Deepcore 40mm

[Das D]

Hi,

Coming back after a few years I'm disappointed to see that the extreme balance discrepancy between the deepcore and the breachcutter hasn't been fixed. I'm still working on unlocking the new weapons so I can't speak to those.

The breachcutter does 5x damage in an insanely larger area and on larger mobs where the beams have more time to connect will do even more damage than the deepcore while actually having more ammo. I may sometimes pick a weapon that is not as good but is more fun in games but in this case the difference in power is so incredibly absurd that I can't help but feel compelled to use the breachcutter, albeit I would rather use the grenade launcher from a flavour perspective.

When seeing the damage output one would expect the breachcutter to have an ammo reserve of around 2-3 shots. The devs actually acknowledge this by limiting the grenade launchers ammo capacity to this amount when allowing it to approach a higher damage output via the Fat Boy overclock, so why this is overlooked is besides me.

Personally I don't mind the breachcutter to stay as it is, but I would like to see the deepcore ammo reserve be adjusted, maybe to around 30 or more. It would still not be as good by a large margin, but now one could justify taking it on the mission and have fun goofing around with it. As it stands the limited ammo amount makes me never really use it, only when needed and when I do use it it's rather underwhelming as compared to one-shotting entire waves including larger mobs with the breachcutter and then still having ammo to spare on it.

After this is done adjustments to the deepcores damage and aoe could be looked at as well.

At the end I want to add that I do like this game alot minus the horrible rng mechanic for overclocks. I got 7 weapon overclocks and 2 weapon skin sets for the scout class which I literally never play before I got anything else. Seriously I have 0 xp in scout class to this day and I do not intend to change that. On first gunner promotion today I received an overclock for the engineer class rather than for the class that I was promoting. These kinda issues show you why you don't rng for this kind of stuff.

Outside of this I do like this game alot, thank you for your time.

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by kestrel:

"trash mobs" make up 60-75% of most swarms though. That's hardly a "lack of use cases".

[Aratorin]

Originally posted by kestrel:

i mean that's not the problem. 30-round PGL would be pretty funny tho

PGL's issue is its lack of use cases. it blows up trash mobs and that's basically it. its terrible mod tree doesn't help either, especially when it has several options that either just don't work or are objectively useless (armour break, homebrew, inertia inhibitor)

it's better for raw waveclear than the breach cutter because a large AoE is better for hitting multiple bugs than a static projectile but it's completely worthless against HVTs. this is usually where the discrepancy of BC being "better" than PGL comes from because it can do double duty as crowd control vs single target. its only problem being that it's very terrain dependant to do waveclear

PGL should have some direct damage built-in that's able to get weakspot bonus. moving some of the damage from hyperprop into the gun baseline would be a good way to achieve this. adding more mods that let it fulfil more roles other than just "more ammo vs more damage" would also help a lot since its mod tree is basically just minmaxing grenade damage breakpoints vs ammo count in relation to overclocks

Why is it useless against HVTs? It either sets them on fire or breaks their armor, and makes them turn around so you can shoot their soft bits with your primary.

[Aimee]

Originally posted by kestrel:

PGL should have some direct damage built-in that's able to get weakspot bonus. moving some of the damage from hyperprop into the gun baseline would be a good way to achieve this. adding more mods that let it fulfil more roles other than just "more ammo vs more damage" would also help a lot since its mod tree is basically just minmaxing grenade damage breakpoints vs ammo count in relation to overclocks

Agree, its a shame that there is no direct damage build without that overclock.
PLG is a bit boring when it comes to build options.
Its either; Big AoE low ammo, mid AoE high ammo, single target damage.
The nuke does help a lot, and the Hyperpropelant is quite nice for a change. But it wouldend hurt to have more build options imho.

[doomerinthedark]

Originally posted by Das D:

thank you for your time.

jokes on you, i didint read the whole thing!

[Johnno]

Originally posted by Forceful_Multiverse6059:

Originally posted by Das D:

thank you for your time.

jokes on you, i didint read the whole thing!

*Joke's
*I
*didn't

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Originally posted by kestrel:

PGL's issue is its lack of use cases. it blows up trash mobs and that's basically

"trash mobs" make up 60-75% of most swarms though. That's hardly a "lack of use cases".

