Sticky flame OCs are not the best sticky flame builds.

[Penhad]

Oy.

I used to run Sticky fuel OC, loved it, until I realized Sticky fuel isnt the best sticky flame build, in fact it may be the worst (this is probably well known among vets).

I'v been running Compact feed valves for a while now, its nearly as effective but so much better QoL. With sticky fuel I was using half my mods to compensate for the ammo penalties. But with CFV, bim 75 extra ammo + 25mag size, it's not even really needed, but it's some good comfort that removes almost entirely the need to be careful with ammo. The change in ammo from 34 is a good addition to that too. Lighter tanks works too, but the penalties CFV has are near insignificant so why not grab that +25 mag.

Besides, any sticky flame over 10 seconds is a huge waste imo. Who needs a damn 14s sticky flame !? I make it 8 seconds now with CFV and it's more than enough, im even considering making it as low as 5s with fear instead of sticky duration in tier 4, to make good use of all that extra ammo.

Sticky additive is a good middle ground with fear and 6s sticky flame, probably the best balance, I just like the extra ammo from CFV better for fear effect, which requires more ammo to use effectively.

There, I just wanted to share this. Generally, the ammo buff from 34 is as nice as it was needed, it makes the weapon much more viable and enjoyable in a wider variety of builds now. Yes, even facemelter.


edit: little clarification. I am not saying sticky flame builds are bad, on the contrary. I'm talking about my preferences on certain OCs built around sticky flame more than direct dmg.

[Vault Traveler]

I tried to read it but all I saw was heresy.

[Scuzz MB]

I've done extensive work with many many flame builds and while I'm not prepared to make the definitive statement that you are right on this (because it's play style and preference I never ever tell any players anything is definitively better than anything) but you're on the right track with most of your observations. HOWEVER...

Hands down, if I want pure sticky destruction, I'm still going to go with with the Sticky Fuel OC because between the direct damage and the +5 bonus walking in fire damage nothing stands a chance against it when you build it sticky and slow.

Currently I run 2-3-2-2-1 with it which gives an insane 11 second sticky flame duration, good flame reach, 11 base damage and the icing on the cake is the Slooooow down that KEEPS the targets walking in the flames away from you while they are taking the bonus damage. Even though you get a meager 300 +25 fuel/tank size, it's very ammo efficient once you learn how to use it. Basically a quick mouse click dollop of flame will melt single or a couple targets. You can blanket rings of fire at only a few ammo cost between you and approaching swarms. It's just incredibly fun to use.

For pure Spray and Pray flames and no holds barred destruction and damage with absolutely no concerns for Ammo I'm currently loving Compact Feed Valves with a little bit of sticky duration but no slow down. You can just lay down mass destruction with that.

[Night_Sniper]

*reads the title*
"Every reply will be about heresy, right?"
First reply:

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

I tried to read it but all I saw was heresy.

Well played.

Honestly, I just dont understand why should I use sticky flames in the first place. Like, okay, I wanna burn them down, not manage a f*cking minefield.

Im still using the upgrade that slows enemies down, but I use it only because its THAT good at slowing down praetorians (which is preety OP combined with heat upgrades and fire-based subata)

[Chibbity]

Sticky flames 4 lyfe.

There are no other builds.

[Night_Sniper]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Sticky flames 4 lyfe.

There are no other builds.

Okay, jokes aside for just a moment, please.
Why noone ever mentions anything about heat building builds or, maybe, direct damage builds?.. I mean, I like to run a simple flamer, specialized into heating targets up ASAP, its fun and pops bugs burning in a click...

I get it, sticky flames are nice, but it doesnt mean other kinds of fire are... Bad.

[Frisky]

sticky flames are REALLY strong but they aren't downright needed to play driller well with a flamethrower
my build is actually just damage + ammo most of the time, sometimes I'll run sticky flames, but most of the time I like directly setting things on fire instead of shooting the floor constantly, it's more satisfying to me that way

[Scuzz MB]

Originally posted by Night_Sniper:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Sticky flames 4 lyfe.

There are no other builds.

Okay, jokes aside for just a moment, please.
Why noone ever mentions anything about heat building builds or, maybe, direct damage builds?.. I mean, I like to run a simple flamer, specialized into heating targets up ASAP, its fun and pops bugs burning in a click...

