drak & cwc

[kestrel]

combining two completely different weapons into one thread probably isn't a good idea but as past derailing patterns go, we'll probably end up talking about patrick stewart or the financial situation of rwanda or something

Originally posted by The Mask (SCPeach):

DRAK-25 doesn't have a lot of DPS builds outside TEF, especially barring OPA having awful spread, and SBB relying on not taking damage alongside the awful cooling rate, but I reckon you should tryr using impact deflection with splash rounds and tryna angle shots right under/between enemies for double splash hits. It works well against lone grunts and can shred crowds.

i don't play scout to focus on killing crowds because he's objectively worse at it than the other three no matter how you play it. the best scout waveclear builds will lose to an unmodded autocannon or CRSPR. i would much rather be running single target builds which GK2 and M1K can do easily whilst DRAK cannot besides TEF and even then that's debatable given that TEF is not easy to use

i really don't know what purpose DRAK is even supposed to serve anymore, it's objectively weaker than GK2 in terms of damage output, range and sustain. it barely has better ammo and modest utility in the electrocution mod but that's it. and compared to the M1K, it's like making usain bolt run against a newborn baby

As for CWC, yeah it does fall pretty short on nearly every aspect compared to Subata and EPC, but the crowd control can be insane if built right. Granted you're driller, your primaries already do that pretty well, even face melter, but using the wide lens upgrade (tier 1 specifically, not the tier 3 as it's garbage) on diffusion ray or mega power supply can whittle down crowd of grunts in a couple seconds. Not to mention basically removing any naedocyte or swarmer on your screen. Annoying downside though, that goes the same for friendly fire, it does abismal damage but it's so hard to NOT hit your teammates, and god help if you stand on Doretta and use it.

unless i'm playing some meme modded difficulty that exclusively spawns naedocytes and swarmers, i'm not going to waste time with CWC given its pitiful DPS (which stems from both low damage and its low heat capacity)
being good at killing naedocytes isnt even that special because EPC has persistent plasma which hard counters swarmers, and is on a weapon that is actually good
the shot width is a lie anyway, the hitbox is a cylinder when the crosshair suggests its a cone, so at long range the hitbox will actually be narrower than the crosshair

i'm not saying CWC is bad because it doesn't have TCF, that's an unfair comparison and TCF should be nerfed. i'm saying its bad because its damage output is beyond pathetic, it has barely any utility - almost all of which is contained to RNG effects - its only good targets are those which driller's primaries can already deal with and it only has one passable OC in necrosis

it boggles the mind that people constantly meme on subata for doing no damage when the CWC is right there and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing can't even damage weakspots

[Super Gay Locke (SCPeach)]

Originally posted by kestrel:

combining two completely different weapons into one thread probably isn't a good idea but as past derailing patterns go, we'll probably end up talking about patrick stewart or the financial situation of rwanda or something

Originally posted by The Mask (SCPeach):

DRAK-25 doesn't have a lot of DPS builds outside TEF, especially barring OPA having awful spread, and SBB relying on not taking damage alongside the awful cooling rate, but I reckon you should tryr using impact deflection with splash rounds and tryna angle shots right under/between enemies for double splash hits. It works well against lone grunts and can shred crowds.

i don't play scout to focus on killing crowds because he's objectively worse at it than the other three no matter how you play it. the best scout waveclear builds will lose to an unmodded autocannon or CRSPR. i would much rather be running single target builds which GK2 and M1K can do easily whilst DRAK cannot besides TEF and even then that's debatable given that TEF is not easy to use

i really don't know what purpose DRAK is even supposed to serve anymore, it's objectively weaker than GK2 in terms of damage output, range and sustain. it barely has better ammo and modest utility in the electrocution mod but that's it. and compared to the M1K, it's like making usain bolt run against a newborn baby

As for CWC, yeah it does fall pretty short on nearly every aspect compared to Subata and EPC, but the crowd control can be insane if built right. Granted you're driller, your primaries already do that pretty well, even face melter, but using the wide lens upgrade (tier 1 specifically, not the tier 3 as it's garbage) on diffusion ray or mega power supply can whittle down crowd of grunts in a couple seconds. Not to mention basically removing any naedocyte or swarmer on your screen. Annoying downside though, that goes the same for friendly fire, it does abismal damage but it's so hard to NOT hit your teammates, and god help if you stand on Doretta and use it.

unless i'm playing some meme modded difficulty that exclusively spawns naedocytes and swarmers, i'm not going to waste time with CWC given its pitiful DPS (which stems from both low damage and its low heat capacity)
being good at killing naedocytes isnt even that special because EPC has persistent plasma which hard counters swarmers, and is on a weapon that is actually good
the shot width is a lie anyway, the hitbox is a cylinder when the crosshair suggests its a cone, so at long range the hitbox will actually be narrower than the crosshair

i'm not saying CWC is bad because it doesn't have TCF, that's an unfair comparison and TCF should be nerfed. i'm saying its bad because its damage output is beyond pathetic, it has barely any utility - almost all of which is contained to RNG effects - its only good targets are those which driller's primaries can already deal with and it only has one passable OC in necrosis

it boggles the mind that people constantly meme on subata for doing no damage when the CWC is right there and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing can't even damage weakspots

Yes he's worse at it, he's always gonna be, even with fire bolts combined with pheromones, but that's not to say the build is invalid or anything. At that point, being decent at crowd control at Scout means you lose your classes weakness.
As for the CWC, I mean yeah the crosshair is lying to you and the way it's handled is a bit off, but that doesn't make it worse than how it performs with the wide lens upgrade, it still has massive crowd control if used right, moreso than persistent plasma or TCF, especially since they have a fix radius whereas CWC with wide lens gets basically anything in sight. Combine that with temperature shock or boiler ray and you can have really good crowd clear, at the cost of DPS of course, which obviously isn't what you want to lose as driller considering not a lot of choices give it to him.

