is important for the engine to work as intended. You can get away with slower CPUs that are using newer core architectures but, the updates in architecture only get you so far sometimes. I recommend you limit the load on the CPU so it can keep up. You do this by limiting your FPS.
Your processor.
Intel Core i7-4700HQ @ 2.4 GHz
Base, All core = 2.40 GHz = Assuming there is enough power/cooling.
Turbo, Single Core only = 3.40 GHz = and is power/cooling dependent.
Since it's a Razer laptop, I am quite sure there are times when the CPU hits a temp limit and cut's performance. That loss of performance can cause the game engine to crash since the CPU can't keep up with what the game engine needs done when it needs it done.
You just barely meet the speed requirement for this game on the CPU.
I highly recommend limiting your FPS to 32 and enabling vsync while playing this game on that laptop.
This will give your processor some breathing room while playing.
If there is a sudden drop in performance due to temp limits being reached or perhaps just power draw not being sufficient, it will have room to coop.
Hopefully that stops the crashing for you but, it might be problems elsewhere but, it's definitely something to consider.
However, limiting the load on the CPU by limiting the amount of draw calls being made might fix your issue here. Every frame being drawn to the screen makes a draw call to the CPU, putting load on it.
Higher FPS = More load on the CPU + GPU. By limiting the FPS, you limit the load on the CPU + GPU. This also has the added benefit of helping temperatures stay at manageable levels as well as reduces power draw.
With your GPU, I also recommend the following...
Low settings.
1280x720 ( AKA 720p )
FPS limit of 32.
VSYNC enabled, to help smooth out the image.
Remember you have an old graphics card. One that is ancient and extremely weak by today's standards.
While technically your graphics card does support DX12, I highly recommend not using it. Stick with DX11.
GTX 860M Specifications
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/gaming-laptops/gtx-860m/specifications/
I would recommend setting the FPS limit not in game but, in the Nvidia control panel itself, as doing it that way tends to handle frame pacing much better, which makes for a much better playing experience.
Work within the limits of the hardware and you will be happy.
Exceed those limits and you will run into issues.
Just for reference the GTX 460 is the minimum requirement for this game.
Your GPU is only slightly better than it.
Your GPU is fine but, it is older, and limited. Limit that FPS to 30 and the resolution to 720p( aka 1280x720 ) and you should be solid, assuming you aren't running into any temperature issues.
GTX 460 vs GTX 860M
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-860M-vs-Nvidia-GTX-460/m8647vs2167
Note #3:
You are using a very old graphics card.
Nvidia has very poor support for older graphics cards.
522.25 is the latest driver for your graphics card.
You are using 517.48, an older driver. I recommend updating your graphics driver as that
could solve the issue.
Nvidia Driver Link ( US )
===================
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/193714/en-us/
Note #4:
One of your hard drives lacks enough free space on it to function properly.
C:\ Drive = 12% of 475 = 57. = PASS
X:\ Drive = 12% of 953 = 115( 114.36 ). = FAIL
C:\ = SAMSUNG MZMTE512HMHP-00000
X:\ = HGST HTS721010A9E630
If your game is on X:\ you might be experiencing issues because of bad sectors or something similar that the drive cannot address automatically due to a lack of proper free space on the drive.
Note #5:
You may have some messed up C++ Redistributable that the game engine needs to function properly.
Consider downloading and installing the latest versions found here on Microsoft's website.
C++ Redistributable
==================
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-US/cpp/windows/latest-supported-vc-redist?view=msvc-170
Note #6:
Consider updating the Intel chipset components in the laptop.
An easy way to do this and stay on top of it is using Intel's DSA tool.
It can be found here.
US Link
=========
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/detect.html
Note #7:
Make sure your Nvidia driver settings are default.
Make sure your Nvidia GPU is always being used and you aren't in some hybrid mode based on power draw and battery life.
You don't want the PC to swap between the Nvidia card and Intel integrated card.
