Napalm rounds for the hurricane.

[Torres, The Devourer]

Hey guys. Ever since that one hurricane thread that was recently posted I've been thinking about two things:
The first is how awesome I was to be an early adopter of the hurricane even after (at the time, seemingly) everyone's dream were crushed when napalm rounds got nerfed. So now I get to feel all smug and epic and cool.
The second is how maybe the napalm rounds weren't so OP- at all! I, for the longest time, staunchly believed that the hurricanes napalm rounds were OP. You could kill grunts in a mere two rockets as opposed to three, as well as adding a tad bit of DPS and DoT to your rockets.

But now that it has been nerfed the go to has been stun for a long time. The stun is really good. Each rocket has a 25% chance to stun for 3 seconds. This turned out to be really strong. I'm no math expert, but if you have a 25% chance to stun and you have a magazine size of 36, then you'd get an average of nine rockets that stun. But each of the stun for three seconds! So that stun time would be a total of 27 seconds (but that is unlikely because IIRC most enemies have a short immunity to stun after they're finished from being stunned).
It can also stop dangerous enemies such as praetorian and slashers from attacking you, which is just really nice to have. If you have a mag size of 72, then I would assume you would get 18 rockets for a total stun time of 54 seconds.

The stun is good. Like, REALLY good. OP? No. Lacking in competition? Yes. Because Napalm round were so damn popular, and seemingly everybody wouldn't touch the damn thing (the GRS) without the napalm upgrade, it was ignored for a long time. Until People like me realized that the stun is actually quite good. REALLY good. So now that we have had ample time to understand the power of the stun upgrade, maybe we could revert the napalm upgrade? I don't know if everybody will just go back to using napalm if that's the case,as napalm pre nerf was extremely popular, it could give the hurricanes T5 some much needed competition (nitro rounds still suck though, we should also probably do something bout that too).

Hell, maybe it getting a nerf was healthy for the weapon, allowing people to switch off of napalm rounds and start using and realizing the potential of the stun upgrade! Well, that is if it hasn't been nerfed for this long. I also might've been part of the problem because after the nerf I was adamant that the napalm rounds were OP, but now? I think they're due for a comeback.- As long as stun doesn't get nerfed, that is. Please don't nerf the stun upgrade.

I should also probably figure out how to clean the insides of my computer. Maybe then I can bring back my DRG game into a playable state again so I can get back to weapon building with the upcoming season. The new OCs look really cool!

[kestrel]

i agree, napalm rockets never should've been nerfed. stun is the only viable option for a majority of GRS builds because it's the only one that can compliment them, rather than needing to work around them

napalm only works if you have a high-damage build to offset the damage loss. the only options which come to mind are BABBA frag missiles or CABBA minelayer. maybe JFH as a stretch but it's just not worth the damage loss when JFH exists to kill ♥♥♥♥ outright. for every other build the mod just reduces your damage output for weak ignition power and, for some builds (especially rocket barrage) makes the weapon borderline unusable

the minigun has hot bullets, burning hell and aggressive venting, all of which let you ignite enemies extremely quickly for no damage loss. if the minigun can have those options i don't see why napalm had to be nerfed so harshly. it's like you say, the stun mod is extremely powerful in its own right. i don't see why having two strong mods in competition with one another isn't allowed

[Frisky]

Napalm rounds IMO has never been a problem before it was nerfed, volatile bullets was the real problem and napalm took the fall for it

IMO pre-nerf napalm was fine and I'd actually say even then stun was the better option for most cases, but napalm was the more popular option because of both volatile bullets and lets face it a lot of players are gonna find setting things on fire a lot more appealing than a stun regardless of which is more useful

the only way I've found use in napalm rounds is with minelayer, which does compliment napalm well due to the high damage making up for the penalty and stun being slightly counter-productive to minelayer since you want enemies to continue walking over the mines and not being stopped, any other build with napalm though and it just feels like I'm throwing away too much damage for a DoT that isn't able to keep up with what the original weapon did just fine on it's own

also yeah nitro rounds suck, at this point I think they need a rework, either changing how the damage is added or just replacing it with something else alltogether

[Chibbity]

I still prefer Napalm over Stun for Minelayer specifically but for any other build yes; Stun is better.

[babuk.fracal]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

I still prefer Napalm over Stun for Minelayer specifically but for any other build yes; Stun is better.

How much does fire minelayer has to offer ?

I am testing a lot of unorthodox builds with Gunner these days, so I'll probably try it.

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by babuk.fracal:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

I still prefer Napalm over Stun for Minelayer specifically but for any other build yes; Stun is better.

How much does fire minelayer has to offer ?

I am testing a lot of unorthodox builds with Gunner these days, so I'll probably try it.

Well the two main selling points are that:

A: It's not Stun, and Stun is counter intuitive to getting bugs to walk into more mines.

B: The extra damage from Minelayer offsets the nerf to Fire.

[kestrel]

Originally posted by babuk.fracal:

How much does fire minelayer has to offer ?