Yeah GK2 outperforms DRAK in most cases for sure, but not in max DPS potential, only by a tiny bit but still. The highest potential DPS from the GK2 as far as I'm aware is 376.2 if you use BOM with weakpoint damage bonus, both fire rate upgrades and the damage upgrade. Whereas OPA (not the best to use I know but) can reach 380. You can settle for 330 with SBB provided you don't take damage which is an iffy circumstance for sure, or use TEF which of course provides varying DPS but I do remember doing extensive math a while back that I've lost, but I know TEF is ever so slightly better than OPA at it with an easier to manage "gimmick", plus fire. Impact deflection can reach 408, just with the fact that some of it is area damage so it doesn't benefit from weakpoint or frozen boosts, but now you're dealing some of that damage spread out which is good.
But if you don't want crowd control and prefer single target DPS, the DRAK still has its qualities. Hot feet for movement at given times, aggressive venting for a bit of safety, rewiring mod lets you farm hot feet too, conductive thermals is a supportive option that I think is functionally pretty useless but it's there if you like it.

[tcpl]

TEF DRAK is great in a coordinated team with a VB gunner because it's another long-range source of ignition. Combined with the slow effect and good damage at high heat, I think it can really hold its own against the m1000 (unlike the gk2).

[Phytophyte]

From my experience, the big advantage of the two weapons are:

DRAK-25:
Having an overheat mechanic instead of a magazine reload makes the DRAK-25 effectively a self-reloading weapon. If a dwarf paces his shots, he never has to suffer the downtime of a reload cycle; if he does happen to overheat, he can use his secondary weapon while the DRAK cools. It's a bit of a moot point to a dwarf who runs Born Ready, but it is a feature of the gun.

Wave Cooker:
The Wave Cooker is an infinite-range hit-scan weapon that is fully-automatic with no recoil. It excels at striking very distant targets (particularly obnoxious spitters), which is a notable weakness of all of the Driller's primary weapons. The Wave Cooker does rely heavily on gimmicks to make up for its minuscule damage, but that's what keeps it from just being a better Subata.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by The Mask (SCPeach):

Yes he's worse at it, he's always gonna be, even with fire bolts combined with pheromones, but that's not to say the build is invalid or anything. At that point, being decent at crowd control at Scout means you lose your classes weakness.

if you want a class that's good at waveclear you have three other choices to pick from who are all going to be better at it with substantially more options to pick from. all you're doing with a waveclear scout build is making yourself less bad at a job you're always going to be bad at, whilst not leaning into the aspects of the class that make him so powerful. it's like trying to make a single-target driller build, it doesn't work

if i'm gunner, and i've brought a predominantly waveclear-focused build to a mission, i expect my scout to be handling targets i can't. and in turn, i will deal with enemies that he cannot. this is a coop game and you're supposed to be working together to synergize arsenals. after all, a jack of all trades is a master of none

As for the CWC, I mean yeah the crosshair is lying to you and the way it's handled is a bit off, but that doesn't make it worse than how it performs with the wide lens upgrade, it still has massive crowd control if used right, moreso than persistent plasma or TCF, especially since they have a fix radius whereas CWC with wide lens gets basically anything in sight. Combine that with temperature shock or boiler ray and you can have really good crowd clear, at the cost of DPS of course, which obviously isn't what you want to lose as driller considering not a lot of choices give it to him.

boiler ray, sure, but i imagine its ability to damage frozen enemies isnt even intentional. i wouldn't be surprised if GSG decided to nerf it by fixing it one day (if they ever realize it's broken, that is)
i've tried the diffusion/boiler ray combo multiple times and it just sucks. i'd much sooner just let teammates kill whatever i'm freezing so i can get on with other things
what am i actually getting out of a wide lens, even? hitting more enemies at once? CRSPR and cryo have infinite piercing and sludge covers the ground, i have never once struggled with hitting as many enemies as possible with any driller primary. i've never looked at CWC's radial damage and thought it was necessary
and even if it somehow was, it absolutely does not best either PP or TCF (especially not combined)

Yeah GK2 outperforms DRAK in most cases for sure, but not in max DPS potential, only by a tiny bit but still. The highest potential DPS from the GK2 as far as I'm aware is 376.2 if you use BOM with weakpoint damage bonus, both fire rate upgrades and the damage upgrade. Whereas OPA (not the best to use I know but) can reach 380. You can settle for 330 with SBB provided you don't take damage which is an iffy circumstance for sure, or use TEF which of course provides varying DPS but I do remember doing extensive math a while back that I've lost, but I know TEF is ever so slightly better than OPA at it with an easier to manage "gimmick", plus fire. Impact deflection can reach 408, just with the fact that some of it is area damage so it doesn't benefit from weakpoint or frozen boosts, but now you're dealing some of that damage spread out which is good.

it's not just DPS that matters. never mind that OPA and SBB are terrible in their own right, the problem is rooted in the DRAK itself. it's a projectile weapon so it innately struggles at range (the one thing scout is supposed to be really good at) and it suffers a low heat capacity. GK2 being hitscan makes it innately better, but you can take it a step further with AISE which turns off all spread and bloom

it also just does more DPS in general. back when DRAK first launched the GK2 was ♥♥♥♥ so GSG decided to nerf DRAK in S2 to hopefully get people to use GK2. it wasn't until S3 came around with its changes to the GK2 that it became worth using. however, those DRAK nerfs are still in effect, making it a substantially worse weapon now in comparison to GK2 (and M1K) when the truth is it was never that good. it's just that GK2 also sucked at the time and DRAK was new so more people used it

