jetboots spawning mechanics are ridiculous and unfair

[kestrel]

to be clear, this thread isnt talking about the jet boots themselves. i think they're a fun addition and they add a lot to the game (when they do appear, that is)
however - it's my opinion that the way they spawn is completely antithetical to how the game works, and they actively punish a large majority of players who prefer to join games rather than host

for a start, having them be a rare object spawn is already a bad idea. i understand that their power is meant to be balanced by their rarity, i don't have any complaints there, but the fact they can show up at any point in the mission means it's fully possible for them to show up right at the end of a mission. ive found maybe 10 or so jet boots boxes since U38 began, and of those ive had exactly two appear at the start of a mission. (or at least close to it) the rest have always been most of the way through a mission when our quotas are about 2/3 complete. more than once, i've had jet boots appear after the primary objective is done or even during the escape sequence. what's even the point of unlocking them at that point? the improvements to mobility don't matter when it's faster to just get out of the cave.
my reaction to finding jet boots should be excitement, not disappointment. these things already have such a low chance to spawn, it just feels like an insult when i find them way too late into a mission to really get any use out of them

doing it this way also heavily punishes late joiners. i really have no idea why you have to equip the boots after unlocking them - they should just be given to everyone once you open the box. one time i was hosting a max length/complexity mining mission with 3/4 players. we found the boots about 1/4 the way in, and by that point the box was over 100 metres away. a fourth guy joins, and he's obviously just left out whilst we're having fun flying around. he decides to go back on his own and grab the boots for himself, but he dies all the way back at the box and now we're forced to waste our time going and picking him up
sure he shouldn't have just run off alone, but can you really blame the guy? he got arbitrarily ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over though no fault of his own. im not going to kick him just for wanting to get some jet boots of his own. all because of this asinine rule where you have to physically "equip" the boots first. it's completely ridiculous and it only serves to screw over late joiners, of whom the majority of the DRG playerbase are.

and don't say they need to be that way because it's how cargo crates and machine events work. jet boots shouldn't be beholden to the same rules as mission loot because they're just a fun extra to stumble upon in a mission for some variety. they don't contribute to player progression in any way.
oh no, players might complete missions slightly faster than usual, perish the thought!!! not like player progression is completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥ right now from the rockpox mutator getting shoved into every single mission rotation and granting a fifty percent boost to mission payout. for over a year now, by the way

i really feel like they should've just been a mutator, where everyone gets equipped with them whether they're at the start of a mission or a latejoin. i know there's someone at ghost ship who wanted to implement "powerups" you'd find during a mission or something like that. but jet boots are just too powerful and influential to be constrained in such a manner. it should've been a temporary boost in power like the pickups in doom or quake - stuff like increased damage, health regen, faster firing speed, etc. not a permanent improvement to your mobility which completely changes how the game is played

[Zargothrax]

Seems like a small thing to get hung up on, it's such a rare occurrence that it hardly has any effect on people's enjoyment of the game.

I'm much more concerned with the way cargo crates and lost gear works than how jet boots work, once you've opened a crate or found lost gear anyone who joins in afterwards doesn't get to claim it. At least you can collect jet boots without having to be present for the box opening.

[ShugoTheRipper]

I am not reading all that, I am sorry for your loss though.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Zargothrax:

Seems like a small thing to get hung up on, it's such a rare occurrence that it hardly has any effect on people's enjoyment of the game.

I'm much more concerned with the way cargo crates and lost gear works than how jet boots work, once you've opened a crate or found lost gear anyone who joins in afterwards doesn't get to claim it. At least you can collect jet boots without having to be present for the box opening.

did u even read the thread at all
i answered literally all of these points

[Zargothrax]

Originally posted by MY HAT'S ON FIRE:

did u even read the thread at all
i answered literally all of these points

I did, and it doesn't sound like you did. You'll need to clarify more.

I didn't mention how jet boots should behave the same way as cargo crates, quite the contrary, I would like cargo crates to function like jet boots do so late joiners aren't screwed out of rare cosmetics. I know how long that grind can take, usually whenever I find a crate I try and wait for people to start joining before opening it so that they can get the rewards.

