About dread twins regeneration.

[Night_Sniper]

Alright... I wanted to talk about that for a while, actually. We know dread twins, Arbalesr and Lacerator are kinda linked in terms of health. And sometimes they regenerate during the fight.

But here is the thing. I see SO many people hate this particular dread with what seems to be a single argument of theirs. "They regen several times, its not fun".

Alright, thought I, some people may not like any form of regen, which is fair. But again and again I see the same thing. People focusing out one of the twins during the whole fight, running outof ammo and complaining about "bs regen" when the fight is finally over.

Its been quite a while at this point. And people still don't understand its easier to chop down both twins at the same time? Im not talking about newbies, they have a right to be new and not understand something. Heck, I even teach them how their health works and how to fight the twins.

Im quite used to reminding people to not focus on just one dread whenever Im hosting. And most of the time we either have a fun fight or I have to explain why and we have a fun fight.

Right, let me get this down. Here's a tip for you all. Twins will not attempt to heal up if their health is about the same level. There is a failsafe that FORCES them to attempt healing when one of them hits 50% HP, but in that case the amount of healing will be negligible, not more than a few autocannon shots.

The smaller the difference in health when they actually try to heal - the less healing the more hurt twin will receive. As it will never exceed the health level of the other twin.

Literally just play the fight fair and shoot both of the twins. This will be much easier, and much more fun, in fact.

Rock and Stone!

[Derpykat5]

I think the problem comes from this being an uncommon mechanic; usually you want to focus one enemy down to take it out of the fight so the pressure drops while you mop up the other one (which is exactly what this mechanic is designed to prevent). There's not a whole lot in the game itself that explains how this works.

[Night_Sniper]

Originally posted by derpykat5:

I think the problem comes from this being an uncommon mechanic; usually you want to focus one enemy down to take it out of the fight so the pressure drops while you mop up the other one (which is exactly what this mechanic is designed to prevent). There's not a whole lot in the game itself that explains how this works.

Honestly, I've seen more "double" fights that punish you for killing bosses one by one. Most of the times the second boss gets "enraged" after he loses his protege. This also happens there, but its much less noticeable, compared to the more obvious healing mechanic.

[Action Gooseman]

Originally posted by Night_Sniper:

Originally posted by derpykat5:

I think the problem comes from this being an uncommon mechanic; usually you want to focus one enemy down to take it out of the fight so the pressure drops while you mop up the other one (which is exactly what this mechanic is designed to prevent). There's not a whole lot in the game itself that explains how this works.

Honestly, I've seen more "double" fights that punish you for killing bosses one by one. Most of the times the second boss gets "enraged" after he loses his protege. This also happens there, but its much less noticeable, compared to the more obvious healing mechanic.

Yes, however it is often easier to focus on one with enhanced attacks than it is to split your attention on two. Furthermore depending on how the bosses are implemented killing one will full heal the other like with Ornstein and Smough.

[Ittrix]

I used to volunteer at a bird sanctuary. When I first learned to handle raptors, I was told that then was the safest I'd ever be while doing it.
Because I was nervous. I'd be thorough and check over things repeatedly.
Most people who got hurt by raptors weren't nervous. They were confident and missed something important.
So, I was told to stay a li'l nervous and never get a big head. Respect the bird.
(On a side note- who do you think drowns more often? People who *can* swim or people who can't?)

I have found this advice applies to a lot more than birds. People get confident in their ways and miss obvious things; then they get burned.
A lot of veteran players could use the advice. It's painful how thoroughly some people will dig their heels into the ground on what's a 'good weapon' or a 'bad weapon', or how to kill the twins because they know they know best.

Me? I like shooting whichever one has the most HP. I'm sorta keeping an eye on both so I don't get blasted anyways, so I can do whatever. Then they don't regenerate or become invulnerable for awhile.

