Stingtails and Why They Have To Be Balanced

[SPiercer]

Warning for anyone reading this: This is not a skill issue and this enemy seriously needs to be balanced or if needed removed if this game is going to continue balancing enemies and weapons.

Stingtails are by far the most obstructive enemy removing you from your position nearly instantly if you arent actively dodging it which means running at a 90 degree angle. If they exist you need to kill them before doing anything like objectives, resupplying and reviving otherwise you will be grabbed and it will be reset meaning it is one of the highest priority targets. Now here are my complaints about it:

Survivability:
Its got a lot of health for how high priority it is. Trijaws, spreaders, shooters and all of the priority targets have low hp or vulnerable weakpoints that are easy to hit. A Spreader has 270 hp and a Stingtail has 600 which is a drastic enough difference but not comparable when thought about weakpoints since both of them have a x2 weakpoint but Spreaders' weakpoint covers nearly all of its body and is always somewhere that can be shot easily. Warden has more hp than a stingtail, 800 to be exact, but its exposed 3x weakpoint makes Warden much easier to deal with. A Stingtail is more comparable to a Preatorian since they both only have 2x weakpoints and a Preatorian has 750 hp. But keep in mind that a Preatorian is much easier to hit with and has one of the biggest unprotected weakpoints.
A Stingtail has 2 weakpoints: back and mouth. Mouth is always accessible and doesn't have armor but is a very small target and is surrounded by unbreakable armor making it not viable to shoot compared to just shooting a non-weakpoint, this is especially true when using a weapon with spread. The back weakpoint covers nearly the entire top side of the enemy and is usually where people aim to take it out but the weakpoint is covered with armor that needs to be broken initially.
This all seems alright when taken face value but it all falls apart when in practice. The Stingtail has unbreakable armor making up its front face making it immune to damage from the front if it doesnt land the mouth. On even terrain this means that you can't damage it unless you hit the mouth or strafe until you can hit the sides which is also difficult since the enemy faces you if its aggroed on you (not to mention the sides have no weakpoint and armor as well making deal 600 damage difficult).
All of these feats sound bad but could be avoided if you get closer to the enemy. If you get closer it is more likely to hit you with its tail and deal big damage with its melee and you are still not able to hit anywhere but the sides and the mouth. If you are far away it is easier to dodge but hitting it becomes a great challenge since the enemy is always facing you and all you can do is try to hit a few pixels of its mouth that you can see. The only viable position to kill a Stingtail is when it is on a wall. Then you can break its armor and deal damage to its back usually killing it very fast, but Stingtail being on the walls is definitely not a guaranteed event.

Offensive:
Stingtails Sting Whip attack can hit a target from great distances adding to its reasoning for why its a high priority target. Stingtails hitting you with its Sting Whip when it is behind or in the middle of a swarm can be deadly since escaping it is a great challenge and it can become a back and forwards motion of the player going into the swarm and escaping very fast if the Stingtail isnt taken out fast which can be even harder if there are praetorians in the swarm because the attack phases through them but your bullets don't. This could be all fine if Stingtail itself wasn't so dangerous not needing a swarm to back it up anyways. A Stingtail typically attacks with Tusk Slam after it has brought the player close enough. The Tusk Slam does 40.8 damage on haz5 4 player, this is comparable to the slasher which only does 34 damage. Its high possibility to deal high amounts of damage via its supportive capabilities and itself makes it very deadly and a Stingtail needs to be killed on sight first priority.
But sometimes killing it after a few seconds of its emerging even isn't fast enough. Stingtails can spawn anywhere like all enemies. This normally isn't an issue since the position of where enemies spawn only changes where they are coming from. With stingtails however things change quite fast. If Stingtails spawn on the ceiling of the caves they can attack from above and hoist players upwards making them take high amounts of fall damage. They can even hoist players high enough to hit them with the high damage Tusk Slam before they land. They can pull players towards unwanted positions like deep parts of the mine, enviormental hazards or hard to get out of places. Or they can spawn in drop pod holes and hoist the player so high that the fall damage is an insta kill making the Stingtail an insta kill enemy. After reading this some people might say "just dodge when you hear the call for it" like that is a good enough excuse for how overpowered it is. But even if it was sometimes Stingtail doesn't do noise before it attacks (for some reason).