By contrast, you aren't missing much by not taking jet boots. Oh no, you have to play the game like normal for a whole mission, woe is you. I've had missions like that and they are literally no different from every other mission, believe it or not people are cognizant of the fact that maybe not everyone has jet boots and won't just fly off on their own like some free-for-all. It's a conscious decision to take jet boots and your team should be aware of each other, that's kind of what teamwork is for.

[CCShad]

Never encountered jet boots that weren’t in the first 1/3 of the mission, and I’ve encountered them at least a dozen or two times now. I assumed that they were heavily weighted to spawn near the start.

[Frisky]

in my experience all my jet boot crates tend to appear somewhere within the first half of the mission, usually in the first or second room but I have had some showing up late or late-joining to a team having already opened it way back

I think this issue only ever becomes serious in morkite and maybe sometimes escort missions, in other missions like salvage, PE, egg hunt, etc the mission map size usually doesn't resort to having to spend too much time backtracking to go get them

but even with that said having to commit time to late joiners running back just to go get their boots or telling late joiners said boots are way in the back isn't very fun, this is just a quick idea I had in like 10 seconds but personally I think a nice fix would be to make it so once the jet boots crate is opened, any late joiners who drop in can maybe collect jet boots from the mule once (like a small crate atop molly that they can see, once they grab the jet boots from it it goes away to prevent it from eating inputs/being spammed to refresh cooldown) it'd fix the problem for the missions where it's most noticeable since the non-mule missions refinery and PE have players going everywhere anyways it's not as necessary there

as for making it a new mutator I feel like it kinda shares too much with low gravity, and jets boots are so absurdly strong that being able to know full well you're about to get them via the mutator telling you feels like a bit much to me personally

[BaronVonNapking]

Okay so what about the crate always spawn within map radar distance of the landing zone?

Making it time limited would make me opt out of wearing em, simply don't wanna bother.

Limited use (which you didn't talk about, but I gotta mention it) would feel tedious as you now have to think about not accidentally wasting it.

And forced to wear them is a bit iffy... why not bring them every mission?

Should they be tied only to rockpox mutators and be dropped with the cleansing tools?

(Also only ever seen boots spawn near the drop pod to begin with, and they show up often.
But I also constantly get corrupters so I guess RNGeesus just loves me)

[Derpykat5]

Annoying and improvable? Yes.

Ridiculous and unfair? That's just absurd hyperbole.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Zargothrax:

I didn't mention how jet boots should behave the same way as cargo crates, quite the contrary, I would like cargo crates to function like jet boots do so late joiners aren't screwed out of rare cosmetics. I know how long that grind can take, usually whenever I find a crate I try and wait for people to start joining before opening it so that they can get the rewards.

if you feel that way then why don't you feel the same way for making jet boots more accessible? like you understand i can also be just as flippant about mission loot availability as you're being, and it wouldn't make it a valid argument in my case either
"oh no, you aren't getting the ugly cosmetic you don't actually want and will never use, woe is you"

[...]believe it or not people are cognizant of the fact that maybe not everyone has jet boots and won't just fly off on their own like some free-for-all. It's a conscious decision to take jet boots and your team should be aware of each other, that's kind of what teamwork is for.

you're kidding yourself if you think that's how pubs behave. nobody is going to deliberately limit their usage of jets for the sake of a late joiner, especially not when they're so rare
it's exactly the same problem as when the double jump existed as a perk. everyone who had it would constantly leave those who didn't have it behind. it's not suddenly balanced because it's a rare spawn

Originally posted by Frisky:

personally I think a nice fix would be to make it so once the jet boots crate is opened, any late joiners who drop in can maybe collect jet boots from the mule once (like a small crate atop molly that they can see, once they grab the jet boots from it it goes away to prevent it from eating inputs/being spammed to refresh cooldown) it'd fix the problem for the missions where it's most noticeable since the non-mule missions refinery and PE have players going everywhere anyways it's not as necessary there

i guess i'd be ok with that but it's more of a band-aid solution if you ask me
my question is why do they even need to be "equipped" in the first place? once the crate is opened it should just apply to everyone who's present in the mission automatically. i know it wouldn't make much sense for jet boots to just magically appear on your feet, but with how powerful and useful they are i feel like it's necessary to ensure everyone gets them all at once[/quote]