That's what I'm saying. In most loadouts I build one gun for "trash mobs" and one gun for single target. Depending, maybe one gun for general use instead.

PGL being able to clear swarms with one click is literally all I could ever want, provided I have another gun for generalist or single target. ... Which I do.

[Jack left town]

PGL has nuke
Bread Cutter has spinny thing
No contest
Basic PGL is very bad, yes. You require more overclocks. Bread cutter overclocks are all bad, so it's good without them.

[King Fossil]

Main problem with breach is that it's good at everything. Grenade launcher is good against groups or can be good against single targets (and only single targets) with hyper prop. Meanwhile breach is good against groups and good against single targets by default. And has more ammo than grenade launcher. It's just good at everything. Dumb.
Breach is harder to use than grenade launcher so it's fair that it's a better weapon, but it's way too good. It should be a little better, not this much.

wait kestrel already said that
well

[Das D]

Did an elite deep dive today and was asked to play engineer. I noticed the following:

As mentioned by others, much higher density so there's plenty of opportunity to blow up blobs so the deepcore feels more usable. Damage against single targets is pitiful comparatively, I noticed I use the deepcore more to strip the armour off praetorians and to interrupt their breath or halt them from advancing with the stun mod. Against boss mobs like dreadnought I felt kinda useless, while I could've melted them with breachcutter.

I noticed several times standing in a corridor with an entire wave crawling down it that I could've cleared in one-shot from breachcutter. People seem to forget a decent chunk of this game is comprised of tunnels. Also with a little bit of kiting and aligning you can get decent lines.

I noticed getting swarmed and simply dying because there's endless mobs just crawling up on you from behind during waves making it difficult to use the deepcore because you're standing at point blank, so again I felt breachcutter may be better.

And as someone else mentioned, with breachcutter I can do both trash and bosses, so I'm still wishing I simply had more ammo on the deepcore or had the damage brought up to do decent hits on bosses.

[Chibbity]

The cope is real lol.

Only good build for BC is spinning death, because atleast then you can have a hologram dance party.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

The cope is real lol.

Only good build for BC is spinning death, because atleast then you can have a hologram dance party.

Until you watch me murder with inferno.
Imo spinning death is way too niche to be good.

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

The cope is real lol.

Only good build for BC is spinning death, because atleast then you can have a hologram dance party.

Until you watch me murder with inferno.
Imo spinning death is way too niche to be good.

Niche?! Who doesn't like to dance?

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

The cope is real lol.

Only good build for BC is spinning death, because atleast then you can have a hologram dance party.

You don't like breach because it's an energy weapon. I understand that (I don't like crossbow because it's a crossbow), but it's stupid to pretend that it's actually a bad weapon because of that. All you're doing is making people who don't know you think you're clueless.
Say "I don't like breach because it looks dumb, if you use it you're a big nerd", hit post comment, walk away from the thread in slow motion like a cool guy. That's all you need to do.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Until you watch me murder with inferno.
Imo spinning death is way too niche to be good.

Niche?! Who doesn't like to dance?

Do you hate me more if i say yes or if i say i'm indifferent about it?

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

You don't like breach because it's an energy weapon. I understand that (I don't like crossbow because it's a crossbow), but it's stupid to pretend that it's actually a bad weapon because of that. All you're doing is making people who don't know you think you're clueless.
Say "I don't like breach because it looks dumb, if you use it you're a big nerd", hit post comment, walk away from the thread in slow motion like a cool guy. That's all you need to do.

I thought the joke was pretty obvious lol.

Clearly it has more uses than making a laser light show to dance to, but yes, I don't like it from a fluff perspective because it's an "energy" weapon, but more so because it's a slowing plasma style weapon; The Laser for comparison is great. I also hate Crossbows in general, but the crossbow in DRG is actually so good I like it lol.

Also, OP has an extremist stance about the PGL, so I'm countering that with an extremist stance about the BC; so he can see how silly it sounds from the other end.

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Do you hate me more if i say yes or if i say i'm indifferent about it?

Nah, jokes aside, I'm with you on that; I don't dance, swim, or sing; unless someone's life is on the line lol.