The only way to protect yourself:
Jetty boots. I think that the developers added this item to counter stingtails since it checks all the marks. You can avoid the insta kill attacks and you can shoot the weakpoint. This obviously doesn't balance anything since it is not a guaranteed find but Stingtail is.

Conclusion:
Stingtail has one of the highest hp's in normal targets being closer to a Preatorian but much harder to kill. Stingtail has the highest damaging attack by far being able to kill any player instantly. Stingtail has the most obstructive attack making it the highest priority enemy no matter the situation the players are in. This is the definition of overpowered. The fact that people can play with it isn't because the enemy is balanced it is because the part of the player base that has a voice are 300+ level veterans and they are glad to see a new challenge added to the game. Do not be afraid to speak up about it even if people with 1000+ hours call you out for it.

I'm simply dissapointed that a game that is so well made and so well balanced has an enemy that is so utterly broken.

[Frisky]

SPiercer の投稿を引用：

Preatorian since they both only have 2x weakpoints and a Preatorian has 750 hp. But keep in mind that a Preatorian is much easier to hit with and has one of the biggest unprotected

a praetorian has a 1x weakspot

SPiercer の投稿を引用：

The only way to protect yourself:
Jetty boots. I think that the developers added this item to counter stingtails since it checks all the marks. You can avoid the insta kill attacks and you can shoot the weakpoint. This obviously doesn't balance anything since it is not a guaranteed find but Stingtail is.

yeah thats the one sole way to protect yourself from stingtails
aside from y'know:

fearing the stingtail
stunning the stingtail
dodging the stingtail
freezing the stingtail
breaking LoS with the stingtail
shielding against the stingtail
using ziplines to catch yourself vs a stingtail
using platforms to break a fall or catch yourself vs a stingtail
hoverboots vs a stingtail
scout vs a stingtail
or (god forbid) killing the stingtail

probably missing a few others off the top of my head but you get the idea hopefully

also stingtails aren't guaranteed to spawn

[Ittrix]

Enemies that you need to shoot first aren't new. I focus a warden when I see it, I focus a bulk detonator when I see it. When I see a nemesis you can bet your butt that I shoot it.
Stingtails don't one shot you unless you were standing somewhere really dumb now.

[Sally the Wendigo]

Bad bait.

[Magos Flibble]

Lol, Lmao even.

[💾Mimind💾]

it's always skill issue

[babuk.fracal]

Frisky の投稿を引用：

SPiercer の投稿を引用：

Preatorian since they both only have 2x weakpoints and a Preatorian has 750 hp. But keep in mind that a Preatorian is much easier to hit with and has one of the biggest unprotected

a praetorian has a 1x weakspot

SPiercer の投稿を引用：

The only way to protect yourself:
Jetty boots. I think that the developers added this item to counter stingtails since it checks all the marks. You can avoid the insta kill attacks and you can shoot the weakpoint. This obviously doesn't balance anything since it is not a guaranteed find but Stingtail is.

yeah thats the one sole way to protect yourself from stingtails
aside from y'know:

fearing the stingtail
stunning the stingtail
dodging the stingtail
freezing the stingtail
breaking LoS with the stingtail
shielding against the stingtail
using ziplines to catch yourself vs a stingtail
using platforms to break a fall or catch yourself vs a stingtail
hoverboots vs a stingtail
scout vs a stingtail
or (god forbid) killing the stingtail

probably missing a few others off the top of my head but you get the idea hopefully

also stingtails aren't guaranteed to spawn

dodging and using drills to the tails (just drills doesn't always work)

[Echelon-希望と強さ]

SPiercer の投稿を引用：

Warning for anyone reading this: This is not a skill issue and this enemy seriously needs to be balanced or if needed removed if this game is going to continue balancing enemies and weapons.

