Thoughts on DRG, Ghost Ship, and the next two years

[μuKnew]

I had a whole post on here detailing where I, personally, felt that Ghost Ship's direction has apparently changed for the worse, and my expectations for the future. It was like 2000 words and too long for people to read (not to mention, admittedly rambling), so I'm going to summarize it.
I do not feel entitled to free updates for DRG for eternity. I do feel entitled to a definitive answer to whether or not DRG is going to be getting more updates in the future. I've cut out why I don't just "take their word for it" for brevity.
Here's the gist:
If GSG does not want to support DRG in the future, that's their right. I'll be bitter about it, but that's their prerogative. If they intend to, I think they should signal that with at least a small, maintenance-type update sometime in 2025 for those in the community like myself that have had their patience worn thin. The actual features in it are not even the point, it's merely the announcement, follow-through, and apparent intent that I'm looking for, which have been lacking for GSG and various DRG IP games for the past two years in my eyes.

I've noticed throughout this thread that I'm not alone in feeling these things, and besides venting my frustrations, that was as much of a point as this thread ever wanted to make. I don't expect GSG to do a flip-turn because one rando made an angry post.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Do you guys think all those people are coordinating on a discord somewhere ? I'm pretty sure they are, at this point.

Paranoia isn't a good look

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by kestrel:

They could've easily kept doing that

Except...they couldn't keep doing that, they've said as much several times; as I'm sure you're aware.

Those kinds of major additions are exactly the kind of "cards" they describe when they call the game a teetering house of playing cards, continuing to pile more and more on will only destabilize the entire structure.

DRG wasn't built wide enough at the base to build on forever, and yeah that's their fault somewhat for being short sighted, but it's not like they could have known how successful it'd be at that time; and now there is no going back.

Which is why we get Seasons now, because adding a few new enemies, overclocks, and cosmetics; is prolly all they can safely and easily add. Like, I get that's disappointing, no one wanted DRG to live forever and keep growing more than me, but that's not realistic; the game is "feature complete" and has been for a long time.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by RaindropperinG:

Aside from that, what alternative situation would we be in, had they not chosen to go the Seasons route?

Would they simply had given us the equivalent of seasonal content, but in more frequent and less heavy updates?

Yes that's exactly what we were getting post launch and pre seasons. It was by far the best period for the game, when we were regularly getting high quality content that expanded on previous mechanics and gave us permanent, long term content

They could've easily kept doing that and the game would've continued continued thrive. nobody was asking for a seasonal update model, nobody wanted updates to be bloated with battle passes and an overbearing "villain of the week" per every two seasons that doesn't even look like it came from the same game

There was literally nothing wrong with what came before. I don't know why they felt the need to change it

The fun part is that if they had never used the word "season", you wouldn't be here ranting about it.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Except...they couldn't keep doing that, they've said as much several times; as I'm sure you're aware.

Those kinds of major additions are exactly the kind of "cards" they describe when they call the game a teetering house of playing cards, continuing to pile more and more on will only destabilize the entire structure.

DRG wasn't built wide enough at the base to build on forever, and yeah that's their fault somewhat for being short sighted, but it's not like they could have known how successful it'd be at that time; and now there is no going back.

Which is why we get Seasons now, because adding a few new enemies, overclocks, and cosmetics; is prolly all they can safely and easily add. Like, I get that's disappointing, no one wanted DRG to live forever and keep growing more than me, but that's not realistic; the game is "feature complete" and has been for a long time.

i don't blame them for not designing their first ever game without considering future expansion, that's totally fine and makes sense. i blame them for a completely pointless revamp to their means of expansion that nobody was asking for. one that prioritized short-term disposable content instead of building upon the solid foundation the game already provided

the permanent non-themed seasonal additions we've gotten over the years like new enemies, new missions, new overclocks etc is within the scope of what we were getting from U30 to U34. those are the additions that stick around, that's what people will remember, and it's stuff that benefits both new and old players. there was no reason they couldn't have stuck to doing that for the rest of time

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

The fun part is that if they had never used the word "season", you wouldn't be here ranting about it.

yes if they stuck to their old update format i wouldn't be complaining, thanks for making my point for me

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

The fun part is that if they had never used the word "season", you wouldn't be here ranting about it.

yes if they stuck to their old update format i wouldn't be complaining, thanks for making my point for me

if they did the exact same thing but kept calling them updates instead of seasons, you wouldn't have batted an eye.