[Sokaku]

I do see the occasional experienced team get caught out trying to blitz Lacerator while ignoring Arbalest just because that's what's in their face the whole time. (So I usually try to focus on Arbalest) What is annoying is that they know the damn things heal, but it is pretty clear that the healing process is *not* an "averaging out", the lower twin is gaining a lot more health than the higher twin is losing, so you are wasting a LOT of ammo by trying to rush the fight rather than taking your time and knocking the two back at the same time.

Another pet peeve is watching people shoot at the damn things during the healing phase, wasting even more ammo. It's not a big ask to glance up at the health bars before opening up on them or simply noting they cannot be hurt during that phase. It's a furstratingly effective design. It tricks players into wasting ammo trying to rush to save ammo.

Overall I'm always reluctant to join Haz 4 Elimination games unless I know the whole team is competent. The tactics against them still work, but the dreads punish mistakes a lot harder, both in terms of how hard they hit, but more importantly how much ammo they soak up. A team wasting ammo is one that's likely to get wiped as everyone's scrambling for resupplies mid-fight.

[Aimee]

Originally posted by derpykat5:

There's not a whole lot in the game itself that explains how this works.

Thats true for every enemy in the game, they dont tell you how to deal with any of it.
This game has a lot of content and game mechanics and it takes time to learn them.
You dont get told to shoot weakspots on enemies either like praetorians or oppressors.
Neither do you get told how the other dreadnaugts work, what stages they have, and when you can damage them or not.

Its realy a matter of looking at the info given (grey health bars etc) and learning from that.
The twins are no different, when the player focuses on one them and does not manage to kill them fast enough, then they regenerate. This happens every time till you learn the mechanic. If the player in question looks at the healthbars given on the hud, they could gather info like;
- if the health difference of the twins is too much they heal.
- depending on difference in health, the healing of the most dammaged twin scales up or down.
- when they heal the hud shows greyed out hitpoints, and they dont take damage from fire for a short while.

From that info one could gather that its better to spread out damage on both of them, resulting in the following info provided at a player that pays attention;
- if you spread out the damage on both twins enough, they dont heal.

Those are the 4 game mechanics, and players can learn them, just like for any other enemy in the game.

[Cress]

I haven't really heard much complaints in regards to the twins, in fact it's definitely my favourite dread fight!

The "ultimate strategy" to beat them isn't always going to happen, and there are a variety of reasons why this may occur:

1) The Arbelest likes to spawn away from the action, hide, go into weird places, etc.
2) You have no option but to run down a tunnel or split up, separating the two.
3) People are dead and require reviving.
4) More hypothetical situations...

So you have 2 options at that point- either shoot and reset them, or stand there holding your ♥♥♥♥♥ and see where it goes. Most people choose the former, and it's debatable whether or not that is an optimal choice; I am unsure myself, but I lean towards resetting.

I don't recall having many ammo issues, so not sure where you're hearing/experiencing this. If noobs are literally just focusing one the entire fight and not understanding the mechanic, then sure, but I imagine that's incredibly rare even on lower difficulty.

Are you sure these people aren't just bad at the game as a whole rather than just the Twins?

[Frisky]

one thing worth pointing out if your in pubs: A huge majority of players will focus the lacerator most since they're on the seefood diet of shooting things

You can help counterbalance that by simply focusing the arbalest yourself which is what i do normally

[NeloDante]

I still focus on one of them due to the pressure being done in my face in Hz5 with no ammo problems whatsoever. Brute forcing works.

Sure, the optimal way is to split the damage but when one is Karl-knows-where and the other is biting your chesthair you just hit the one bitting you while trying to survive.
And again, sure, the rest of the team could focus the other one but when your options are looking for Nemo or help a friend who's having a weirdo getting way too close, you kinda wanna save your mate regardless of needing more nitra/time.

