12232 Hyperalloy Assembly or 13131 Light-Weight Rounds?

[ChickenShred]

These smg builds to me are honestly both pretty good in terms of total damage, dps, and ammo efficiency, though I can't decide which build I should use.

[Torres, The Devourer]

If it were up to me; neither, actually.
33111 or 13111 EM Refire booster. This build turns the stubby into a dps gun that can hold its weight because on its own its dps capabilities often lag behinds its electric AoE electric abilities. It’s also happens to be my favorite build that I have nicknamed the Mac-10 stubby build.
For the electric build, you want to take 2X222 with literally any OC. The two stand outs are EM refire booster and the often overlooked (but EXTREMELY powerful) turret EM discharge.

Though, I don’t want to ignore the builds you listed (because nothing hurts more than having a build you made ignored, I would know) so I’d say that the hyper alloy build you got there would work best. Still, the recoil penalty for the OC is way too harsh for my liking, and will still lag behind the max RoF stubby build in terms of DPS and even control-ability.
For the other build, I’d ditch t1 damage and t4 armor break for the electric mods and swap out the OC for EM refire booster or Turret discarge.

Although I’d still recommend going for the MAC-10 stubby build if you want a good balance of DPS, ammo efficiency, and total damage. And if you want the bugs to suffer an eeeeeeelectric funeral(!) go for the tried and true electric build (plus it’s chibbity approved iirc)

[Veritas]

neither, stubby is kind of bad and relies heavily on its EM refire booster OC to be decent

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by Snazzy Dragon:

neither, stubby is kind of bad and relies heavily on its EM refire booster OC to be decent

Honestly, EM discharge OC makes the stubby an absolute powerhouse. I value ammo efficiency above all else, so having an OC that makes your turrets explode in a wide radius means you get a ton of damage per bullet spent which only gets better for every additional bug the detonations hit. The discharges also 100% shock proc the bugs too for CC, but also makes it so Shard Diffractor does even more damage if you modded it to deal more against shocked enemies.

Also, no joke, this OC holds its own against at least two of the three dreadnoughts. The Dreadnought and Hiveguard can take decent damage on discharges. It's not very good against the twins, because of their mobility.

The only downsides of this OC is that you're now dependent on your turrets being deployed if you want to deal any serious damage using the stubby. Keep close to your turrets and hope you don't have to fight mactera too often unless you're in a confined space to force them closer to you. For this reason, I'd highly recommend having a Shard Diffractor to help either pick off enemies you can't easily kill with EM Discharge, or tough single-target enemies like the Oppressor or Bulk Detonator.

[kestrel]

lightweight rounds is worse than nothing, its sole reason to exist (the ammo bonus) is made entirely redundant by the damage penalty which means you need to spend more shots on killing enemies, ergo it defeats the only reason to use the OC
the RoF penalty is just icing on the cake

the total damage increase is barely any more than what you get from using EMR which also deals significantly more DPS thanks to the high RoF boost. you should never use LWR if your goal is to actually win at the game

i dont think hyperalloy is great either (weakspot bonus on an OC with extremely strong recoil, makes sense ) but its miles better than LWR

[ChickenShred]

Originally posted by Torres, The Devourer:

If it were up to me; neither, actually.
33111 or 13111 EM Refire booster. This build turns the stubby into a dps gun that can hold its weight because on its own its dps capabilities often lag behinds its electric AoE electric abilities. It’s also happens to be my favorite build that I have nicknamed the Mac-10 stubby build.
For the electric build, you want to take 2X222 with literally any OC. The two stand outs are EM refire booster and the often overlooked (but EXTREMELY powerful) turret EM discharge.

Though, I don’t want to ignore the builds you listed (because nothing hurts more than having a build you made ignored, I would know) so I’d say that the hyper alloy build you got there would work best. Still, the recoil penalty for the OC is way too harsh for my liking, and will still lag behind the max RoF stubby build in terms of DPS and even control-ability.
For the other build, I’d ditch t1 damage and t4 armor break for the electric mods and swap out the OC for EM refire booster or Turret discarge.

