DRG Mythbusters: Lost Helmet Cave Spawns After Scanning

[Lord Of War]

Hello and welcome to 2nd DRG Muthbusters!
Recently, I saw a brief discussion on pre-spawn cave for the lost helmet. Does it spawn before, does it spawn only if scanned... I myself got intrigued!

Somehow, I got very lucky today to record this: the cave spawns after scanning.
Watch from 10sec:
https://youtu.be/cRIVNQ1Z3qQ?t=10

[Torres, The Devourer]

I once found a lost pack before I even found the helmet. It was an elimination mission in magma core.

[dragonbornzyra]

I'm willing to help with this if you need an additional miner.

[Define Brackish Water]

This would be a pretty easy thing to test if we could replay seeds. Is there a mod to make that happen?

That way we could get a lost helmet to spawn, see where it spawns, and then play the map again and mine in the same spot before scanning it to see what happens.

[Chris!!]

Gear caves spawn when you scan a helmet, it's not pre-placed on the map. I know this because back in the day when mods were not officially supported I had access to a spawn menu that let me fill the map with helmets, and they'd spawn gear caves in places I've already explored or dug through.

[CCShad]

Alright, I booted up some sandbox mods, and played the same mission with the same seed 3 times in a row to settle this once and for all: Confirmed, the lost equipment, it's little hole, and it's minerals DO NOT EXIST until the lost helmet has been scanned by a dwarf. It doesn't spawn naturally when the rest of the terrain is generated.

https://youtu.be/n-5IEIrKg_I

[Lord Of War]

Originally posted by Define Brackish Water:

This would be a pretty easy thing to test if we could replay seeds. Is there a mod to make that happen?

Looks like there is!

Originally posted by CCShad:

Alright, I booted up some sandbox mods, and played the same mission with the same seed 3 times in a row

CCShad, well, 1st time you scanned and located the cave. 2nd you tried to pre dig into it and the cave spawned in a different, though close, area. Finally, 3rd time the cave was where it was for the 1st test.
I wonder now what happens if you pre dig into both places :D

[SCamp]

Originally posted by Lord Of War:

Originally posted by Define Brackish Water:

This would be a pretty easy thing to test if we could replay seeds. Is there a mod to make that happen?

Looks like there is!

Originally posted by CCShad:

Alright, I booted up some sandbox mods, and played the same mission with the same seed 3 times in a row

CCShad, well, 1st time you scanned and located the cave. 2nd you tried to pre dig into it and the cave spawned in a different, though close, area. Finally, 3rd time the cave was where it was for the 1st test.
I wonder now what happens if you pre dig into both places :D

It will select a different place.

Algorithm is likely similar to:

0) Generate seed number.
1) Use seed to select unseen terrain near to original cave generation and select an appropriate enough distance away, carve loot cave template.
2) If position is compromised, seed+1.
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 until successful spawn.
4) Beepbeepbeep give armor coordinates to scanner.

[Valhalla Awaits]

Can already confirm the hidden cave exists before the helm is found. I've accidentally tunneled into several of them by sheer luck before.

[Paintbrush]

my guess is the cave is hidden on your map until you scan the helmet. otherwise spawning a cave with minerals mid mission would probably cause a lag spike. Maybe. I dont know.

[Deadweight]

Originally posted by Paintbrush:

otherwise spawning a cave with minerals mid mission would probably cause a lag spike. Maybe. I dont know.

yeah, it already CAN cause lag spikes. on my old computer scanning the helmet on some caves would make my game stutter

Originally posted by CCShad:

snip

should do it with c4 next just to "really be sure" lol

[Femboy Thighs]

I'm almost positive the room is there beforehand. I remember a mission where I was just mining gold and noticed a tiny opening in the wall behind the vein. Opened it up and it was a little room, exactly the same shape and size as a helmet room. Found the helmet later, scanned it, and sure enough there were minerals and gear inside it now.

This was a long time ago, however. And I didn't think to get a before-after screenshot for evidence.

[Samaldafadra]

Originally posted by CCShad:

Alright, I booted up some sandbox mods, and played the same mission with the same seed 3 times in a row to settle this once and for all: Confirmed, the lost equipment, it's little hole, and it's minerals DO NOT EXIST until the lost helmet has been scanned by a dwarf. It doesn't spawn naturally when the rest of the terrain is generated.

https://youtu.be/n-5IEIrKg_I

This is very weird to be honest because I have found some treasure rooms before scanning helmets a long time ago, thanks to lootbugs : they gather around the area that contains the minerals if the terrain is thin. But it was a long time ago maybe the devs changed it.

[CCShad]

I think the reason that so many people think that it spawns in before scanning the helmet is due to experiences where another player in the match scans a helmet without mentioning it.

I've come across a few that were exposed without having scanned the helmet, but a quick ask in chat got a teammate to say "Oh, yeah I scanned the helmet".

It's a very commonly shared rumor, but still a myth. I've confirmed it in 3 ways: The video above, watching the minerals spawn and fall into the room from above after scanning the helmet, and using sandbox mods to spawn in multiple lost helmets and scanning them (each one creates a new pocket & lost gear).