M1000 Classic

[Bongoboy]

I Love Sniper Rifles.But for some reason I do not like the M1000 Classic in Deep Rock Galactic.

Reason no1: it doesn't do enough damage. A Focused Shot should ... kill any and all of the normal enemies, that being Glyphid Grunt and Glyphid Grunt Slasher, ... Glyphid Grunt Guard's should be close to death.

Reason no2: that Focused Shot should not take more ammo to shoot. Focused Shot already has a charge time which also makes you run slower.

The next thing I dislike is there is no Overclock I like.

• Hoverclock - Nice utility, which has some uses.
  
• Minimal Clips - Not bad, but seriously +16 max ammo? And reloading is not really the big problem.
  
• Active Stability System - This is not bad either, but you loose some of what you want, Focus Shot Damage Bonus.
  
• Hipster - This is one of the worst ... If this would make the M1000 Classic shoot in full auto Mode like the Drillers Automatic Fire overclock fine, but this one makes my carpal tunnel rub grin with glee (a problem that is shared by the Drillers Experimental Plasma Charger)
  
• Supercooling Chamber - With this one we get somewhere. This is not that bad as it raises Focus Shot Damage but it limits what you are already tight on ... ammunition, not to forget that now Focus Shot Charge Time is longer ... and those are already not too fast.
  
• Electrocuting Focus Shots - This one here is actually not bad. You hit a target and that then runs slower and takes 48 damage over 4 seconds. The problem is it also lowers direct Focus Shot Damage Bonus again.

My main problem is that if a OC is interesting, it always lowers the direct damage Focus Shots do and/or reduce the maximum amount of ammo I can carry. Both are a no-go for me as I am already tight on ammo as is with those huge swarms. And the Double Barreled or Zhukov Nuk17's can not catch that ... though the Zhukov Nuk19 is close to being able.

What do you guys say to this? What is your experience? I would love to hear your input on this, if you regulary play Scout with the M1000 Classic ... feel free to enlighten me. I try my hardest to like this Rifle, but all of the Overclocks feel meh to me.

[HH2k]

yup, i think they should reward a focus shot by either more dmg than currently or only use 1 ammo, since it takes significantly more aiming skills compared to other weapons in the game. The gun needs a buff big time and the OCs like u mentioned are pretty ♥♥♥♥.

I can litetarly consistently hit 3-4 headshots with the GK2 to kill a grunt, but m1k is way harder not to mention the decreased accuracy when running. The whole gun just doesnt make sense. Do they want a high skill(aim) high reward weapon? because the skill ceiling is there, but the reward is very underwhelming

[Bongoboy]

@Rogue Combo Rack
Yeah, the Deepcore GK2is ... even without any Overclocks very Very VERY good. Use that AI Stability Engine and it shoots slower ... but if you are skillful you can make most of those shots hit mouths/heads.
Or you use that Overclocked Firing Mechanism and go max Shooting Speed. Eats through your ammo like 5 bugs through your shields ... but it tears Glyphid Praetorian a new one.

What the M1000 Classic needs is some form of better ammunition management(like 1 bullet cost Focus Shots), Overclocks that raise the Sniper Gunplay by increasing Focus Shot Damage Bonus without taking away some other Sniper Essential items.

Like that Supercooling Chamber Overclock is a good start, make it reduce movement speed to 0(stationary) ... while increasing the Focus Shot Damage Bonus ... but do not take away Max Ammo and Focus Charging Speed.
Instead make i have more spread when Hip Fired and additional Recoil when Hip Fired so that it forces you to stand still and Snipe with this Overclock.

[King Fossil]

M1 already does one shot slashers with charge shots. It does 220 damage with a charged mouth hit and slashers only have like 180 hp on haz 4/5.
Also charge shots need to take more ammo. If they were to only cost 1 bullet per shot then the devs would have to nerf total ammo carried or you'd have way too much total damage. So basically charge shots would play the same as they do now, but normal shots would be screwed since you just cut their ammo in half and gave them nothing in return. All you did was remove options.

[0ptimistPrime (the Gray)]

Originally posted by Lithariel:

I Love Sniper Rifles.But for some reason I do not like the M1000 Classic in Deep Rock Galactic.

I don't think the M1000 was ever intended to fill the role of a sniper rifle, but instead is a battle rifle.
And while I am no expert on this topic, I do believe that these two classifications of rifle are quite notably different[en.wikipedia.org].