Although I’d still recommend going for the MAC-10 stubby build if you want a good balance of DPS, ammo efficiency, and total damage. And if you want the bugs to suffer an eeeeeeelectric funeral(!) go for the tried and true electric build (plus it’s chibbity approved iirc)

I always thought EM was less ammo efficient, but it's definitely better at dps. How about a 12231 EM? (To be clear, I need armor break because my secondary doesn't and I hate stingtails/shellbacks).

[kestrel]

Originally posted by ChickenShred:

I always thought EM was less ammo efficient, but it's definitely better at dps. How about a 12231 EM? (To be clear, I need armor break because my secondary doesn't and I hate stingtails/shellbacks).

how fast the weapon fires has no bearing on how much per-shot damage its doing, only that you might miss more shots if you can't control the weapon properly. high RoF weapons aren't "less efficient"
to that end the recoil mod on stubby is a reasonable take but i prefer the T2 magsize for EMR

regarding AB: you should run stubby with shard diffractor, it is the best pairing for the two by far. not only can shard run AB and annihilate armored enemies with overdrive booster, it also massively benefits from stubby's electrocution which can easily enable shard's T5A electric damage boost mod

additionally, the shard having unlimited range makes EMR's accuracy penalty irrelevant, so you can take either T5A or T5B for stubby (either to increase DPS or get more CC)

also, never run the ammo mods on stubby in general (except for turret discharge). the grant less total damage than the damage mods on the same tier, which is the only reason to take ammo over damage in the first place
stubby with 420 max ammo sounds rough, but remember you're doing 15(!) damage at base even before EMR gets involved. you don't need a lot of ammo when you can just shred anything that gets too close

[ChickenShred]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by ChickenShred:

I always thought EM was less ammo efficient, but it's definitely better at dps. How about a 12231 EM? (To be clear, I need armor break because my secondary doesn't and I hate stingtails/shellbacks).

weapons with a high RoF aren't "less efficient" they're just harder to apply most of the time due to recoil. i dont see anyone calling the minigun an "ammo inefficient" weapon for example

how fast the weapon fires has no bearing on how much per-shot damage its doing, only that you might miss more shots if you can't control the weapon properly. to that end the recoil mod on stubby is a reasonable take but i prefer the T2 magsize for EMR

regarding AB: you should run stubby with shard diffractor, it is the best pairing for the two by far. not only can shard run AB and annihilate armored enemies with overdrive booster, it also massively benefits from stubby's electrocution which can easily enable shard's T5A electric damage boost mod

additionally, the shard having unlimited range makes EMR's accuracy penalty irrelevant, so you can take either T5A or T5B for stubby (either to increase DPS or get more CC)

also, never run the ammo mods on stubby in general (except for turret discharge). the grant less total damage than the damage mods on the same tier, which is the only reason to take ammo over damage in the first place
stubby with 420 max ammo sounds rough, but remember you're doing 15(!) damage at base even before EMR gets involved. you don't need a lot of ammo when you can just shred anything that gets too close

So you're saying to only take damage mods for stubby right? I thought 1 damage mod and 1 ammo mod would get me a higher total damage, but upon calculation I just realized there's only around a 30 damage different if I take both damage mods. I can consider taking magazine for T2 too I guess.

Also I actually prefer 21123 inferno Breach Cutter because it's really good at destroying swarms in hz5+. For big targets I just like using stubby (or a mix between the two by burning the target then shooting with smg). Plus am not really a fan of electrocution chance for smg since it's a little inconsistent, so I wouldn't use shard diffractor's T5A.

For a different build I do use 32223 VIR shard diffractor (for AoE) with 23212 executioner lok-1 (for big targets).

[SCamp]

Regarding the builds you presented:

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12232 Hyperalloy Assembly
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This is build is bad for two reasons:

1) In T4: Hyperalloy Assembly emphasizes shooting weakpoints. Shooting at armour isn't the goal, which means Armour Break is weak. So picking up more weakpoint damage is better to maximize what the OC is offering.
2) In T5: You didn't pick electricity DoT proc rate in T1, which is fine (it's not bad if you go electric route). But because you didn't, picking electricity spread in T5 is pretty bad. Either go with larger clip size or increased accuracy.

User preference:
- In T2, you can pick any mod.
- In T3, you can pick either damage or ammo.

From your initial build, I would recommend using 12211 or 12213.