The fact that you're so hellbent on thinking about seasonal content as something that isn't gonna stay, despite all of it still being in the game, is pretty telling.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by kestrel:

yes if they stuck to their old update format i wouldn't be complaining, thanks for making my point for me

if they did the exact same thing but kept calling them updates instead of seasons, you wouldn't have batted an eye.

*Loud incorrect buzzer*

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

if they did the exact same thing but kept calling them updates instead of seasons, you wouldn't have batted an eye.

The fact that you're so hellbent on thinking about seasonal content as something that isn't gonna stay, despite all of it still being in the game, is pretty telling.

why do you think my argument begins and ends at a simple change in terminology?

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by μuKnew:

By that point, it will have been 2 years since the last update to DRG with any notable content. It took DRG itself that long to go from EA to full release, and it had 2 dozen updates throughout that period.

... and they'll have brought another project through to early access, which takes roughly the same amount of time. I'm not sure why you're saying this as if it's unnatural or unusual; they're just working on something else.

And here is the real kicker: Remember the Supporter Upgrades? The DLCs that gives you the gold guns? The first one was released in 2018, right alongside the DRG EA launch. The second one? February '23. Yes, at the EXACT same time as "Ghost Ship Publishing" was announced, alongside DRG: Survivor.

Both were part of the 5th anniversary announcements if I remember correctly. A coincidence but they were working on GSP for a while before the announcement. You don't just build up a publishing brand in a week.

To be clear, it probably wasn't the developers that decided that, but rather the parent company (as of 2021), Embracer Group (Coffee Stain's parent as well). And by "stay afloat" I don't mean "make a living", but rather "make maximum possible revenue" as Embracer is a publicly traded company, and thus has legal requirements to do just that, within reason.

Publishers don't have the power to do that. Embracer was being very hands off, as the devs themselves explicitly stated. Besides; now that Embracer has folded, according to your speculations, there's no more motive for them to work on other projects.

Or to put it simply; you're wrong.

Also, there is no "legal requirement" for public companies to make "maximum possible revenue".

But why? Ghost Ship Games, as a development studio, published DRG under Coffee Stain Studios, who was also already owned by Embracer Group. If they needed a game published, Coffee Stain could take care of it, aside from minimal licensing paperwork for third party studios.

Because if they publish their own games they don't have to give Coffee Stain a 20% cut of the sales.

And what came with the supporter pack 2? A helmet that was unlike any other in the game, arguably broke the art style, and... had Ghost Ship's logo as its inspiration.

The helmet you seem to be thinking of was part of the original supporter pack, not the second one.

How it's been game of the year, labor of love, and one of the top rated games on Steam for years?

I don't think DRG ever won either of those awards, certainly not Labor of Love. In fact it's a running joke that DRG keeps not winning the award despite seven long years of active development.

Because somebody higher up realized [...]

There is no man in a swivel chair behind a desk with their face ominously cloaked in shadow. That's not how the world works. GSG cannot be puppeted as a business.

[...]June 2024 is the projected release date of Season 5: "Prelude to Rogue Core", and Season 6 is slated for 2025.[...]
[...]So they buckled down and got Season 6 in by the deadline.[...]
[...]and rely on the community's faith again to push back season 6.[...]

You seem to have gotten some numbers mixed up here, and it's making this paragraph hard to follow.

a strange axuillary publishing branch that shares the name for seemingly only publicity purposes,

It shares the name because it's the same company. It's not some ghost studio some corporate overlord put together completely separate from GSG.

[...]evident pressure from the wholly-owning parent company[...]

There is no parent company. Embracer group no longer exists and Coffee Stain does not own GSG in any way, shape, or form. That's not how publishing works.

To be UTTERLY clear, though: I am not saying "DRG is dead" or even "Rogue Core is gonna suck". I'm merely stating my dissatisfaction with the way that this entire situation is being handled [...]

I mean, most of your problems come from a fundamental misunderstanding of how game development as a business works. There's no puppet master trying to control things behind the scenes. There's no greedy mastermind trying to milk DRG for profit.

how GSG's vibe has been to slowly distance itself from DRG without any clear communication, and my concern that Ghost Ship, as a name, and GSG as a company seems to be only getting more and more corporate and opaque.

What do you want them to say that hasn't already been said? They've been communicating very frequently, it's just that there's nothing DRG-related to communicate about at the moment.

GSP has outlived the benefit of the doubt, in my eyes, and seems to only be there to increase profits using the Ghost Ship name.