But if you don't want crowd control and prefer single target DPS, the DRAK still has its qualities. Hot feet for movement at given times, aggressive venting for a bit of safety, rewiring mod lets you farm hot feet too, conductive thermals is a supportive option that I think is functionally pretty useless but it's there if you like it.

hot feet sucks, just run the grapple speed mod
AV is only useful in solo
rewiring is actually mind-numbing to use and i'd have more fun watching paint dry
conductive thermals sucks and does even less damage on a gun that already does low damage

[babuk.fracal]

drak :

ngl my opinion doesn't differ much from yours on this one

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by The Mask (SCPeach):

DRAK-25 doesn't have a lot of DPS builds outside TEF, especially barring OPA having awful spread, and SBB relying on not taking damage alongside the awful cooling rate, but I reckon you should tryr using impact deflection with splash rounds and tryna angle shots right under/between enemies for double splash hits. It works well against lone grunts and can shred crowds.

i don't play scout to focus on killing crowds because he's objectively worse at it than the other three no matter how you play it. the best scout waveclear builds will lose to an unmodded autocannon or CRSPR. i would much rather be running single target builds which GK2 and M1K can do easily whilst DRAK cannot besides TEF and even then that's debatable given that TEF is not easy to use

i really don't know what purpose DRAK is even supposed to serve anymore, it's objectively weaker than GK2 in terms of damage output, range and sustain. it barely has better ammo and modest utility in the electrocution mod but that's it. and compared to the M1K, it's like making usain bolt run against a newborn baby

I feel what they were going for is similar to the huge difference between coil gun and the other gunner secondaries, its supposed to be very different from the other and fill other purposes.

However in drak case, its a fail.
Also the weapon mod tree is straight up sadistic on tier 3

AV can be nice and fun but is more of a solo thing that put your scout primary in a weird role and isn't exactly the best when compared to what your secondaries and throwables let you do.

TLC exist, its just default drak but you don't worry about overheat.
But since default drak doesn't do much, thats not a lot.

ID also fall in nice and fun, its a step up from what default drak does but its still doesn't reach a really high point

CT, interesting for elim, very tanky target and support things like ice storm that struggle with their status effect.
Other than that, its not good and prevent you from doing anything efficiently.

RM
This is part of a type of oc that I like to call "I have so much ammo I can't use"
You have ammo forever but end up not really using it because of how much your dps end up being affected.
Also it doesn't really differ all that much from default drak.

OPA
I probably wouldn't dislike this oc if its wasn't for the spread.
Which bother me because the damage is actually nice on it.
Instead you are forced in ranges where you shouldn't be for this kind of weapon.

SBB
I like this oc
but its clearly outclassed by TEF and ask for too much.
The current bufffs this offer are are really nice and the overheat = no armor is an interesting punishment.
However what kills it is the loss of damage and velocity bonus when not at full armor.
Though you can play with either T1A of your armor to be kind of hard to kill since your armor start regenerating very fast.
Or T1B in which case the long starting delay become nulified and let you play around all the upside of the oc more easily.
Also shield link is a go to when using this oc.

TEF
Overall its good. the damage is good the ranged ignition isn't slow and gives you a good amount of options for you and your team.
Though I have reached a point where I wonder why the weapon heat crosshair mod isn't vanilla with how important it is with this oc.

In that case it succeed at being different but still a nice option compared to the other primaries. Especially because of the whole ignition thing.


cwc

Originally posted by kestrel:

As for CWC, yeah it does fall pretty short on nearly every aspect compared to Subata and EPC, but the crowd control can be insane if built right. Granted you're driller, your primaries already do that pretty well, even face melter, but using the wide lens upgrade (tier 1 specifically, not the tier 3 as it's garbage) on diffusion ray or mega power supply can whittle down crowd of grunts in a couple seconds. Not to mention basically removing any naedocyte or swarmer on your screen. Annoying downside though, that goes the same for friendly fire, it does abismal damage but it's so hard to NOT hit your teammates, and god help if you stand on Doretta and use it.

unless i'm playing some meme modded difficulty that exclusively spawns naedocytes and swarmers, i'm not going to waste time with CWC given its pitiful DPS (which stems from both low damage and its low heat capacity)
being good at killing naedocytes isnt even that special because EPC has persistent plasma which hard counters swarmers, and is on a weapon that is actually good
the shot width is a lie anyway, the hitbox is a cylinder when the crosshair suggests its a cone, so at long range the hitbox will actually be narrower than the crosshair

i'm not saying CWC is bad because it doesn't have TCF, that's an unfair comparison and TCF should be nerfed. i'm saying its bad because its damage output is beyond pathetic, it has barely any utility - almost all of which is contained to RNG effects - its only good targets are those which driller's primaries can already deal with and it only has one passable OC in necrosis

it boggles the mind that people constantly meme on subata for doing no damage when the CWC is right there and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing can't even damage weakspots

Only thing I am going to say about what you said for now is about the crosshair.
The fact that its narrower at long range also means it tends to be bigger than the crosshair at close range.


LCS doesn't differ from the default weapon and I have never really found the use for it because the heat meter on this weapon never has been an issue to me.
Even when using options that nuke your heat meter.