Make sure your laptop is in performance mode power mode.
Windows 10 - Ensure Power State is set to Performance
Start
Settings ( Gear Icon )
System
Power and Sleep, maximize this window.
On the right on side there will be an option labeled...
Additional Power Settings.
Choose High Performance.
Make sure your Nvidia GPU is set to always be used over the Intel chip.
Windows 10: Right-click on the desktop again, and click on the Nvidia Control Panel.
After the Nvidia control panel loads up, click on the ‘Adjust Image Settings with Preview’ option on the left side menu.
In this menu, go down and select ‘Use My Preference Emphasizing:’. Then, set the slider to the left end at ‘Performance’.
Then go to the left menu again and click on ‘Manage 3D Settings’. In the section marked ‘Global Settings’, click on the drop-down menu and select your dedicated Nvidia GPU as your preferred graphics card. Then click on ‘Apply’.
Restart your computer.
Note #8:
Consider doing the following as well...
Hopefully you haven't done weird off spec stuff like messing with the registry or removing windows components...
Open an administrative powershell window and type the following command...
sfc /scannow
If it finds corrupt files, restart the PC.
If not, continue with...
dism.exe /online /cleanup-image /restorehelth
If it completes successfully, run Windows update, update, and restart the machine.
Then go to your Steam entry for the game, right click, properties, local files, Verify integrity of game files...
Then try to play the game again and see if the crashing is resolved.
=======
Hopefully something here helps you out.
I await the previously request information to give you more suggestions.
There's a product number, which I presume to be what you're looking for. It is RZ09-01171E12.
I understand it's reasonable to suspect the performance of an 8-year old gaming laptop when it comes to problems and crashes, and certainly an upgrade it is on the horizon, but I really think it is a red herring. I can play other games, certainly games that push the laptop harder and make it run hotter, without persistent CTD issues. That said, I will certainly try throttling performance to see if I can mitigate the crashing, and I'll post some temps and performance snippets so you can see where the bottleneck is (hint: it's the GPU, not the CPU). Some notes on your notes:
3. The "newer" graphics driver just came out... today. I'll update, but I don't think that's the issue.
4. X:/ is just for data/media storage, all applications are run from the C:/ SSD.
5. I have the latest visual C++ redistributable (x64 14.32.31332), but I downloaded and repaired it just in case.
6. I use Intel DSA, drivers are up-to-date.
7. I've had my computer's power settings on high performance for the last seven years. And yes, the Nvidia-GPU is forced on for DRG.
8. I've already tried "sfc /scannow" and "dism.exe /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth", no issues found.
Again, thanks for the help, and I'll reply again once I've played a bit to share some CPU/GPU temps before/after throttling the game's performance, and after testing on the lower settings for a bit to see if it still crashes.
Sure thing.
That's the one.
RZ09-01171E1
Thanks. Here a link to the firmware updates.
https://mysupport.razer.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3707
If you haven't done a BIOS Firmware update, I suggest you do.
It's not, I see problems with Razer laptops all the time and it has to do with Razer's poor design choices for their laptops. They do it on purpose for planned obsolescence and paid repairs through them. This is a company that wants you buying a laptop every few months. They don't build them quality and they don't build them to last.
What games? Are they using the same game engine as Deep Rock Galactic? My bet is they are not. Every game engine, and version of said game engine, utilize the hardware in dramatically different ways, and those different ways of being used manifest unique issues every time. Nothing is perfect.
Unreal Engine 4, tends to have loads of issues with various hardware configurations.
Yeah temp data over time for the CPU and GPU would be useful for troubleshooting. Also time stamping when you start up the game, when you start bench marking, etc, is also really useful.
I am also well aware the bottleneck is the GPU. However, your CPU is slow for the requirements of Deep Rock Galactic's game engine, you are riding the line. If your CPU can't keep up, game crashes. If you run unrestricted, aka no vsync / frame rate limit, you can run into issues in certain scenarios with certain hardware configurations, like yours.
