Perk Rework/New Ones

[Palo Wagner]

Do you guys think we need reworks? Or that we need new ones?
I think there are some perks that are so bad they need a rework

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Play without a Scout on Sandblasted, Biozone or Fungus Bog on 3/3 caves and it's value becomes beyond obvious.

but if your scout has his brain turned on and knows how to press 4 on his keyboard, you don't need strong arm at all

[Amble]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Im sorry but saying strong arm is one of the best

Play without a Scout on Sandblasted, Biozone or Fungus Bog on 3/3 caves and it's value becomes beyond obvious.

Ceilings too high to be briefly lit with a normal flare throw are so incredibly uncommon, on top of relying on you not having a Scout to be of any use at all. In what world is that better than pretty much anything else that results in you healing more, taking less damage, or doing things faster?

I think I'd rather run It's a Bug Thing honestly.

[Phytophyte]

"Strong Arm is useless because Scout."

Even the best and most reliable Scout players are not always going to be in the same room as you.

The Strong Arm perk becomes much more valuable when you're separated from your team and alone, which is incidentally when you're the most vulnerable. You only have your own four flares to work with at this point, so seeing as much of the cave and its dangers with each flare throw will give you a lot of clearance, whether you're trying to get back to your team or working on your own little mission. The extra hurl on large objects also lets you shuffle your newfound richness along faster and with less effort.

It's a self-sufficiency perk, and some dwarves like that.

[Palo Wagner]

Originally posted by Phytophyte:

"Strong Arm is useless because Scout."

Even the best and most reliable Scout players are not always going to be in the same room as you.

The Strong Arm perk becomes much more valuable when you're separated from your team and alone, which is incidentally when you're the most vulnerable. You only have your own four flares to work with at this point, so seeing as much of the cave and its dangers with each flare throw will give you a lot of clearance, whether you're trying to get back to your team or working on your own little mission. The extra hurl on large objects also lets you shuffle your newfound richness along faster and with less effort.

It's a self-sufficiency perk, and some dwarves like that.

Just go the gym, then you dont need the perk

[SCamp]

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Strong Arm is legit one of the best perks in the game, not kidding.



Is it though? I mean it has it's charms, but I'm not sure what would make it a must have pick? (Personally I use it on Gunner, but not the other classes.)

Im sorry but saying strong arm is one of the best in the world but you are not sure about resupplier? I dont wanna be rude my man but thats kinda :captainclown:

This post is how you tell someone doesn't play half of the game

[Phytophyte]

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Just go the gym, then you dont need the perk :cozyprodman:

Git gud, then you don't need to complain about perks.

[Palo Wagner]

Originally posted by SCamp:

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Im sorry but saying strong arm is one of the best in the world but you are not sure about resupplier? I dont wanna be rude my man but thats kinda

This post is how you tell someone doesn't play half of the game :jimbo:

mad?

[SCamp]

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Originally posted by SCamp:

This post is how you tell someone doesn't play half of the game

mad?:captainclown:

I don't play siege, so no

[Palo Wagner]

Originally posted by SCamp:

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

mad?

I don't play siege, so no :redbeard:

mad?

[SCamp]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Im sorry but saying strong arm is one of the best

Play without a Scout on Sandblasted, Biozone or Fungus Bog on 3/3 caves and it's value becomes beyond obvious.

Use the laser pointer. Just pull it out and sweep. Farther flare tossing is a bonus and not the main selling point of Strong Arm.

[Iluszachane]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Originally posted by Palo Wagner:

Im sorry but saying strong arm is one of the best

Play without a Scout on Sandblasted, Biozone or Fungus Bog on 3/3 caves and it's value becomes beyond obvious.

It should be merged with another perk, like someone else mentioned near the top of the thread.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by SCamp:

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Play without a Scout on Sandblasted, Biozone or Fungus Bog on 3/3 caves and it's value becomes beyond obvious.

Use the laser pointer. Just pull it out and sweep. Farther flare tossing is a bonus and not the main selling point of Strong Arm.

Plus, if you aren't Scout, and there's darkness way up in the sky which you can't see into, who cares? You aren't the one who needs to mine the resources, just pay attention so you don't get leeched and let the Scout deal with it.