I am testing a lot of unorthodox builds with Gunner these days, so I'll probably try it.

minelayer's 2.75 AoE damage multiplier is more than enough to overcome the -%33 damage penalty of T5A. you can still kill grunts and slashers in two rockets and leave them to die from afterburn. this also sets up combos with volatile bulldog

[Dr. Atomic]

I love napalm rounds + necro thermal catalyst with controlled magnetic flow on coil gun.
1. Set bugs on fire;
2. Swap to coil gun;
3. One fast click;
4. Bugs go boom.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Frisky:

Napalm rounds IMO has never been a problem before it was nerfed, volatile bullets was the real problem and napalm took the fall for it

Then you remember wrong. Volatile bullets wasn't the problem. The problem is that it was NTP for hurricane for free with 100% chance of proc, allowing for a massive amount of ammo economy. Just from one weapon mod.

[babuk.fracal]

Originally posted by kestrel:

Originally posted by babuk.fracal:

How much does fire minelayer has to offer ?

I am testing a lot of unorthodox builds with Gunner these days, so I'll probably try it.

minelayer's 2.75 AoE damage multiplier is more than enough to overcome the -%33 damage penalty of T5A. you can still kill grunts and slashers in two rockets and leave them to die from afterburn. this also sets up combos with volatile bulldog

After testing it, it can be pretty strong.

[Torres, The Devourer]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Frisky:

Napalm rounds IMO has never been a problem before it was nerfed, volatile bullets was the real problem and napalm took the fall for it

Then you remember wrong. Volatile bullets wasn't the problem. The problem is that it was NTP for hurricane for free with 100% chance of proc, allowing for a massive amount of ammo economy. Just from one weapon mod.

oh shoot, I forgot to mention that. The hurricane already has pretty fantastic ammo economy, especially if you count your rockets, and Napalm made that stronger. That's why I worry that if it gets fully reverted, everybody will just switch back to napalm without a thought. So maybe we could revert it, but maybe add some sort of penalty to go along with it? What that penalty could be, I don't know.

[Torres, The Devourer]

Originally posted by Frisky:

Napalm rounds IMO has never been a problem before it was nerfed, volatile bullets was the real problem and napalm took the fall for it

IMO pre-nerf napalm was fine and I'd actually say even then stun was the better option for most cases, but napalm was the more popular option because of both volatile bullets and lets face it a lot of players are gonna find setting things on fire a lot more appealing than a stun regardless of which is more useful

the only way I've found use in napalm rounds is with minelayer, which does compliment napalm well due to the high damage making up for the penalty and stun being slightly counter-productive to minelayer since you want enemies to continue walking over the mines and not being stopped, any other build with napalm though and it just feels like I'm throwing away too much damage for a DoT that isn't able to keep up with what the original weapon did just fine on it's own

also yeah nitro rounds suck, at this point I think they need a rework, either changing how the damage is added or just replacing it with something else alltogether

Kestrel had a cool idea that went something along the lines of; as long as the rockets are still in the air, the area damage increases. I really like that idea, although I would prefer it to buff direct damage over Area damage personally.

[babuk.fracal]

Was pre nerf napalm round close to the current napalm minelayer ?

because if yes no wonder it got nerfed, being able to do that at any range is way too strong

[Frisky]

Originally posted by Mark, The Devourer:

Kestrel had a cool idea that went something along the lines of; as long as the rockets are still in the air, the area damage increases. I really like that idea, although I would prefer it to buff direct damage over Area damage personally.

I remember that idea, though I recall it being the rockets getting a damage boost when they hit max speed

either idea regardless is a lot more useful though than current nitro rounds

[kestrel]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Then you remember wrong. Volatile bullets wasn't the problem. The problem is that it was NTP for hurricane for free with 100% chance of proc, allowing for a massive amount of ammo economy. Just from one weapon mod.

comparing napalm to NTP is ridiculous. if you had ever used NTP optimally during its prime, you certainly wouldn't be making this comparison
fire does less damage, doesn't slow enemies down and takes multiple shots before you actually ignite an enemy. NTP had a fixed %50 chance to proc on a weapon which often carried twice as many shots as any GRS build. the time it takes to ignite enemies with GRS is often as many shots as it takes to roll a successful NTP proc
im not even gonna get into calling volatile bulldog "not the problem"

Originally posted by Mark, The Devourer:

Kestrel had a cool idea that went something along the lines of; as long as the rockets are still in the air, the area damage increases. I really like that idea, although I would prefer it to buff direct damage over Area damage personally.

i want them to make T5C give rockets a fixed damage boost once they reach top velocity, something like %15-%20. it stays with the idea of keeping rockets in the air but also gives the mod more flexibility and synergy with builds like JFH and rocket barrage (the latter of which desperately needs the help)

[SCamp]

Napalm Rounds wasn't the problem. Dwarves who use Volatile Bullets should be ashamed. You should have toned down your skill and not brought attention to the Hurricane.