SFL is only really usefull on cryo and is the one case where T1A does something.
Since the whole point of freeze is that the target takes more damage and that enemies will more likely be close to you when you freeze them.
This does multiple things.
T3B is affected by damage, using this oc let you save a lot of ammo for the cryo cannon to a point where you will sometimes freeze praets that were in the pack.
Boiler ray is busted against pest enemies without consuming a lot of ammo at any range instantly
This oc with cryo let you do that on crowds at close range
And it reach a point where the 50% to trigger on boiler ray isn't noticable.
It's also can serve as a finishing tool for tankier target when using all your arsenal.

You freeze a few enemies, you kill them and freeze others because of T3B
They took damage from boiler ray so now it takes even less ammo to kill them and trigger boiler ray.
And just like that you have an extremely efficient crowd clear while using the cryo cannon.
Your single target becomes more limited with it but since you are already saving ammo, it means you can use ice spear a bit more often.

It's also interesting with a team you make builds with to put yourself in a role where you use crystal nucleation.

Also its funny how much damage you can do to shellback even when they are in a ball.


DR is an option with cryo but the damage nerf is very noticable when using this with it.
It's much more of a tempshock oc with crspr.
For a long time I didn't really find a use for this mostly because of one important issue.
Crspr didn't had a single target option and you definitely feel the 25% chance when shooting only one target.
Then scorching tide showed up.
Which not only solve that problem but also pair really well with max size temp shock DR.
So now its easier to be in a situation where you don't notice the 25% chance since you are going to use it on crowds anyway.
Also work very well against pest enemies without boiler ray.


MPS is one of the only ammo oc I like since the RoF increase encourage you to use your ammo.
However I am less and less a fan of it because its a generalist option.
In the sense that it does work in all the cwc build but never really goes as far into the point of the build.


BN is very particular.

One of the thing that is immediatly different with it is that the rng is important on it.
10% is low
And unlike the other % chances
blister isn't exactly the most crowd focus option.

You can use it as a way to have single target but in ways that arn't really done by anything else.
You can go with max RoF and go tempshock with crpsr to make cwc chain two ways of doing single tagret to compensate for the low %chance and try to put as many boils as possible for your axes.
Also let you support your team single target.

You can go max size and end up with a weird support weapon that also let you use your primaries differently.

And you can also use it to combo with more single target options of driller primaries.
Good exemple of that is sludge VIM against dreadnoughts.
Even encourage you to not use axes when not fighting dreads.


Gamma contamination is useless in the radioactive zone.
But is an interesting twist on cwc since it let you deal with crowds without having to combo much.
Most of the time you really just want a minimum of crowd control on your primary (Like sludge T5A, which means its one of the rare cases where T5A cwc becomes usefull. However 10% for cwc T5A is way too low, its not a weakpoint maker that would let do too much damage if the % chance was higher and the 30% more damage on enemies with neurotoxin is meaningless.)
I have seen people trying to use it for single target which...
Yeah its funny to put a ton of debuffs on one enemy but thats really not what you want with it.

[King Fossil]

I haven't seen much point in using plasma rifle since assault rifle got buffed. It's not totally unusable, but it is worse. Why would I use it when it's worse?
Actually I might use it every once in a while for the sake of variety. But that doesn't mean it's good. And I'd be happier to do that if it was better.

[Siphonophorous Shenaniganry]

Not going to lie. While Rwanda's economy seems to be growing I am a little bit worried about their sustainable initiative turns out.

When it comes to the actual thread topic.

DRAK just feels like a more awkward rifle. I use it to short/medium range for individual enemies or small groups. But I prefer the MK1. I like the idea of the shield OC but I hate the 100 %/full shield requirement. Couldn't care less about the rest.

CWC I just use for range and accuracy. Otherwise it's just disappointing and feels like a tickle gun to anything above grunts. I just hate Subata more...

[Super Gay Locke (SCPeach)]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by The Mask (SCPeach):

Yes he's worse at it, he's always gonna be, even with fire bolts combined with pheromones, but that's not to say the build is invalid or anything. At that point, being decent at crowd control at Scout means you lose your classes weakness.

if you want a class that's good at waveclear you have three other choices to pick from who are all going to be better at it with substantially more options to pick from. all you're doing with a waveclear scout build is making yourself less bad at a job you're always going to be bad at, whilst not leaning into the aspects of the class that make him so powerful. it's like trying to make a single-target driller build, it doesn't work

if i'm gunner, and i've brought a predominantly waveclear-focused build to a mission, i expect my scout to be handling targets i can't. and in turn, i will deal with enemies that he cannot. this is a coop game and you're supposed to be working together to synergize arsenals. after all, a jack of all trades is a master of none

As for the CWC, I mean yeah the crosshair is lying to you and the way it's handled is a bit off, but that doesn't make it worse than how it performs with the wide lens upgrade, it still has massive crowd control if used right, moreso than persistent plasma or TCF, especially since they have a fix radius whereas CWC with wide lens gets basically anything in sight. Combine that with temperature shock or boiler ray and you can have really good crowd clear, at the cost of DPS of course, which obviously isn't what you want to lose as driller considering not a lot of choices give it to him.

boiler ray, sure, but i imagine its ability to damage frozen enemies isnt even intentional. i wouldn't be surprised if GSG decided to nerf it by fixing it one day (if they ever realize it's broken, that is)
i've tried the diffusion/boiler ray combo multiple times and it just sucks. i'd much sooner just let teammates kill whatever i'm freezing so i can get on with other things
what am i actually getting out of a wide lens, even? hitting more enemies at once? CRSPR and cryo have infinite piercing and sludge covers the ground, i have never once struggled with hitting as many enemies as possible with any driller primary. i've never looked at CWC's radial damage and thought it was necessary
and even if it somehow was, it absolutely does not best either PP or TCF (especially not combined)