Stingtails are by far the most obstructive enemy removing you from your position nearly instantly if you arent actively dodging it which means running at a 90 degree angle. If they exist you need to kill them before doing anything like objectives, resupplying and reviving otherwise you will be grabbed and it will be reset meaning it is one of the highest priority targets. Now here are my complaints about it:

Survivability:
Its got a lot of health for how high priority it is. Trijaws, spreaders, shooters and all of the priority targets have low hp or vulnerable weakpoints that are easy to hit. A Spreader has 270 hp and a Stingtail has 600 which is a drastic enough difference but not comparable when thought about weakpoints since both of them have a x2 weakpoint but Spreaders' weakpoint covers nearly all of its body and is always somewhere that can be shot easily. Warden has more hp than a stingtail, 800 to be exact, but its exposed 3x weakpoint makes Warden much easier to deal with. A Stingtail is more comparable to a Preatorian since they both only have 2x weakpoints and a Preatorian has 750 hp. But keep in mind that a Preatorian is much easier to hit with and has one of the biggest unprotected weakpoints.
A Stingtail has 2 weakpoints: back and mouth. Mouth is always accessible and doesn't have armor but is a very small target and is surrounded by unbreakable armor making it not viable to shoot compared to just shooting a non-weakpoint, this is especially true when using a weapon with spread. The back weakpoint covers nearly the entire top side of the enemy and is usually where people aim to take it out but the weakpoint is covered with armor that needs to be broken initially.
This all seems alright when taken face value but it all falls apart when in practice. The Stingtail has unbreakable armor making up its front face making it immune to damage from the front if it doesnt land the mouth. On even terrain this means that you can't damage it unless you hit the mouth or strafe until you can hit the sides which is also difficult since the enemy faces you if its aggroed on you (not to mention the sides have no weakpoint and armor as well making deal 600 damage difficult).
All of these feats sound bad but could be avoided if you get closer to the enemy. If you get closer it is more likely to hit you with its tail and deal big damage with its melee and you are still not able to hit anywhere but the sides and the mouth. If you are far away it is easier to dodge but hitting it becomes a great challenge since the enemy is always facing you and all you can do is try to hit a few pixels of its mouth that you can see. The only viable position to kill a Stingtail is when it is on a wall. Then you can break its armor and deal damage to its back usually killing it very fast, but Stingtail being on the walls is definitely not a guaranteed event.

Offensive:
Stingtails Sting Whip attack can hit a target from great distances adding to its reasoning for why its a high priority target. Stingtails hitting you with its Sting Whip when it is behind or in the middle of a swarm can be deadly since escaping it is a great challenge and it can become a back and forwards motion of the player going into the swarm and escaping very fast if the Stingtail isnt taken out fast which can be even harder if there are praetorians in the swarm because the attack phases through them but your bullets don't. This could be all fine if Stingtail itself wasn't so dangerous not needing a swarm to back it up anyways. A Stingtail typically attacks with Tusk Slam after it has brought the player close enough. The Tusk Slam does 40.8 damage on haz5 4 player, this is comparable to the slasher which only does 34 damage. Its high possibility to deal high amounts of damage via its supportive capabilities and itself makes it very deadly and a Stingtail needs to be killed on sight first priority.
But sometimes killing it after a few seconds of its emerging even isn't fast enough. Stingtails can spawn anywhere like all enemies. This normally isn't an issue since the position of where enemies spawn only changes where they are coming from. With stingtails however things change quite fast. If Stingtails spawn on the ceiling of the caves they can attack from above and hoist players upwards making them take high amounts of fall damage. They can even hoist players high enough to hit them with the high damage Tusk Slam before they land. They can pull players towards unwanted positions like deep parts of the mine, enviormental hazards or hard to get out of places. Or they can spawn in drop pod holes and hoist the player so high that the fall damage is an insta kill making the Stingtail an insta kill enemy. After reading this some people might say "just dodge when you hear the call for it" like that is a good enough excuse for how overpowered it is. But even if it was sometimes Stingtail doesn't do noise before it attacks (for some reason).