[MrPurple33]

Never had a problem with the twins- by far the easiest of the 3 Dread Encounters to do, and I play mostly Solo

Never had ammo problems, never really had a "tactic" for going after one type over the other or weakest or strongest

I just try to kill the closet one to me, then shoot the farther away one when the closer one pops into the walls- yeah I see some healing being done, but I have good aim I guess, and pump out way more damage then they can heal

The Twins have no extra armor, and after fighting so many Menaces, which also pop in and out of walls, that part never throws me- In fact one of the Twins
(Arby's Less, Lacto Intolerant, I never bothered to Learn the names, Thing One and Thing Two works for me) - anyway, one of the Twins will pop up close up on me 85% of the time, I take some hits sure, but I unload on him, usually dies after 5-6 attack runs, during which the Twins only try to heal 1 or 2 times- when he gets real close I'll Power Pickaxe him as well

Playing as Scout can sometimes take Longer, I use the AI assisted DeepcoreAR, which does Less damage than my Gunner, Engie, and Driller Loadouts, but conversley, the AI assist DeepcoreAR then tracks and shoots the farther away one quicker- tend to get balanced damage with Scout on the Twins- that's the only difference I see, besides Gunner with Big Bertha kills fastest, but then again Big Bertha kills EVERYTHING fast

[Deepest Blue]

I noticed that one will actually lose health if you nuke the ♥♥♥♥ outta the other. they even out health pools, and that sometimes means the higher health one loses some. idk the exact numbers, but it's interesting.

[Aimee]

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

I noticed that one will actually lose health if you nuke the ♥♥♥♥ outta the other. they even out health pools, and that sometimes means the higher health one loses some. idk the exact numbers, but it's interesting.

The highest health one always loses health, depending on the difference between the two in health and the hazard level this scales.
Focusing down one, means that the other one loses health the moment they start healing eachother.
However the health the one with the most hitpoints loses, is always less than the health the lowest one heals.

Thats why its more effective to spread out the damage and not focus on one if you can help it. It kills them faster most of the time and costs less ammo.

[Himars-TT]

I get why the regen mechanic is considered annoying, but I think the reason it's annoying is because often times you'll see one but not the other for a majority of the fight which leads to a lot of regen.

Arbalest pathing seems kinda borked at times so you'll see Lacerator, whack the dickens out of it, and then both will dig out into some inaccessible tunnel to regen, and then rinse and repeat. If that bit was improved I think the Twins would feel a lot better.

[Aimee]

Originally posted by toxictorta:

I get why the regen mechanic is considered annoying, but I think the reason it's annoying is because often times you'll see one but not the other for a majority of the fight which leads to a lot of regen.

Arbalest pathing seems kinda borked at times so you'll see Lacerator, whack the dickens out of it, and then both will dig out into some inaccessible tunnel to regen, and then rinse and repeat. If that bit was improved I think the Twins would feel a lot better.

Fun thing is, you can improve it yourself :)
Go into a larger more open cave, there is always atleast one in the game (hint: spawn) often more than just one.
There you never have that problem, and can always see both of them.

[Cop Unit 12]

TBH I just don't like elimination as I find it to be the 2nd worst game mode outside of egg collection (yes I like escort, shutup and start shooting (just make it so engi can put his turrets on 4 placable points on dorreta and farther reaching lasers for the fuel canisters and boom fixed)). But I understand that the twins can equalize health during the healing phase the 2 main problems I have with it are this.
1. The Arbalest is the single most devastating unit in the game when it's alone. Even when it's low on health it can easily kill a entire team + 3 other teams and Karl with it's AOE 1 hit kill full shields attack along with consonantly burrowing and being at range makes it harder to damage compared to the Lacerator let alone kill.
2. The Arbalest and Lacerator are almost as bad as fighting 8 Mactera tri jaws on haz 5 on Haz 4. Near and or 1 hit kills full shields, more aggressive then the normal dreadnought and the near endless burrowing that the Arbalest does makes it a nightmare to even try and kill either one of them.

TLDR: The normal dreadnought is a joke compared to a lone pissed off Arbalest and it's easier to fight 3 normal dreadnought on haz 5 then 1 solo Arbalest on haz 4 and I'm betting Karl died after he killed 5 Lacerators without killing Arbalest with his hands.