Yeah GK2 outperforms DRAK in most cases for sure, but not in max DPS potential, only by a tiny bit but still. The highest potential DPS from the GK2 as far as I'm aware is 376.2 if you use BOM with weakpoint damage bonus, both fire rate upgrades and the damage upgrade. Whereas OPA (not the best to use I know but) can reach 380. You can settle for 330 with SBB provided you don't take damage which is an iffy circumstance for sure, or use TEF which of course provides varying DPS but I do remember doing extensive math a while back that I've lost, but I know TEF is ever so slightly better than OPA at it with an easier to manage "gimmick", plus fire. Impact deflection can reach 408, just with the fact that some of it is area damage so it doesn't benefit from weakpoint or frozen boosts, but now you're dealing some of that damage spread out which is good.

it's not just DPS that matters. never mind that OPA and SBB are terrible in their own right, the problem is rooted in the DRAK itself. it's a projectile weapon so it innately struggles at range (the one thing scout is supposed to be really good at) and it suffers a low heat capacity. GK2 being hitscan makes it innately better, but you can take it a step further with AISE which turns off all spread and bloom

it also just does more DPS in general. back when DRAK first launched the GK2 was ♥♥♥♥ so GSG decided to nerf DRAK in S2 to hopefully get people to use GK2. it wasn't until S3 came around with its changes to the GK2 that it became worth using. however, those DRAK nerfs are still in effect, making it a substantially worse weapon now in comparison to GK2 (and M1K) when the truth is it was never that good. it's just that GK2 also sucked at the time and DRAK was new so more people used it

But if you don't want crowd control and prefer single target DPS, the DRAK still has its qualities. Hot feet for movement at given times, aggressive venting for a bit of safety, rewiring mod lets you farm hot feet too, conductive thermals is a supportive option that I think is functionally pretty useless but it's there if you like it.

hot feet sucks, just run the grapple speed mod
AV is only useful in solo
rewiring is actually mind-numbing to use and i'd have more fun watching paint dry
conductive thermals sucks and does even less damage on a gun that already does low damage

If you dislike these choices, then at the end of the day I can't change that and shouldn't tell you that you can't, especially after what I said in another thread about pro players throwing a tantrum over non-meta builds or weapons being mentioned, then said I like how the thunderhead feels and don't like TCF.
I wouldn't agree with the part about scout with crowd control though, you can still do crowd control and retain a good bit of DPS. Besides, it's a horde shooter and there's always more than a bug at a time anyway. Try running impact deflection with splash rounds, you might enjoy it.

[Torres, The Devourer]

The drak has been one of my favorite weapons since it released, but ever since its nerfs and GK2s buffs, I’ve found that it does fall short. For starters we could just revert its nerfs (the ones that were made to make the GK2 look better) and it would be better but would still need some more help.

Its mod tree is pretty good if say. T2 is good, T1 has RoF vs cooling, T3 has accuracy vs sustain and QoL.
Hot feet I only take when using aggressive venting and I don’t use projectile velocity at all (except maybe the fire OC iirc)
T4 and 5 are worse off though. T4 is dominated by the electric mod which allows for more damage, slow, and combo potential. I really like plasma splash but it isn’t worth it. AB is still bad on this weapon. T5 you should almost always go for the extra RoF when above %50 heat. Manual heat dump is only useful for aggressive venting and even then the other option is still a good choice.

The OC pool also sucks. I didn’t realize how much it sucked until you pointed it out for me in a previous thread.

I like aggressive venting. It could be stronger, but it’s alright in my eyes.

Thermal liquid coolant is my favorite. It sounds stupid but no really. Almost every OC deals with heat in some way and I don’t like that. I want to shoot my gun. In the words of Mr purple “I Want My Drak To BE A Drak” and so do I! It allows me to cooldown faster and shoot longer which is really nice, BUT because the base drak lacks damage (and a lot of other thing like WP bonus) it suffers.

Rewiring mod or whatever it’s called is an OC I think I have only seen once. I’d like to see this OC scrapped and reworked into something new entirely.

Bouncy plasma was good until it got nerfed and most people went back to shooting HVTs again (which they should). This might be a crazy idea, but I’d like to see bouncy plasma changes to go back to 2 bounces with no penalty, and turn it into a mod tree option. Kinda like how in DRG survivor plasma weapons are bouncy by default. Or at least the warthog plasma OC is. I’d also like the current T5 mods to be combined into one. It wouldn’t do much but it would be a nice indirect buff to aggressive venting!
I used to mainly use OPA but I got bored of it thanks to its accuracy penalty. This OC feels cool, but kind of stupid. I’d like it to be reworked and changed into something new and put its damage bonus into…
SBB. I like this overclock, actually. Yes, its downsides are a pain in the ass and it doesn’t work at all in shield disruption missions, I think it’s kinda good actually. Like I said, I want its damage to be increased to match OPA and maybe its bonuses could scale with how much shield you have instead of just turning off completely but its a good OC in my eyes.
TEF is so good it feels like a balanced in disguise. Gives the drak what it desperately wants: more damage. Also lights enemies on fire as an added bonus. Best OC for the drak hands down.
The new conductive thermals seem niche, but you can pull off some really funky shenanigans with it. I think it could be buffed in some way, but it’s a great start for an interesting OC.

These are just my five cents on the mod tree and OCs. I can’t go into too much detail on the comments already posted here and I’ll talk about the CwC later (TCF OP and should be nerfed. I dot. Want to hear the “it takes skill” argument it’s not that hard to use) but for now I’d like to see the damage increased, nerfs reverted, OC pool changed DRASTICALLY (many weapons need this actually), and a better T4 and T5. Oh, and maybe bouncy plasma in the base weapon. I don’t know if it would be that good, but to have a T5 mod that doesn’t involve heat in some way that would be great.
I’d also like to TLC buffed so it’s cooling rate matches T3 B kinda like how it’s heat per shot matches T1 B.
Ok I go and talk to my dads cousins now bye (they also have a dog!!!)