The only way to protect yourself:
Jetty boots. I think that the developers added this item to counter stingtails since it checks all the marks. You can avoid the insta kill attacks and you can shoot the weakpoint. This obviously doesn't balance anything since it is not a guaranteed find but Stingtail is.

Conclusion:
Stingtail has one of the highest hp's in normal targets being closer to a Preatorian but much harder to kill. Stingtail has the highest damaging attack by far being able to kill any player instantly. Stingtail has the most obstructive attack making it the highest priority enemy no matter the situation the players are in. This is the definition of overpowered. The fact that people can play with it isn't because the enemy is balanced it is because the part of the player base that has a voice are 300+ level veterans and they are glad to see a new challenge added to the game. Do not be afraid to speak up about it even if people with 1000+ hours call you out for it.

I'm simply dissapointed that a game that is so well made and so well balanced has an enemy that is so utterly broken.

Sounds like skill issue to me ngl

[Frisky]

babuk.fracal の投稿を引用：

dodging and using drills to the tails (just drills doesn't always work)

you mean like how you can use drills to block spitballer shots?

I haven't tried that yet myself, will keep that in mind, pretty good option though if it does work, I imagine the drills not always working might have to do with ping but even if the stingtail pulls you in the drills do fear and stun so they're great at preventing the followup attack still

[babuk.fracal]

Frisky の投稿を引用：

babuk.fracal の投稿を引用：

dodging and using drills to the tails (just drills doesn't always work)

you mean like how you can use drills to block spitballer shots?

I haven't tried that yet myself, will keep that in mind, pretty good option though if it does work, I imagine the drills not always working might have to do with ping but even if the stingtail pulls you in the drills do fear and stun so they're great at preventing the followup attack still

It's not as easy as the spitballer projectile but like you say that might be related to ping.

[SGM]

Running in a straight direction still doesn't ensure you dodge it as it predicts movement.
But dodging it the intended way takes less focus and makes it more of an acid spitter. Demands adequate attention but is manageable. You are kinda overestimating the problem if you think it needs to be removed

But in overall you are right

-Stingtail is the worst enemy in terms of clarity, DRG is great also for it's noob friendly enviroment and you Never have to look up a guide just to perform okay, except now the stingtail feels undodgeable if you don't understand it, which you will definitely not.

-As one of the few ranged enemies with high survivabity. being on a tall zipline or when obstructed movement wise limits your choices to situational unlikely clutches, even a brundle is still possible to face head on and much more forgiving.

[Cor.]

Told you these bad players will not stop until the Stinger is removed from the game.

Please lock this thread already

[Odyne69]

Someone couched it perfectly the other day - "This horse is nothing but atoms."...

Seriously people - let it GO. Adapt, conquer, kill, and move on. So many of you play Halo and Call of Duty and you're having a problem with Stingies?

[Cor.]

Another low skill player comparing apples to coconuts.

Stinger is a brand new critter. Stop comparing it to everything else.

its is unique, treat it like the threat it is.

Get some skill already.

[babuk.fracal]

Honestly the only two issues I have the singtail are just :

I deeply dislike that a stingtail can grab through a bulk, sometimes you don't know it was there in the first place and even if you do the bulk will prevent many of the options to deal with the stingtail.

Very personnal issue, when i f*ck around the sandbox to test an idea for a build I like to spawn 2 waves at the same times in haz 5 and not spawning bosco or any healing/resup, wich can end up in some (fortunatly) impossible scenario of more than 4 stingtails in addition to what you would expect in two swarms happening at the same time.

[TheClosetSkeleton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Deg7VrpHbM&ab_channel=VioletDirge