I never claimed it was the issue. It was just something I noticed and pointed out in case you missed it. Sometimes it can help but, I even said so previously, I doubt this is the issue but, it's still something you should address just to be up to date and 100% rule out that as a possible issue.
Either way, you should always leave a minimum of 12% empty. However, it's your stuff, do what you want. I simply pointed out something I noticed.
Great, always worth a shot.
Great. This can improve performance.
Great. I mention it because you wouldn't believe how many people I run into that don't do that.
Great, yeah I figured your system was fine since it wasn't showing any errors what so ever in the logs but, you never know, it never hurts to check, and checking has fixed many a issue with people I've run into with problems on their PC.
Sounds good. Have a good day and good luck. Hopefully limiting your frame rate does the trick. I know it sucks but, that's just how things goes with stuff like this sometimes. When your hardware is limited you gotta work within the limits. 30fps+vsync isn't bad, especially when it's locked like that. Remember stick to the DX11 client, that should improve performance as well.
If you still have issues, I suspect you have some 3rd party application that isn't playing well with UE4 running. We can figure that out if the previous fixes don't work. Let me know.
I haven't done this yet; I would need to take care of a few things first in case flashing the BIOS ends up bricking my computer. Doesn't look like an update is available that would affect this situation, though.
Nothing too crazy by modern standards, things like heavily modded Skyrim, Subnautica, Diablo 2: Resurrected/Starcraft: Remastered (hilarious that these can be relatively performance hungry), Amnesia: Rebirth. All of these push my computer harder than DRG in terms of temperatures. I don't believe I've played anything recently that runs on UE4, though.
Now, test results:
Test 1 - I first ran a mission with my original settings (1080p, essentially uncapped FPS, DX12, minor ini edits to lower particle emissions) to set a baseline for performance. Note that I have tested with most of these things changed before (using DX11, reverting ini changes to default, mods on/off, etc.), and the game crashes regardless. The test was run on a hazard 5 industrial sabotage, solo without Bosco; this is a long mission, which anecdotally means the game is more likely to crash.
Here's a link to some screen shots indicating performance at different points in the level: at the start of the mission, during a hacking event, and during the Caretaker event. https://imgur.com/a/El0yllS (save or open images in new tab to see full resolution).
It took a bit over an hour to get through the level and dismantle the Caretaker, and then the game crashed 1-2 minutes into the extraction run back to the drop pod. This crash was abnormal, in that after the freeze it did not CTD, and I had to force shutdown the computer. I'm guessing this was due to either trying to screenshot the freeze, or (more likely, see below) due to the performance tracking software that was running at the same time. Unfortunately, this also means DRG's FSD log was unavailable for this crash.
Test 2 - Next I ran a mission with heavily throttled settings, per your recommendations (720p, FPS set to 32 in Nvidia control panel, DX11, minor ini edits unchanged). Again, hazard 5 industrial sabotage, solo without Bosco.
More screenshots... truly, these lower settings were hard on the eyes. https://imgur.com/a/h6LfED9 Note that the FPS did dip under 32 a few times, which was strange as my computer was handling the game very easily. I'm guessing the switch from DX12 -> DX11 probably just forced the shader cache to be rebuilt as objects were loaded or something.
Again, it took a bit over an hour, but this time no crash! Which felt good, but I have done this mission recently without crashing, so nothing definitive.
Test 3 - Same settings as test 2, hazard 5 salvage, solo without Bosco. I didn't bother with performance screenshots this time around.
Game seemed stable at first, then crashed 20-25 minutes into the level. Not much was going on at the time of the crash; a swarm had been finished off maybe 10 seconds prior. Once again, the game didn't even CTD gracefully, and this time my computer just completely shut down ~30 seconds into the freeze (which, again, meant no FSD log available). Most abnormal; without fail in the past, the game CTDs and my computer continues running just fine. I'm suspecting the performance tracking software, which I still had running from Test 2.