[Torres, The Devourer]

Also a microwave beam OC that focuses on damage and acts like a mini shard diffractor would be fricken awesome for the CwC and would be really fun to pair with boiler Ray.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by babuk.fracal:

Only thing I am going to say about what you said for now is about the crosshair.
The fact that its narrower at long range also means it tends to be bigger than the crosshair at close range.

whilst that is true, i would argue it doesn't matter because the times where your shot width will be smaller than expected are more than the opposite
not to mention you don't want enemies up in your face with CWC because it just won't kill them in time

SFL is only really usefull on cryo and is the one case where T1A does something.
Since the whole point of freeze is that the target takes more damage and that enemies will more likely be close to you when you freeze them.
This does multiple things.
T3B is affected by damage, using this oc let you save a lot of ammo for the cryo cannon to a point where you will sometimes freeze praets that were in the pack.
Boiler ray is busted against pest enemies without consuming a lot of ammo at any range instantly
This oc with cryo let you do that on crowds at close range
And it reach a point where the 50% to trigger on boiler ray isn't noticable.
It's also can serve as a finishing tool for tankier target when using all your arsenal.

You freeze a few enemies, you kill them and freeze others because of T3B
They took damage from boiler ray so now it takes even less ammo to kill them and trigger boiler ray.
And just like that you have an extremely efficient crowd clear while using the cryo cannon.
Your single target becomes more limited with it but since you are already saving ammo, it means you can use ice spear a bit more often.

It's also interesting with a team you make builds with to put yourself in a role where you use crystal nucleation.

all of that is just too much work, though. i'm sorry, i don't want to waste time cleaning up frozen enemies when it's my job to enable the freeze status in the first place. this sounds like such a boring and frustrating way to play driller. if i was absolutely desperate to make the cryo combo with itself, i'm gonna be using something like ice spear or ice storm, not the CWC
i don't need to save ammo on cryo by using CWC T3B because cryo carries truckloads of ammo anyway (especially with T4C)

maybe in solo play this is a worthwhile strategy, but i don't play solo regularly so i don't really care about what does and doesn't work there. this is a coop game first

i'm just running out of ways to say "i don't need the wave cooker", i would so much rather have either subata for weakspot/incendiary damage or EPC for PP/TCF because those guns actually do things that driller's primaries cannot do. wave cooker just feels like a boiled down version of CRSPR in terms of mechanics
and don't say "use temp shock" either, it sucks

[babuk.fracal]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by babuk.fracal:

Only thing I am going to say about what you said for now is about the crosshair.
The fact that its narrower at long range also means it tends to be bigger than the crosshair at close range.

whilst that is true, i would argue it doesn't matter because the times where your shot width will be smaller than expected are more than the opposite
not to mention you don't want enemies up in your face with CWC because it just won't kill them in time

I am not sure whats the point here
As driller you are the class that is always the closest to enemies.
Not kill them in time ?
One of cwc advantage over driller primaries when done well is how you are allowed to kill enemies fast instead of having to rely on dots or hoping your team shoot the frozen enemies.
Enemies being close matter even less when using cryo.

Originally posted by kestrel:

SFL is only really usefull on cryo and is the one case where T1A does something.
Since the whole point of freeze is that the target takes more damage and that enemies will more likely be close to you when you freeze them.
This does multiple things.
T3B is affected by damage, using this oc let you save a lot of ammo for the cryo cannon to a point where you will sometimes freeze praets that were in the pack.
Boiler ray is busted against pest enemies without consuming a lot of ammo at any range instantly
This oc with cryo let you do that on crowds at close range
And it reach a point where the 50% to trigger on boiler ray isn't noticable.
It's also can serve as a finishing tool for tankier target when using all your arsenal.

You freeze a few enemies, you kill them and freeze others because of T3B
They took damage from boiler ray so now it takes even less ammo to kill them and trigger boiler ray.
And just like that you have an extremely efficient crowd clear while using the cryo cannon.
Your single target becomes more limited with it but since you are already saving ammo, it means you can use ice spear a bit more often.

It's also interesting with a team you make builds with to put yourself in a role where you use crystal nucleation.

all of that is just too much work, though. i'm sorry, i don't want to waste time cleaning up frozen enemies when it's my job to enable the freeze status in the first place. this sounds like such a boring and frustrating way to play driller. if i was absolutely desperate to make the cryo combo with itself, i'm gonna be using something like ice spear or ice storm, not the CWC
i don't need to save ammo on cryo by using CWC T3B because cryo carries truckloads of ammo anyway (especially with T4C)

maybe in solo play this is a worthwhile strategy, but i don't play solo regularly so i don't really care about what does and doesn't work there. this is a coop game first

i'm just running out of ways to say "i don't need the wave cooker", i would so much rather have either subata for weakspot/incendiary damage or EPC for PP/TCF because those guns actually do things that driller's primaries cannot do. wave cooker just feels like a boiled down version of CRSPR in terms of mechanics
and don't say "use temp shock" either, it sucks

Too much work ?

Well I used a lot of words yes but the tldr is really just "w+m1 with one time then a second time with your secondary."

I said it help you freeze enemies and even kill them instantly in the process, kind of hard to save more time and freeze enemies than removing the enemies.