God forbid the people at Ghost Ship devote time to supporting indie projects. DRG as an entity would not exist without Coffee Stain publishing it. Publishers are vital for indie developers, especially those on their first game, and Ghost Ship Publishing is making an effort to bring visibility towards projects they have faith in.

I have my concerns that Rogue Core and later GSG games are going to become increasingly less like DRG[...]

Your concerns are unfounded.

I do expect that we are going to start to see corporate intent seeping into the "cracks" of DRG, seeking to grow and split it open from inside.

You keep using the word "corporate" like there's some shadow organization trying to exploit DRG. There is no such "corporate" here. If you're under the impression that GSG and all employees of are somehow slaves to The Company, then you need to do some more research on how businesses work. If you're well informed and still think this, then you never had faith in GSG in the first place.

[Tyyne]

Well I guess the bait worked quite nicely, fellas.

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by Tyyne:

Well I guess the bait worked quite nicely, fellas.

Well, they put so much effort into it. We need to show all those other trolls that high effort gets high returns.

[Tyyne]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Originally posted by Tyyne:

Well I guess the bait worked quite nicely, fellas.

Well, they put so much effort into it. We need to show all those other trolls that high effort gets high returns.

Ah, true. I wish I had a monocle emote for this.

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by kestrel:

i don't blame them for not designing their first ever game without considering future expansion, that's totally fine and makes sense. i blame them for a completely pointless revamp to their means of expansion that nobody was asking for. one that prioritized short-term disposable content instead of building upon the solid foundation the game already provided

the permanent non-themed seasonal additions we've gotten over the years like new enemies, new missions, new overclocks etc is within the scope of what we were getting from U30 to U34. those are the additions that stick around, that's what people will remember, and it's stuff that benefits both new and old players. there was no reason they couldn't have stuck to doing that for the rest of time

What I'm saying is that the scope of the updates would have shrunk regardless, because they had to seasons or not.

Aside from that I guess we just have different opinions on the Seasonal content, personally I enjoyed it, after spending so long with base DRG; shaking up the status quo was refreshing for me.

I think it's a little unfair to call it disposable content though, since it does stick around for the most part; especially now that people can host specific seasons.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

if they did the exact same thing but kept calling them updates instead of seasons, you wouldn't have batted an eye.

The fact that you're so hellbent on thinking about seasonal content as something that isn't gonna stay, despite all of it still being in the game, is pretty telling.

why do you think my argument begins and ends at a simple change in terminology?

Because all your issues with the game seemingly concentrated on seasonal content.

Let's imagine for a second they never talked about seasons and kept on going with updates, but everything we have now *still* happened.
We would still have a free cosmetic pass and we would still have months of "increased thematic content spawn".

The season pass would then be called something like "employee overtime" or similar. Its whole system would remain unchanged, the UI would probably change a bit to be more in tone with some other stuff, but everything else would be the same.
New content would be dominating for a time before being toned down, as it is now. After that it would remain forever in the game just as well.


be honest now; would you still view it as "short-term disposable content" ?


I can very much understand not liking the seasonal structure for video games, especially with the bagage it has in the industry. But this is not what DRG gave us.
They're not making short-term and disposable contant, because it's still staying in the game. And the season pass isn't the paid argument.

Of course there is a business intent behind it. We're not naive and I think we can all recognize this.
Everyone out there playing video games know what a season pass is. It speaks to them immediately, for good or ill.
For the devs, it's also an opportunity to make themed DLC that people can buy to support the game, and thus make the studio keep working on their game.

But if the word "season" hadn't been used ever, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't feel the same about it. I think you have your own view on seasonal content, a negative one, and that it's shaping your entire argument but it feels like it's the form the update system took that prompted it and not its content itself.

There are discussions to be made about the content itself, about not liking it or not finding it fitting, but there's a solid argument that this was never prompted by the seasonal stuff and that it was going to happen regardless of it.

I really don't think the devs suddenly came up with rockpox just because of seasons. They came up with it and they put it into the game and that would have happened regardless of the business model of the game.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Originally posted by μuKnew:

How it's been game of the year, labor of love, and one of the top rated games on Steam for years?

I don't think DRG ever won either of those awards, certainly not Labor of Love. In fact it's a running joke that DRG keeps not winning the award despite seven long years of active development.

It did won indie game of the year once, and labor of love once. Every other time was just a nomination though.

[Tyyne]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

I think it's a little unfair to call it disposable content though, since it does stick around for the most part; especially now that people can host specific seasons.

Is there actually any (non-seasonal lol lol I mean christmas etc) content that has been removed from the game, as in 'disposed of'?