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13131 Light-Weight Rounds
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There isn't anything wrong with this build. It's just very... Vanilla.

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RE EM Refire Booster OC:

This is a DPS-monkey OC that you can build any way you want. There isn't any terrible builds using it. That's why everyone is glazing this OC (even me, I love it because I love maxing out ROF).

I personally prefer to use electric builds 3122 or 23222.

If I were to go balls out on a non-electric build then I would go probably go max damage for max DPS.

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RE Stubby electric build path:

There are only two build paths for stubby:

1) Electric builds.
2) Non-electric builds.

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The electric build path picks up T1b (Upgraded Capacitors) and then takes one or both of T4b (Conductive Bullets, provides single target damage) and T5b (Electric Arc, provides CC against groups).

Electric builds also flexible on ammo/damage in T3, as they get their damage from all of the electric perks so it doesn't hurt to dip into ammo.

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Non-electric builds just ignore electricity completely.

For consideration on non-electric builds:

T4:
- Armour Break allows you to keep damage when shooting at normal grunts at sub-optimal angles) and make certain armoured enemies are not a problem (Brundles, Shellbacks).
- Weakpoint Damage is for DPS-monkeying down praetorians/oppressors and Dreadnoughts.

T5:
- Bigger clip provides an extended DPS boost and lets you reload less often.
- Accuracy improves your effective range and helps in hitting enemies and/or weakpoints.

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RE Damage mods:

Damage is prefered because grunts have 108 HP and builds tend to try and meet the 2x weakpoint breakpoints for ammo economy against them... Also it provides DPS for killing other targets really quickly.

9 damage (base) = 18 damage vs 2xWeakpoint = 6 shots
12 damage (1 damage mods) = 24 damage vs 2xWP = 5 shots
14 damage (LWR+2 damage mods) = 28 damage vs 2xWP = 4 shots
15 damage (2 damage mods) = 30 damage vs 2xWP = 4 shots

(The above assume 0% weakpoint damage bonus.)

[SCamp]

Originally posted by ChickenShred:

For a different build I do use 32223 VIR shard diffractor (for AoE) with 23212 executioner lok-1 (for big targets).

Don't use SMRT Targetting Software with Executioner. You're losing damage because it conflicts with Executioner's mechanics. Take ANYTHING else. (Better advice: Don't use SMRT Targetting Software at all.)

- Electro-Chemical Rounds for single-target damage against burning/electrified targets (works with VIR).
- Super Blowthrough Rounds for flexibility against groups of enemies.

(I'll let your T2 lens selection slide. I also like using T2c on Executioner.)

[kestrel]

Originally posted by ChickenShred:

So you're saying to only take damage mods for stubby right? I thought 1 damage mod and 1 ammo mod would get me a higher total damage, but upon calculation I just realized there's only around a 30 damage different if I take both damage mods. I can consider taking magazine for T2 too I guess.

Also I actually prefer 21123 inferno Breach Cutter because it's really good at destroying swarms in hz5+. For big targets I just like using stubby (or a mix between the two by burning the target then shooting with smg). Plus am not really a fan of electrocution chance for smg since it's a little inconsistent, so I wouldn't use shard diffractor's T5A.

For a different build I do use 32223 VIR shard diffractor (for AoE) with 23212 executioner lok-1 (for big targets).

inferno is cool but you dont really need it most of the time, if youre not planning on leaning into the fire aspect (such as synergies with LOK1 T3A) you can take other options like lightweight cases or roll control

more to the point, the stubby's base %25 proc chance for electrocution at a minimum 11/sec fire rate gives you a very high average proc rate. for individual shots the chance is low but short controlled bursts on HVTs are the best way to trigger the electrocution for synergy with shard T5A. that +%33 really does make the difference, especially paired with overdrive.

and also, passing on the T4 damage mods for armour break hurts the stubby in the long run. the %25 damage boost (electric or weakspot) helps the stubby deal with grunts and similar trash mobs, saving you ammo. armour break doesnt really suit the stubby in general

[Torres, The Devourer]

Darn I missed out on a great discussion thread, but I do second what kestrel said about fire rate and ammo economy. Also I hope you’re enjoying the stubby OP! Find any builds you like? Did you… happen to try the Mac-10 stubby build perchance?