It sounds like it, and yet among the many ways of playing driller I enjoy this one as much as the others.
Myself have a few weapons and playstyles I am not a fan of for now, but I simply did my best to see how far it could go and how I could make this playstyle more suitable for me.

Ice spear only offer single target, whats so weird about using the cwc in that case
Ice storm sacrifice many good aspects of cryo and reduce how much stopping power you have, cwc let you keep cryo as usual and even open possibilites while improving your crowd clear/control

Trucks load of ammo that vary depending the oc, and in the end cryo is on a lot of builds the most ammo hungry of driller primaries.
Freezing enemies is expensive and using some oc's is even more.
Also hazard being an important factor about this considering how rutheless you have to be on a lot of cases if you don't want to give the enemies some breathing room.

While I can't deny that it work great solo, this is part of my builds I use on both solo and online.
In that case its even a build I use on haz 5a so that I can play around the fact that even here regular enemies get folded by me while my team stay more focused on the enemies I can't kill or shouldn't be focused on killing them myself, enemies that I can help them kill with cryo and ice spear.

And thats perfectly fine to think that
Like I said, even me who force myself to try stuff until I found the right spot have a few things I dislike.
Well cwc do things some primaries build for driller can't do, if that weren't true some throwables wouldn't exist and it would just resume to "axes only" since most of the strongest builds don't need HE and neuro despite not being bad throwables.

Not sure if I understand the "boiled down version of crspr" with how many differences they have in practice.

Well tbh, I think T5C is kind of useless/gimmicky oustide of scorching tide and somewhat when using blister.
it doesn't really offer what you want for a big majority of crpsr builds.
Also I would love if people stopped trying to use it with cryo.

[Xirce]

I don't see much point in the using the Drak for 1 reason:
It getting nerfed hard before GSG finally buffed the assault rifle.
I honestly think the nerfs to the Drak should be reverted since the assault rifle got buffed, otherwise, the Drak is now a worse GK2, which is funny when this used to be reverse; when Drak was first released, it was pretty much considered a better GK2.

The CWC is weird. I want to like it, but its poor damage really disappointed me. The heat system having a very seemingly low cap also doesn't help. I'm also not really a fan of the "combo" setups that Driller seems to specialize in, which does make it to where I honestly don't really like any of Driller's secondaries, which I will admit, is just personal bias on my end.
Nonetheless, CWC always seems like a weapon that constantly runs out of ammo, whether you're running base gun or an overclock. I really don't understand why it has such low damage/ammo.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by babuk.fracal:

I am not sure whats the point here
As driller you are the class that is always the closest to enemies.
Not kill them in time ?
One of cwc advantage over driller primaries when done well is how you are allowed to kill enemies fast instead of having to rely on dots or hoping your team shoot the frozen enemies.
Enemies being close matter even less when using cryo.

wave cooker absolutely does not kill things fast, especially not compared to any of his primaries. my point is that all three of his weapons excel at close range and area denial. that's the point, driller is short-range waveclear

even in the extremely rare occurrence where a bug is in your face and your primary is unavailable, you can just use drills to kill them. which are actually even better than CWC because the stun and fear they inflict provides additional safety

Too much work ?

Well I used a lot of words yes but the tldr is really just "w+m1 with one time then a second time with your secondary."

I said it help you freeze enemies and even kill them instantly in the process, kind of hard to save more time and freeze enemies than removing the enemies.

perhaps "too much work" was the wrong choice of words. i meant to say i just don't think it's fun or an effective use of my time
i don't need a secondary that can deal with frozen targets for me, maybe besides heavy hitter EPC (and that's a big maybe)
even the stupidest teammates will reliably shoot at frozen teammates because everyone understands the concept of "blue bug hurt more when shot". players like shooting at frozen targets because the damage boost is satisfying (and saves ammo), they don't need encouraging to do it and i don't need to bring a weapon that kills groups of frozen targets for me

i don't need CWC for T3B either, every single cryo build runs cold radiance and it takes care of ammo usage and freeze power. the effect of temperature amplifier is nothing by comparison

Well cwc do things some primaries build for driller can't do, if that weren't true some throwables wouldn't exist and it would just resume to "axes only" since most of the strongest builds don't need HE and neuro despite not being bad throwables.

HE is good with CRSPR and sludge for dealing with mactera and spitters. neurotoxin is good for cryo since it can mitigate the weapon's (comparatively) lacking waveclear
i won't contest that axes are by far the best pick driller has for the throwable slot but there are valuable uses for the others. no defence for the ripper, though

Not sure if I understand the "boiled down version of crspr" with how many differences they have in practice.

i apologize, i didn't explain that clearly enough
my point is that CWC is too similar in function to CRSPR and (to a lesser extent) cryo, and i don't like it because of that
i don't need a secondary that is also good at soft targets when driller's primaries are all already really good at that. you wouldn't bring PGL with an AoE stubby build and you wouldn't bring coilgun with carpet bomber autocannon. there's no sense in stacking two types of the same weapon into one loadout, that's why the game gives you two weapons

and to be clear, this is in context of having guns that can protect themselves against a variety of threats, broadly speaking. in general i don't think it's a good idea to bring one gun that's exclusively single target and another that's exclusively waveclear for a variety of reasons (which i'll explain in depth if asked, but this reply is long enough already)

my point is, subata and EPC cover for the low base damage of driller's primaries whilst wave cooker is just another low base damage secondary with a bunch of RNG gimmick effects

[babuk.fracal]

Originally posted by kestrel:

wave cooker absolutely does not kill things fast, especially not compared to any of his primaries. my point is that all three of his weapons excel at close range and area denial. that's the point, driller is short-range waveclear

even in the extremely rare occurrence where a bug is in your face and your primary is unavailable, you can just use drills to kill them. which are actually even better than CWC because the stun and fear they inflict provides additional safety

No I am not saying cwc kill fast by itself
Its much faster than your primaries when used as a combo with your primaries.