Originally posted by Lithariel:

Focused Shot should not take more ammo to shoot. Focused Shot already has a charge time which also makes you run slower.

The M1000 was changed in November of 2019[deeprockgalactic.gamepedia.com], making Focused Shots take 2 bullets. They balanced this at the time by almost doubling the weapon's max ammo (50 to 98). So today you effectively get the same number of focused shots you used to when the gun only expended 1 bullet per focused shot... you just get more shots if you choose to hipfire now.

If you were somehow able to convince the devs to change the weapon back so that charged shots only used 1 bullet, we'd probably see the max ammo get cut in half as well. So the only thing you'd be hurting is hipfire builds, and wouldn't be doing anything for focused fire builds at all.

Originally posted by Lithariel:

The next thing I dislike is there is no Overclock I like.

I agree that the OCs feel mostly underwhelming. I use the M1000 over the GK2 because I like and want that burst damage. If my OC is killing my burst, I'd rather take the GK2.
So I go with increased Minimal Clips or Hoverclock. The latter is a huge boon when excavating without the aid of Engineer platforms, while the former is just a flat (though small) increase to ammo; I don't even notice the difference in reload speed.



I was on the fence about the changes to M1000 when the End Game pt.2 update dropped a year ago (linked above), but my objections were almost exclusively because I could only fire 4 charged shots per magazine after the update instead of the previous 5 charged shots.
But I adapted rather quickly.
With the exception of Overclocks, I don't personally share any of the grievances you have with this weapon. And even if there were some better OC's, I might still not switch off of Hoverclock. So even that shared point of contention isn't terribly off-putting in my eyes.


edit: as a parting thought...
I acknowledge that it can be occasionally frustrating to focused-shot a Mactera Spawn and see it survive with a sliver of health, but it doesn't ruin the game or weapon for me. I just swap to my NUKs and finish it off.
At the same time, I've found it very convenient to hipfire a grunt in the face to one-shot it and save myself some ammo. So in my experience, there are certain benefits that outweigh certain apparent downfalls; it's all a wash in the end.

If you don't enjoy the weapon after plenty of use, and experimenting, and customizing of upgrades and OCs, and pairing it with various combinations of secondaries/grenades/perks to look for interesting synergies, then it may just not be for you.
I'm really not a big fan of the GK2. Everyone's experiences and preferences will differ.

[GIRL]

M1000 always seemed weird to me. In a game about whacky space-bug-fighting space Dwarves who are often too drunk to know what they're even doing, a weapon about precision and focus has always felt somewhat out-of-place.

Balance-wise, I think it's in a fine spot right now. I hardly use the thing, though, but when I do I enjoy it. I agree with the Overclock thing. It doesn't have many unique or wacky ones as the other weapons. I'd like something that helped Scout with crowd-control, like maybe getting kills by shooting a weak point would cause the target to explode into flames, igniting nearby enemies.

Would also love to see a "crossbow" Overclock similar to how the "Masterwork Crossbow" worked in Borderlands 3 (In case you don't know, it was a legendary Sniper Rifle with the special effect that it only had 1 bullet per clip, and the bullet would arc like an arrow. The benefit was that it dealt absurd damage if you could land it).

[Professor Hugedix]

I only use Supercooling Chamber, even after it was nerfed directly, because it's the only one that makes it feel like a sniper rifle, but scout has slid to probably my least played dwarf since the m1k itself was rebalanced.

[ONI]

M1000 works fine to me

[Vault Traveler]

My only gripe is Hipster OC i think a full fledged no focus fire M14 like gun would be dope.

[Unknown Player]

I find Supercooling Chamber to be the best. You just gotta keep in mind that the M1000 isn't for clearing crowds, but taking down tough stuff. Once you use your mobility as a scout to get a good shot, nothing is better at killing Praetorians and Dreadnaughts.

[Xune]

They need to had more base damage for focus shot, atm its useless to do a focused shot unless you play with the Electrocute/SC OC or T3 mod. Supercooling chamber have too many restrictions to be good.

The base magazine is a bit low (8), the reload time a bit long (2sec will be perfect).
The extended mag in T3 is a must have for most build, i would like to have a base "10 bullets in one magazine" so we can do 5 focus shots like before the nerf.

The killing machine mod feels a bit clunky to me, i'll love to have a more "hipster/hybrid build" option, maybe a DoT or some kind of control.

Hipster need a small buff to the magazine size and the damage or ammo.