So it doesn't seem like heavily limiting performance is the solution. Certainly older computer hardware could still be a contributing factor, but it seems like something else is going on.
Always worth having the latest BIOS, always. If it's a laptop, you don't need to worry about bricking your system as it has a battery built into the laptop and the BIOS update takes less than 2-3 min max.
Again, totally different game engines that utilize the hardware is extremely different ways. The Skyrim engine alone is near ancient and was built for hardware decades older than what you have in that laptop. I doubt those games and their engines push the PC as hard as UE4.
You will not like this but...
After reviewing your screenshots. Your CPU is thermal throttling for sure. This is what is causing the crash. You play for a while, heat builds up, throttling occurs, CPU speed can't be maintained, and game engine can't do what it needs to on time, game crashes. While in your screenshots the current value in the screenshot is ok, at least on many of them, you definitely are hitting CPU max at times as indicated by the max value reading 98C. TJ Max on your CPU is 100C and well, the sensors are usually off by 3-5 C. So, you are definitely hitting TJ. Sorry man. You can try applying new thermal compound and seeing if that does the trick. You can also try add cooling for the CPU in some way to help but, it's not the game, it's your hardware causing the issue. At least, that is what it looks like to me after reviewing everything you've provided.
It's the typical Razer problem, overheating due to bad laptop design. Sorry man, bummers.
I appreciate your perspective, but I don't see how you can reach that conclusion given the available information. Even in the menu for Diablo 2: Resurrected, for example, the CPU can sit around 95-98 C for quite awhile without causing anything untoward to happen. Certainly UE4 is different, but when the game froze I could look at the final temperatures of the CPU, and it wasn't even close to the 90s. It was just as you see in the test images: 60s or 70s, no issues.
Combined with this is the fact that other people have the exact same problem, with the exact same error being reported by the log, with presumably different system specifications, and had the problem start at the same time (sometime shortly after the release of Season 2 Patch 4 + hotfixes). Is it possible that my hardware took a nosedive immediately after this, with symptoms only presenting in this game, and it is the same with the other reports? Yes. Is it as likely as something else going on (e.g. DRG/UE4 bug interacting with old hardware)? I doubt it.
Ultimately, we don't have to convince each other I suppose. Hopefully something gets (inadvertently?) changed with the release of Season 3 and the game returns to being stable.
Oh boy, here we go. Lol. It's all good man I will try my best to explain my reasoning to you.
You provided clear photos and testimony of your issue; You also provided a clean dxdiag...
That's how I was able to reach that conclusion. Lol.
Deep Rock Galactic Recommended and Minimum CPU Speed Requirement:
Processor: 2.4 GHz Duo/Quad - Min/Max
Your Processor:
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
Your processor is a 4 core, 8 thread CPU.
You meet the recommended requirement, however... The CPU needs to be properly cooled and perform to remain sufficient.
Your Processor's Specifications:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/75116/intel-core-i74700hq-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz/specifications.html
TJUNCTION
Junction Temperature is the maximum temperature allowed at the processor die.
100C
Your Photos:
One of the photos shows 97c and clearly indicates massive heat build up on the CPU. It could just be that you need to replace the thermal compound on the CPU heat-sink to fix your issue. To do that you will need to open up the laptop, take it apart, remove the CPU heat-sink, clean it up, clean up the fan, and put it all back together and try again.
You should never be hitting max temp like that, especially not in a game, maybe when you are benching your CPU with a heavy CPU benchmark but, a game? No. You shouldn't even be getting close to 90C, let alone ever touching that 100C mark. Something is wrong with your CPU heat-sink and how it's sitting on your CPU. Maybe it's not tight enough or again, maybe you need new thermal compound, maybe, and this is what I think it is, based on my experience working on razer laptops at my shop, razer is just not very good at designing laptops and the cooling solutions they use in them.