Both the scorching tide + temp shock and cryo plus boiler ray/T3B allow me to kill the enemies right now.
And with how much of a snowball effect it has, you get to kill enemies your primaries would normally take more time to kill or straight up not kill.
A group of guards and other similar enemies that tend to be tankier get decimated by cwc when used well.

perhaps "too much work" was the wrong choice of words. i meant to say i just don't think it's fun or an effective use of my time
i don't need a secondary that can deal with frozen targets for me, maybe besides heavy hitter EPC (and that's a big maybe)
even the stupidest teammates will reliably shoot at frozen teammates because everyone understands the concept of "blue bug hurt more when shot". players like shooting at frozen targets because the damage boost is satisfying (and saves ammo), they don't need encouraging to do it and i don't need to bring a weapon that kills groups of frozen targets for me

i don't need CWC for T3B either, every single cryo build runs cold radiance and it takes care of ammo usage and freeze power. the effect of temperature amplifier is nothing by comparison

Well the whole "i don't need a secondary that can deal with frozen targets for me" is the whole playstyle thing I am talking about.
I like a build that let me focus on crowd control and clear while putting less weight on my team shoulders.
This has proven especially true on salvage where my failed attempts for haz 5a were because my team didn't know what to focus and ended up being overwhelmed while the wins were more coordinated since I made it clear to them that they can safely take care of the more special enemies without getting crowded.


well that is just not true
the fact that its nothing in comparison that is, I can very easily just freeze a bunch of enemies then just keep firing in the crowd with cwc and still freezing/killing all of them.
I thought it didn't do much at first then when I actually took time to test different stuff with it, I was quite surprised with how fast enemies got frozen just because of it.

If you use cryo only to freeze enemies and forget they exist because you didn't made crowd clear your current job yes, ammo won't go down a lot.
Which is another playstyle.
So not really what I am talking about.

HE is good with CRSPR and sludge for dealing with mactera and spitters. neurotoxin is good for cryo since it can mitigate the weapon's (comparatively) lacking waveclear
i won't contest that axes are by far the best pick driller has for the throwable slot but there are valuable uses for the others. no defence for the ripper, though

Guess we have the same opinion for driller throwables

i apologize, i didn't explain that clearly enough
my point is that CWC is too similar in function to CRSPR and (to a lesser extent) cryo, and i don't like it because of that
i don't need a secondary that is also good at soft targets when driller's primaries are all already really good at that. you wouldn't bring PGL with an AoE stubby build and you wouldn't bring coilgun with carpet bomber autocannon. there's no sense in stacking two types of the same weapon into one loadout, that's why the game gives you two weapons

and to be clear, this is in context of having guns that can protect themselves against a variety of threats, broadly speaking. in general i don't think it's a good idea to bring one gun that's exclusively single target and another that's exclusively waveclear for a variety of reasons (which i'll explain in depth if asked, but this reply is long enough already)

my point is, subata and EPC cover for the low base damage of driller's primaries whilst wave cooker is just another low base damage secondary with a bunch of RNG gimmick effects

The only one that I would really compare to crpsr is gamma contamination since it end up with the same process.

I wouldn't do that with these weapons because of the classes and options bringing x weapon with x weapon have.

Both engi and gunner have the ability to be much more versitile on what they should target compared to scout and driller.

Subata has the ability to cover for a lack of single target and range, which is what crspr builds need outside of scorching tide.

In sludge case it help with single tagret but it also help with crowd clear, which can help on situations where you enemies are just walking in you puddles but don't have the stronger effect of sludge when they get directly shot or get touched by a falling fragment.

And I am not going to talk about subata + cryo because there really is no point in this.
Like there really isn't any reason to use that over cwc or epc :
https://youtu.be/P-nrCRCjvxQ?si=PjMOHpwGTlEmqXh3

Epc is peculiar
With TCF its a very independent weapon that has both good crowd clear and good single target.
Without even really talking about the mining part that has some great use when not spammed at every mineral vein encountered but when taking into account the current context.

Then you have burning nightmare which offer some combos
It can work with cryo, you just have to remenber for tanky enemies like praets "never freeze then ignite"
And you have sludge but the whole ignite puddles doesn't really do much and you are just better of playing with another player like a crspr driller or burning hell gunner.
Yes explosive compund is here and yes in that case the combo work.

And you have heavy hitter which fall in the single target/ranged category but in a way that isn't really interesting for crpsr, not very good for sludge outside of EC.

But is good when you want to play cryo as support and have the ability to help with single target.

And you have cwc

Which at its current state with the right combinations offers good crowd clear for scorching tide in which case you end up deleting crowds of varied enemies while also having the ability to use this crspr oc a lot.

Good crowd clear for cryo while letting either hard focus a crowd control/clear role or abuse ice spear.

Decent crowd clear with sludge while using said primary with VIM or sludge blast.
(though lets be honest, epc tcf dunk on that combination)
And crowd control/single target build when used with blister.

What cwc need to my eyes is :
rework T5A
Change T5C in a way that doesn't affect the current combo with scorching tide but make it viable with crpsr builds.

I could also say fix the issues between some of the weapon mods not working with each other but "fixing x thing that doesn't work" is an obvious wish.

Other than that
The cwc is a perfectly viable weapon in the currently available vanilla difficulties of this game and offers builds that heavily alter how you manage your driller arsenal in a way that can grant efficient results.