IMO, only hispter and hybrid build both with blowthrough are good, the rest of the build are viable but it feels like the gk2 is better in every other situation when you dont need AOE.

[ShadowNeko]

its not a sniper nor ment to be, its a rifle.. m1 garand for dwarves

[WiseDuck]

I think the M1000 is in a good place and once experimental is out, the ammo upgrade in Tier 1 will give an additional 12 bullets, which means the gun tops out at 140 ammo and somewhere around 270 with the Hipster overclock I believe? Also, the stock focus speed was increased meaning that hipfire builds can make better use of the focus shot bonuses found in tier 5.

Hoverclock is an amazing utility that makes just about any ceiling minerals or hard to reach aquarqs easy to grab without taking any damage at all. Minimal Clips is my go-to for a clean focus shot build. A.S.S. I don't use, I don't see the need for full movement speed whilst focusing, if it's going to cost you the entire reason for using focus shots. (Effect + the 25% damage bonus)
Supercooling Chambers is very situational, but after the update you can take the ammo upgrade and that will bring your total ammo up to 93, which is just 3 bullets shy of the stock gun. But now you have 250% focus shot damage and almost the same ammo as the stock gun? Brilliant!

Elec Focus Shots is the big winner here, this thing is awesome. Take ammo, focus damage to keep it at 100% so you don't LOSE damage by using focus shots, faster focus, blowthrough and then precision terror on tier 5. You have plenty of ammo, each shot kills up to 3 grunts (even with body shots, the 4 second elec damage is just enough to kill grunts) and if a horde gets near you, kill any enemy with a focus shot to the face and the entire crowd will disperse. The fear effect has a 3.5m radius extending out from the enemy you just killed and the fear chance is 100%. So now you have a primary that is both a horde killer, that is also great for single targets AND the elec effect can be used to pretty much disable Bulk detonators.

I'd advice just giving it more time, the weapon is amazing but it does have a higher skill ceiling the GK2. I think only two overclocks need to be looked at in the future, those would be A.S.S. and Hipster. Hipster could do with a slight mag size upgrade and maybe a bit more ammo if they're not going to up the damage. I understand they simply can't make it one-tap grunts, since that would turn the overclock into a monster of a horde clearer, which is not what the Scout is supposed to be. As for A.S.S... The -25% Focus shot bonus kind of kills it for me, maybe remove that drawback and give the weapon another one. Like maybe a slower reload or something?

[Derpykat5]

I think the only thing the M1 actually "needs" is a minor buff to focus shot builds centered around raw damage. Currently the only actual reason to use focus shots is to proc the tier 5 mods unless you have a specific tier 3 mod that ups the damage by 12.5% (25% spread across 2 bullets). I think either that mod or the base weapon could use a focus shot damage buff of around 10-25%. Hipfire builds are beastly but raw damage focus shots just feels undersupported and not powerful enough.

[Bongoboy]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

M1 already does one shot slashers with charge shots. It does 220 damage with a charged mouth hit and slashers only have like 180 hp on haz 4/5.
Also charge shots need to take more ammo. If they were to only cost 1 bullet per shot then the devs would have to nerf total ammo carried or you'd have way too much total damage. So basically charge shots would play the same as they do now, but normal shots would be screwed since you just cut their ammo in half and gave them nothing in return. All you did was remove options.

As you said ... in the mouth maybe I am just a bad player, but sometimes ... when 10+ Grunts run around and the terrain is very unfavorable ... you down less grunts with a M1000 Classic then with a Deepcore GK2 and AI Engine.

I disagree with your calculation about "you'd have way too much total damage" ... most of the guns are clearly not balanced around total damage.
If a Charged Shot would cost 1 ammo like the Hip Fire, then the thing that Hip Firing has over the Charged Shot is time ... which should grant you damage in return.

But I agree ... if Charged Shots would cost one ammo like the Hip Shots then the gameplay would be enforcing to try to always use Charged Shots ... and I think the M1000 Classic is not only about Charged Shots.

@Optimist Prime (the Gray)
Thanks for the link, was a interesting read. And yeah, I think like just wrote to King Foss, the M1000 Classic would loose something if it softly enforced to be used for Charged Shots primarily.

Interesting, so they had a lower Max Ammo carried before for it. Honestly, for some reason for most guns taking the Max Ammo Increase Talents is almost always the better choice ... at least for me. The Plus Damage I never even felt heavily ... but I do feel it if I get more ammo out of a Resupply.

