Struggling to find a place for satchels in my build

[chester]

Currently running a cryo vampire build with a wave cooker that has temperature amplifier and exothermic reactor. I've got most bases covered: axes on frozen enemies for strong single target damage, and wave cooker freeze chains for vaporizing big groups.

Aside from saving ammo for my other weapons (which are already very ammo efficient), I don't see much of a reason to use satchels during regular swarms, especially with the risk of friendly damage. Using them primarily for mining/destroying terrain seems like a waste. I'm fairly weak against bulk detonators, so I could spec them for single target damage against those, but using them primarily for a single rare enemy also seems like a waste.

The best way I could think to use them is for clearing out an area to revive someone during a big swarm, since I could essentially throw the satchel right on top of them without worrying about friendly fire (or self damage if I'm using iron will), and it'd probably be the fastest way to clear a packed area.

I'm not sure what upgrades I should use if I go down this route though. Would I really need the extra charge in tier 1? Or should I go for extra damage? And would bigger blast radius or fear radius be better for tier 4?

I'm willing to hear other suggestions. Also feel free to reply with your favorite joke about blowing up scouts.

[Sir T]

I mainly use mine for excavating jewels or other terrain destruction jobs. I found them just too dangerous to use on enemies, Using it to clear a revive is a decent idea, but without a fear effect they would probably swarm right back

[Smetrix]

Do whatever. I usually just opt for maximum blast radius, since I find that to be more useful than damage, which it does more than enough to insta-kill regular grunts anyway.

[Frisky]

using them for bulks is a terrible use IMO no offense, not only do bulks have explosive resistance (50% less damage from) but they're very high HP and danger up close means getting in range to drop one is high risk-no reward, laying one down for it to walk over is also not really worth waiting on, also volatile compound upgrade I don't recommend if you play with randoms, it has a hidden downside that lowers the braincell usage of all teammates by 90% meaning they'll 100% spam as much splash damage in your area as you lay it down, setting it off early and downing you

I'd say using them with ammo and carve radius is far from a waste, it's a great way to quickly remove a ton of rock in an instant and the 4 total charges means you get 2 per supply, you can still use them for crowd clear or a boost in single target in a pinch but being able to clear areas in an instant for better wiggle room is incredible

or you could do what I do and take frag shell and use them for AoE, it's not that useful because driller has tons of AoE but god is it satisfying when you blow up a giant horde of glyphids

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by Frisky:

using them for bulks is a terrible use IMO no offense

It's also likely to destroy the weakspots (without getting the bonus damage) so the rest of the team will hate you.

[Chibbity]

If you don't need them for AOE, build them for carve, you can do some fun and interesting things terrain wise with a few well placed C4's; and you can do it in a hurry.

Also, bug's don't tend to spawn on slag (which C4 leaves) which opens up some interesting options for controlling where bugs do and don't spawn.

[Zargothrax]

If you really don't find yourself using them for combat then speccing them for terrain clearing is fine, I admit that I myself find using them for mining to be a waste but the extra carve radius is really nice when you really need it.

You can still get decent damage and utility out of them even when specced for carving so you aren't gonna lose much either way.

[chester]

Damn, I just watched a quick satchel guide and maybe I underestimated how useful it could be for opening up a swarm area. I've just been using my drills this whole time.

I've been running both ammo upgrades with bigger blast radius, so I'll stick with that and try to utilize it more as a tool than a weapon. I still think it could be really useful for helping to revive teammates, but my friends don't go down enough for me to reliably test it. I'm sure that'll change once we get to haz 5 lol.

[True Winger]

Eliminate the terrain to increase your team's line-of-sight.

Or use it to improve navigation by removing troublesome cave structures, like before a Dreadnought fight.

Extra damage on the C4 is especially useful on the Caretaker. Any other situation is risking friendly fire, especially with one-hit-kill potential.

Never thought of using Fear with it. Perhaps useful for revives, as OP stated, or in other emergency situations, which can happen fairly often for me if my Driller gets separated from the team and is low on ammo.