as for making it a new mutator I feel like it kinda shares too much with low gravity, and jets boots are so absurdly strong that being able to know full well you're about to get them via the mutator telling you feels like a bit much to me personally

i'll concede it's not an ideal solution but imo it's the fastest and easiest way to solve the problem
the only other alternative is ensuring that they spawn next to the drop pod and forcing them on everyone when they're unlocked, and i doubt GSG is going to go through all the effort to make sure that's the case. they couldn't get mini-mule legs spawning to work when they limited it to 3 per mule, it's why there's always 4 as a failsafe

[kestrel]

Originally posted by LordNapking:

Okay so what about the crate always spawn within map radar distance of the landing zone?

doesn't solve the problem for late joiners. even if it's a non-linear mode like PE they would still potentially have to go out of their way to get to the box
it would only work if you have a full stack going into the mission, which isn't always going to happen

Making it time limited would make me opt out of wearing em, simply don't wanna bother.

Limited use (which you didn't talk about, but I gotta mention it) would feel tedious as you now have to think about not accidentally wasting it.

And forced to wear them is a bit iffy... why not bring them every mission?

Should they be tied only to rockpox mutators and be dropped with the cleansing tools?

i mean... i never said anything about their usage. i definitely never said they should be exclusive to sloppox missions. not sure why you're bringing this up

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Annoying and improvable? Yes.

Ridiculous and unfair? That's just absurd hyperbole.

i'm sorry i'll be nicer to ghost ship next time
i just thought a bit of hyperbole would drag all the regulars away from the stingtail threads they love to post in so much

[Zargothrax]

Originally posted by MY HAT'S ON FIRE:

if you feel that way then why don't you feel the same way for making jet boots more accessible? like you understand i can also be just as flippant about mission loot availability as you're being, and it wouldn't make it a valid argument in my case either
"oh no, you aren't getting the ugly cosmetic you don't actually want and will never use, woe is you"

I never said I was against the idea, I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment so I suppose I should have taken my own advice and made that more clear. I only said it was a small thing to have such a huge problem with in comparison to something like cargo crates which are a rare spawn that give permanent rewards.

you're kidding yourself if you think that's how pubs behave. nobody is going to deliberately limit their usage of jets for the sake of a late joiner, especially not when they're so rare
it's exactly the same problem as when the double jump existed as a perk. everyone who had it would constantly leave those who didn't have it behind. it's not suddenly balanced because it's a rare spawn

I'm speaking from my own experience, I try to look out for my teammates in any way I can and my teammates usually have my back in return. The only exceptions I see are players who are too new to fully have their bearings yet and speedrunners who rush through the cave on their own trying to complete the objective ASAP. I don't know what pool of players you usually draw from but it sounds like mine is a little more pleasant than yours.

I do concede that the double jump problem applies to jet boots just as well, but the difference is that jet boots aren't something you can take with you on every mission all the time and they don't replace one of your valuable perk slots, even if you don't get jet boots while the rest of the team has them it'll only be for that one mission so the problem isn't as chronic.

[Vault Traveler]

I blocked you and by the usual way you wrote this rant you must be kestrel, am I right?

[RENGOKU]

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

I blocked you and by the usual way you wrote this rant you must be kestrel, am I right?

Yep, it’s kestrel

[Vault Traveler]

Originally posted by RENGOKU:

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

I blocked you and by the usual way you wrote this rant you must be kestrel, am I right?

Yep, it’s kestrel

Thanks.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by MY HAT'S ON FIRE:

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Annoying and improvable? Yes.

Ridiculous and unfair? That's just absurd hyperbole.

i'm sorry i'll be nicer to ghost ship next time
i just thought a bit of hyperbole would drag all the regulars away from the stingtail threads they love to post in so much

Except it's not even a problem, hell the boots would HELP counter the Stingtail and all you did was apply an unnecessary nerf to the Dwarves! If anyone wants to find the boots after they join guess what they're shown where they are on the scanner and plus if they want to get them then that's THEIR CHOICE who are you to try and dictate when and where people should be using them?