I get it, sticky flames are nice, but it doesnt mean other kinds of fire are... Bad.

It's just preference. Pure direct damage flame builds really require a completely different cadence to how you play and people probably don't discuss it quite as much because it more closely approximates how you play with any direct damage projectile weapon whereas good sticky play requires a bit of "artistry." There's nothing wrong with going direct damage, I just feel that over time I've had a lot more success at the higher Haz levels with sticky and slow builds.

[SCamp]

Dwaves that use sticky flames are often the turds that drew pictures all over the floors and walls in kindergarten. I also like eating crayons.

[Penhad]

haha. If liking different builds makes me an heretic, I will gladly be one.

Seriously though, I didnt mean any of those sticky builds is bad, quite the opposite. I know well the value of sticky fuel for I've run it a long time, but now I simply like that CFV hybrid build better for its versatility value.
It's sufficiently ammo efficient. Fear is great on praets too with volatile subbata for obvious reasons. Slow + fear is quite fun, watching the bugs turn back into the sticky flames. Some time ago I argued here that sticky + fear pretty much sucked, but since 34 and improved fear I have revised this opinion.

To me, it's the best of both worlds.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Penhad:

haha. If liking different builds makes me an heretic, I will gladly be one.

Seriously though, I didnt mean any of those sticky builds is bad, quite the opposite. I know well the value of sticky fuel for I've run it a long time, but now I simply like that CFV hybrid build better for its versatility value.
It's sufficiently ammo efficient. Fear is great on praets too with volatile subbata for obvious reasons. Slow + fear is quite fun, watching the bugs turn back into the sticky flames. Some time ago I argued here that sticky + fear pretty much sucked, but since 34 and improved fear I have revised this opinion.

To me, it's the best of both worlds.

It depends what you want to do with in the end. CC, dot (well sticky fire is sort of a dot), aoe, direct dmg or a combination.

To me in 9/10 cases, fear isn't worth picking.

[Nosteru]

Originally posted by Night_Sniper:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Sticky flames 4 lyfe.

There are no other builds.

Okay, jokes aside for just a moment, please.
Why noone ever mentions anything about heat building builds or, maybe, direct damage builds?.. I mean, I like to run a simple flamer, specialized into heating targets up ASAP, its fun and pops bugs burning in a click...

I get it, sticky flames are nice, but it doesnt mean other kinds of fire are... Bad.

I used sticky flame once when I first tried Swarmageddon. I didnt liked it much.
My build is about balanced damage, reach and max fuel instead. Im using the clean OC with +75 ammo. with increased reach my flame go 15 meter(?) with 15 damage. I used extra ammo whereever is possible and explosion on direct kill as last tier. I play Haz4 solo with this build and Subata with homebrew OC, fast reload, damage and extra damage on heated target. As im abit bad aimer this build allow me to shoot like crazy on bugs without worry on weakpoint hit.

[Vault Traveler]

Originally posted by Night_Sniper:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Sticky flames 4 lyfe.

There are no other builds.

Okay, jokes aside for just a moment, please.
Why noone ever mentions anything about heat building builds or, maybe, direct damage builds?.. I mean, I like to run a simple flamer, specialized into heating targets up ASAP, its fun and pops bugs burning in a click...

I get it, sticky flames are nice, but it doesnt mean other kinds of fire are... Bad.

Personally I simply like facemelter, pure damage.

[Night_Sniper]

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

Originally posted by Night_Sniper:

Okay, jokes aside for just a moment, please.
Why noone ever mentions anything about heat building builds or, maybe, direct damage builds?.. I mean, I like to run a simple flamer, specialized into heating targets up ASAP, its fun and pops bugs burning in a click...

I get it, sticky flames are nice, but it doesnt mean other kinds of fire are... Bad.

Personally I simply like facemelter, pure damage.

Raw d a m a g e.
I like to heat up things cause it ignites them and I love when they https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lcmqpPgQpiQ

[moerty]

sticky flames leave you at the mercy of macteras is the main reason i stopped using it, every time a mactera swarm appears you have to find or make a tight space so that they can come to you. you can still take them down otherwise, you'll just be completely out of ammo for when you need it.

[Ittrix]

I've actually never had ammo problems with sticky flames. You use so little to do so much more, so it evens out.