Might have to try Combat C4 with Combat Drills and report back.

[chester]

Originally posted by RickWinger:

Might have to try Combat C4 with Combat Drills and report back.

Feel free to! Seems like I need to do some experimenting myself.

[Zargothrax]

Originally posted by RickWinger:

Never thought of using Fear with it. Perhaps useful for revives, as OP stated, or in other emergency situations, which can happen fairly often for me if my Driller gets separated from the team and is low on ammo.

Stun is kind of just the better option 99% of the time, it's much more consistent and gives a lot more breathing room than fear tends to. It's also better against flying enemies than fear is.

[True Winger]

Originally posted by Zargothrax:

Originally posted by RickWinger:

Never thought of using Fear with it. Perhaps useful for revives, as OP stated, or in other emergency situations, which can happen fairly often for me if my Driller gets separated from the team and is low on ammo.

Stun is kind of just the better option 99% of the time, it's much more consistent and gives a lot more breathing room than fear tends to. It's also better against flying enemies than fear is.

I have found Stun to be an extremely useful mod to use on pretty much everything. Thank you for the idea!

[GIRL]

Originally posted by chester:

Damn, I just watched a quick satchel guide and maybe I underestimated how useful it could be for opening up a swarm area. I've just been using my drills this whole time.

You mean a bunker? Yeah, don't make bunkers. That's a Greenbeard trap. They can be useful in niche scenarios but on higher difficulties you're usually screwing yourself by making one.

Also, personally, I hate Drillers who use a satchel for the "room" in a bunker. It makes the floor dip in, which is really annoying unless an Engie makes a floor over it. The point of wall bunkers is that you drill a long tunnel so you can shoot straight down it. Carving out the room with C4 and making a huge dent in the floor ruins the entire point of that.

[chester]

Originally posted by Femboy Thighs:

Originally posted by chester:

Damn, I just watched a quick satchel guide and maybe I underestimated how useful it could be for opening up a swarm area. I've just been using my drills this whole time.

You mean a bunker? Yeah, don't make bunkers. That's a Greenbeard trap. They can be useful in niche scenarios but on higher difficulties you're usually screwing yourself by making one.

Also, personally, I hate Drillers who use a satchel for the "room" in a bunker. It makes the floor dip in, which is really annoying unless an Engie makes a floor over it. The point of wall bunkers is that you drill a long tunnel so you can shoot straight down it. Carving out the room with C4 and making a huge dent in the floor ruins the entire point of that.

Nah, not bunkers. I meant using satchels to make an existing room bigger. I've heard mixed things about bunkers and I don't think I'd ever use them.

https://youtu.be/bfzCi2TqVF8 this is the video I watched

[Siphonophorous Shenaniganry]

Some missions (like Escort) make it easier for you. a) you have a sexy tunnel you know enemies will be passing through and b) since you are moving for like two thirds of the mission you don't don't screw your team over by making holes in the ground. Otherwise you can lay a trap in narrow tunnels.

Other missions are less suitable for this. Unless you have an Engineer or at least not dense Engineer I wouldn't do this when defending anything static. Exception is placing it on the wall, sometimes on low ceiling, and occasionally on the Drop Pod during Salvage Operation. Still, gotta be careful. When defending, such explosion could even wipe out your team. Destroying terrain is also a matter of skill since an unfortunate explosion can provide enemies cover or hinder your movement.

Sometimes during a swarm when half of it magically attaches to you you can lead them on for a bit and then smack the resulting death ball with a well placed C4. Sometimes it can be used to clear enemies around fallen allies, especially if they died in awkward places like inside a wall or something.

It's also a nice way to trigger Dreads without having to be there.

I go ammo, killswitch, ammo, fear. So combat-oriented rather than for blasting terrain. Friendly fire is a risk-reward. Still worth it imo.

[Qua2ar]

C4 with the stun upgrade are the best, it's great area CC, that even affects flying enemies, it allowes you to stun a whole wave of bugs with one move, it does dmg too. This is usefull for your team aswell. The affected area is huge.