Again, different game engine. That game engine might be able to coop with drops in CPU performance when thermal throttling does occur. Perhaps it's now slamming all 4 cores and when the CPU temp gets high and things throttle, it recovers much faster. Different loads have different results.
Diablo 2: Resurrected CPU Requirement
Intel® Core i3-3250/AMD FX-4350
Your CPU well exceeds this requirement and the game engine isn't as sensitive to CPU speeds so, even if it does throttle... It doesn't even get fazed by it.
https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/diablo_ii_resurrected?p=168305
Intel Core i3-3250 Specifications
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/74744/intel-core-i33250-processor-3m-cache-3-50-ghz/specifications.html
You won't see the actual temperatures everything was at when it freezes up. You might see the last value the system was able to provide but, that isn't the actual value it was at when the system crashes, and chances are it registered incorrectly due to things being hot and errors being introduced. Even if the PC doesn't fully crash, the CPU was still smashed at the time. It's going to provide incorrect information until things recover.
Hacking event, 97c. Lol. It's bouncing and throttling, meaning it's having a hard time managing CPU temps. Heat builds up on the IHS and eventually it gets to a point where it just can't dissipate the heat well enough to keep CPU speed high enough, even with throttling.
You don't know they have the exact same problem. You are making an assumption they are because they are seeing a similar crash log however, I am sure there are differences that we can't see because the crash log in it's entirety wasn't provided, only the quick error reference.
It also can be indicative of both you, and others reporting the same error, experiencing the the same issue, CPU overheating. I can't say one way or the other until people provide plenty of data points, as you did, to try and troubleshoot the issue, and see if there is a common pattern.
However...
Based on what the original poster has stated...
"After 20-25 minutes, the chance for crashing increases."
- se05239
Based on what you've stated and posted.
There is a clearly established pattern.
Game works fine for a while, heat builds up on the CPU, crash.
Now I can't say that is se05239's issue since he hasn't provided me the information you provided but, I can properly infer a reasonable, and accurate, conclusion since you are both seeing a similar crash. When he provides me info like you did, I can see if that is the case or if there is indeed an issue.
Now, can I say for certain that is the issue? Well, no. I can't physically exam your laptop, or his, but, based on the evidence you've provided, my experience repairing PCs, etc...
I can infer a highly plausible, and more than likely accurate, conclusion based on the previously provided testimony and data.
CPU is overheating.
Thermal Throttling is taking place.
To much throttling, for to long, CPU Speed drops for to long, game engine crashes.
You can doubt all you want but, the evidence provided says otherwise.
Who knows, maybe there is an issue with the way the game engine is utilizing that older hardware. Even if this game worked perfectly at one point, updates change the way the game does what it does. One thing I can say for certain is your hardware shouldn't be hitting TJunction, ever, and I am pretty sure if you address that issue, you won't see the crash anymore. This is also assuming no damage has been done to the silicon from extended heat cycles for extended amounts of time, aka 8 years according to your own testimony.
Anyway I wish you luck in addressing the heat issue. Replace the thermal compound and reseat the heatsink, that should help out considerably.
Fair enough; maybe I'll give that a go this weekend or the next. Now that I think about it, I did have some problems with one of the fans earlier this year, which required some tinkering to fix. I don't think it was coincident with the start of this issue, but it could have been; hopefully it didn't cause too much damage.
Again, thanks for the advice.
Anytime.
You can also try doing something like this, if you are willing to take on a project...
1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jeLCQ62vFk
2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3fnsGHe8eE
3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NccmvNtvRgc
It's fun, and would allow you to attach your own heatsink to really cool down that chip. Improved cooling will mean vastly improved performance for you. You can also consider wiring in an ATX power Supply ensuring there is plenty of power available. No longer would you rely on the rinky dinky weaky cooling solution razer used or some laptop brick.
Something to consider for sure...
It's what I usually do with my laptops, eventually anyway.