You are right, as is King Fossil ... I think it is good that you can Hip Fire the M1000 Classic ... and Charge Shoot it.
For the Over Clocks ... they should have made some Over Clocks favor Hip Firing and some favor Charge Shooting ... with something empowering both some (like that +Max Ammo and Reload Speed one, which is good but underwhelming)

Originally posted by Optimist Prime (the Gray):

I'm really not a big fan of the GK2.

I would love to hear, as to why you do not like the Deepcore GK2, I am very curious.

Originally posted by A Cardboard Box:

I'd like something that helped Scout with crowd-control, like maybe getting kills by shooting a weak point would cause the target to explode into flames, igniting nearby enemies.

Now that you say it, yes ... it is weird that they'd give such a weapon to drunk dwarfs.

The only thing that the M1000 Classic has, is a aoe Fear when you kill a bug with a shot to it's weak spot. But Despite me hitting consistent their mouth and gaster ... but I hardly see any Big running.

But yeah, I would definitely love to see more Over Clocks that cater to different gameplays, like a few more Focus Shot oriented ones and some more Hip Fire ones (maybe one that disables Focus Shots, gives you double max ammo and makes it shoot in a slow automatic mode ...).

@Professor Hugedix
Yeah I only play since 1.0, but even though originally I was going to either play Scout or Engineer first ... the Scout is not all that fun to me now. Part reason is that you find so many incapable Engineers running around which you have to beg to put up platforms, the other part is that the Scout feels too weak Weapon power wise.

@Momotaros
I expect a little bit more of a explanation of your thoughts then that. And if that is all you have to say about the subject ...

@Vault Traveler
Yeah. The problem is ... if you make the Hipster Over Clock autofire (like that Automatic Fire for the Subata120) then it would probably be too close to the Deepcore GK2 in gameplay. Why do that, if you can just select the Deepcore GK2.
So you would need to make it different, either by making it auto fire really slow ... slower then the slowest Deepcore GK2 mode. But then again ... it would be too similar would it?

Originally posted by Turd Storm:

You just gotta keep in mind that the M1000 isn't for clearing crowds, but taking down tough stuff.

I think that's the thing the Devs probably thought too. The Scout has the Mobility to just run away to the rest of the team, or let Bosco get to work.
Thought If you pick Super Blowthrough Rounds ... and if the terrain is favorable you can have some success with that.

The thing I dislike most at Supercooling Chamber is the reduction in Max Ammo. I could take the slower Focus Shot charge, or that I can't move ... but the cut to max ammo hurts too much.

Originally posted by Xune:

They need to had more base damage for focus shot, atm its useless to do a focused shot unless you play with the Electrocute/SC OC or T3 mod. Supercooling chamber have too many restrictions to be good.

That is how I feel, as I said ... a Charged Shot should kill a Grunt with one shot. Electrocute at least slows them though with 48 damage over 4 seconds ... which sadly does not seem to get increased in damage for Weak Spot Hits. If Electrocute would be a Tier 5 Mod instead of Killing Machine that be something.
Yeah I feel Supercooling Chamber does have too many negative restrictions to be good, for me the Max Ammo mainly.

I agree with you, that Hipster Over Clock should have more ammo, or there should be a Over Clock that does this.

Originally posted by Xune:

IMO, only hispter and hybrid build both with blowthrough are good, the rest of the build are viable but it feels like the gk2 is better in every other situation when you dont need AOE.

Thats my main problem ... the M1000 Classic feels like is gimped because you can also choose the Deepcore GK2 ... which in almost all situations is either as good or surpases the M1000 Classic.
Which leaves the M1000 Classic in a spot where only people pick it that do not like the Deepcore GK2 ...

[Bongoboy]

Originally posted by WiseDuck:

I think the M1000 is in a good place and once experimental is out, the ammo upgrade in Tier 1 will give an additional 12 bullets

What do you mean by "once experimental is out" ?

Originally posted by derpykat5:

Hipfire builds are beastly but raw damage focus shots just feels undersupported and not powerful enough.

That is what I dislike. I want to play with the M1000 Classic as a pure Focus Shot rifle. And for that it feels has underpowered Focus Shots.

But I just not like either of the two red Over Clocks ... with Electrocuting Focus Shots I doesn't feel like I really hit hard and with Supercooling Chamber I feel like max ammo is taken away for no apparent reason ... I could still live with the slower Charge ...