Is there a useful build for the single turret engy build?

[Archmage MC]

IT just does less damage, less damage per ammo, and even has less synergies with turret OCs over the double one. Is there a build thats even useful for it?

Same for 5b, the long range turrets.

[Chris!!]

Not really.

[elire01]

No.

[Chibbity]

It uses up your ammo at a slower rate, so it's a more sustainable option; at least.

[Sokaku]

I have one build that I run the MkII, mainly for ammo economy for the sentry. Of course you can do this with Gemini by deploying just 1 turret, but you get one with a bit more punch and range, plus carries more ammo per deploy. I run Turret Whip with either Defender or ocassionally Hawkeye on this build. So a 2-1-1-* build, ammo over quick deploy since I only have to build the 1 turret.

Honestly though I think that the Mk2 and Defender should swap damage bonus, so +5 for Mk2 and +2 for Defender, then extend range to +10m or +15m. The current +5m is pretty much unnoticeable.

[ネル]

- none on vanilla. it might even become a distraction by reloading those damn turrets while the bugs are swarming you.

[SCamp]

MKII vs Gemini

MKII is the "low maintenance" option. It exists to be convenient. There's nothing wrong with using it. I recommend using 2111 since that's how you get the most bang for your buck in Total Damage. (Though I'll always be using quick deploy instead of ammo. QD is too convenient.)

Gemini is "high maintenance" since it's more flexible with the ability to leapfrog turrets, gives an extra turret to proc EM Discharge or Turret Whip, is almost required for Turret Arc (S5 lessens the need) is able to quickly clear swarmers and does more DPS and total damage without ammo in T2. I run 2211.

You're going to be babysitting your turrets in different ways. Though you'll probably graduate to Gemini.

===

Defender vs Hawkeye

Defender is just better.

Hawkeye is pure utility slave: It exists purely to support Turret Whip. If I absolutely had to build it, then I would pick x122 or x222. Then I would only drop turrets as a CC tool, mostly using one at a time. Aim it and the stun will keep the enemy in place for Turret Whip.

With Hawkeye, you can pick either Gemini or MKII. Hawkeye+Gemini exists to get more ammo and the option to drop a second turret for leapfrogging, the DPS doesn't matter. Hawkeye+MKII exists for ammo longevity and killing speed against swarmers (3 hits -> 2 hits).

Turret Whip works just fine without Hawkeye. There isn't much reason to use Hawkeye, honestly.

[eMercody]

Increased turret range usually just wastes ammo tbh. It’s a little fiddly to get turrets to shoot where they’re consistently getting the most value out of their bullets.

[Phytophyte]

In ANY decision, the fewer criteria that you use to evaluate your choices, the more objectively superior that one choice will be. If you only look at DPS, the only option worth considering is Defender Gemini turrets.

Playing Haz 5 solo, I personally find that a Quick-Deploy Hawkeye Mk. II turret is great for exploration-based or mining-heavy missions like Mining Expedition, Egg Hunt, and Point Extraction. Plonk the sentry down in a massive chamber and it will quickly let me know where all the bugs and leeches are, which saves me a lot of flares looking for them. Listen for the sentry gun to fire, and I get a free heads-up when bugs are sneaking up while I have my back turned. It allows me to work much faster and more safely, very useful.

[King Fossil]

In the old days gemini was a damage multiplier instead of a flat bonus, so MKII was a lot better (in fact, it was the good option and gemini was the one that sucked). But now that its damage bonus doesn't get multiplied it kinda sucks. It's easier to take care of than two turrets so if you're incredibly lazy you can go with that, but in that case why not just play gunner and not bother with turrets at all?

[The man, the myth, the leg]

what do you mean by it does less damage per ammo?
unless the game or stats are bugged it doesnt. yes, gemini have more dps, but mk2 is more ammo efficent

i personally use quick deploy mk2 with defender on all of my builds
place the turret anywhere where you will stay for a loner time. with the fast deploy speed and low ammo consumption you should be proactive with your turret placements and recalling

turret discharge is also a solid OC if you do want turret sinergy

[Nightwolf]

On a good team the answer is no the engine is a support class, using it for anything like a turret build is a complete waste.

On a bad team that’s different. You can build the single turret to provide a dps burst to supplement a bad gunner or a bad team in general.