[Pigeons555]

One good thing about the perk balance is that aside from arguably Iron Will, you can kind of live without them just fine, they aren't that strong. Half of the players use Dash and can never take it off, the other half never use Dash. (I'm part of the latter.)

Whether or not the devs want perks to be very powerful and gameplay defining in the future is up to them. So for now, everyone can take solace in the fact that their perks aren't that much better than other perks. A decent case can be made for the value of every perk.

In the spirit of discussion, I use identical builds on all my dwarves because I'm lazy.

Vampire (imagine if you could only restore health from resupplies or Red Sugar)
Thorns (I refuse to give attention to one Swarmer)
Deep Pockets. I used to use Veteran Depositor. +15 is nearly 50% more minerals and anytime you go over 40, this perk saved you from a minor hassle, which seems to be most veins of ores.

Iron Will. Extra chance. Used it before knowing it worked with Vampire.
Flex slot. See you in Hell as a meme pick, you can one shot Grunts back when they hit you using the melee damage buff. See you in Hell also applies fear to a radius around you when you unleash it, making your revive a bit safer except for ranged enemies.

Short list of perks I feel are truly not worth taking ever, at least for me.
-It's a Bug Thing. Lol.
-Elemental Insulation. % resistance to elemental damage that mostly ticks you for like 5 damage (hot floor, Fungy bungy puff mushrooms). Completely inconsequential, you will not notice the damage reduction at all.
-Born Ready. Unpopular opinion. I believe people who use Born Ready do not specialize their Primary/Secondary to do one of extreme single target/horde clear CC, so they just hold M1 with one gun, switch to their other gun and hold M1, and rinse and repeat. Nothing wrong with doing that, but they are missing out on Hyper Propellant evaporating single targets, comboed with Explosive Chemical Rounds being just as specialized for crowd clearing and only needing one gun for one job. Also doesn't work with a good chunk of weapons so that extra effort to change perks with weapons is not worth it.
-Second Wind. Inconsequential speed buff.

What if they let us have all the passive perks active at once?

[Iluszachane]

Originally posted by Pigeons555:

Short list of perks I feel are truly not worth taking ever, at least for me.
-Elemental Insulation. % resistance to elemental damage that mostly ticks you for like 5 damage (hot floor, Fungy bungy puff mushrooms). Completely inconsequential, you will not notice the damage reduction at all.

If I'm not mistaken, it protects against Praetorian breath and Acid Spitters (both dangerous sources of poison damage). I thought it worked against Dreadnought fireballs, but apparently those are only explosive damage. The perk should be changed to protect against those attacks imo.

Originally posted by Pigeons555:

-Second Wind. Inconsequential speed buff.

Agreed, it should either provide a higher boost (20% after the timer), or a more subtle boost (say, 10%) at all times w/o need for an activation window.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by Pigeons555:

-Elemental Insulation. % resistance to elemental damage that mostly ticks you for like 5 damage (hot floor, Fungy bungy puff mushrooms). Completely inconsequential, you will not notice the damage reduction at all.

Elemental Insulation reduces damage from Praetorian spit, which makes it pretty worth it on high hazards IMO. I don't get hit by Praets directly attacking me, you see; I get hit by ones attacking my teammates and catching me in the crossfire unexpectedly.

I feel that overall it saves me more health and lives than vampire does.

Originally posted by Pigeons555:

-Born Ready. Unpopular opinion. I believe people who use Born Ready do not specialize their Primary/Secondary to do one of extreme single target/horde clear CC, so they just hold M1 with one gun, switch to their other gun and hold M1, and rinse and repeat. Nothing wrong with doing that, but they are missing out on Hyper Propellant evaporating single targets, comboed with Explosive Chemical Rounds being just as specialized for crowd clearing and only needing one gun for one job. Also doesn't work with a good chunk of weapons so that extra effort to change perks with weapons is not worth it.

Born Ready is great, you can use it in two ways. Either you use it to avoid reloading weapons with long reloads by switching to something else to keep up firepower, or you use it to always have your tools and burst weapons ready to fire when needed. Both of those use cases can be worth taking in the right conditions.