It would be worth having a good build and bad build assuming you know how to read teams going in and don’t use quick join

In reality you need to run a solo build and never trust your team to be anything but terrible. If you absolutely know your team is reliable going in then you run the support build to complement the team as a whole

[HZ THE GREAT]

I am probably a weirdo since I personally prefer MKII + Hawkeye. I only play Haz 5 solo and I found that Engineer does not really need more anti-crowd damage output with his all secondary weapons. They are all good in dealing with big swarms in close distance(Gemini + Defender do the similar). Comparing to other classes, engineer does not have an instant maneuver for survival-critical moment(gunner has shield, scout can kite around, driller can bunker up. ) I use turret as a sentinel to warn myself against unnoticed threats as I play solo.(There will be a new type of enemy which can render themselves invisible in upcoming new season) As to the manual aiming system of Hawkeye, it is helpful in getting rid of weak but dangerous threats such as webbers and spitter when I am busy in dealing with waves in solo game. It requires some mind power, but I believe it is worthy.

[SCamp]

Originally posted by The man, the myth, the leg:

what do you mean by it does less damage per ammo?
unless the game or stats are bugged it doesnt. yes, gemini have more dps, but mk2 is more ammo efficent

i personally use quick deploy mk2 with defender on all of my builds
place the turret anywhere where you will stay for a loner time. with the fast deploy speed and low ammo consumption you should be proactive with your turret placements and recalling

turret discharge is also a solid OC if you do want turret sinergy

We look at Total Damage for turrets because they take too many shots kill common and large bugs. Gemini and MKII have roughly the same total damage. MKII just uses its ammo pool slower, which gives the illusion of ammo efficiency for turrets. There aren't any major breakpoints we care about among common/large enemies.

The only HP breakpoints we do care about are Haz4/5 swarmers (14.4), shredders (38.5) and spitters (47.88). Which are low enough to calculate, and the largest ammo savings in regards to breakpoints. (Other popcorn type enemies lie in "Always 1 shot" or "Always 2 shot" territory, which just favor's Gemini's ammo.)

Note that there are better breakpoints for other difficulties and you're free to calculate those yourself, but let's just say that MKII doesn't have major advantages over Gemini in regards to tiny enemy breakpoints in the difficulties that Haz4/5 players care about.

================
No T2 ammo
================

Gemini + Defender : 515 x 11 = 5665 total damage
MKII   + Defender : 425 x 13 = 5525
MKII   + Hawkeye  : 425 x  8 = 3400
Gemini + Hawkeye  : 515 x  6 = 3090


================
With T2 ammo
================

MKII   + Defender + Ammo : 515 x 13 = 6695  total damage
Gemini + Defender + Ammo : 605 x 11 = 6655
MKII   + Hawkeye  + Ammo : 515 x  8 = 4120
Gemini + Hawkeye  + Ammo : 605 x  6 = 3630


================
Comparison
================

MKII   + Defender + Ammo : 515 x 13 = 6695  total damage
Gemini + Defender + Ammo : 605 x 11 = 6655
Gemini + Defender        : 515 x 11 = 5665
MKII   + Defender        : 425 x 13 = 5525
MKII   + Hawkeye  + Ammo : 515 x  8 = 4120
Gemini + Hawkeye  + Ammo : 605 x  6 = 3630
MKII   + Hawkeye         : 425 x  8 = 3400
Gemini + Hawkeye         : 515 x  6 = 3090



* In order of total damage.
* Note that MKII+Hawkeye actually beats Gemini+Hawkeye in total damage for their respective cases.

[Alzarath]

If Mk 2 could get to 15 damage so it would one-shot Swarmers, I would probably use it.

[SCamp]

Originally posted by HZ THE GREAT:

I am probably a weirdo since I personally prefer MKII + Hawkeye. I only play Haz 5 solo and I found that Engineer does not really need more anti-crowd damage output with his all secondary weapons. They are all good in dealing with big swarms in close distance(Gemini + Defender do the similar). Comparing to other classes, engineer does not have an instant maneuver for survival-critical moment(gunner has shield, scout can kite around, driller can bunker up. ) I use turret as a sentinel to warn myself against unnoticed threats as I play solo.(There will be a new type of enemy which can render themselves invisible in upcoming new season) As to the manual aiming system of Hawkeye, it is helpful in getting rid of weak but dangerous threats such as webbers and spitter when I am busy in dealing with waves in solo game. It requires some mind power, but I believe it is worthy.

I heard about your warning system gameplay style from a couple others but that was a while ago before Lok1 and SSG came out (and power crept Hawkeye).

I'm not sure how stalker invisibility in S5 will work against turrets. But since they have Menace behavior, just incentivizes taking stun to stop the bastards long enough to get domed before they start digging.