M1000 Focus damage breakdown.

[Sokaku]

I've been trying to dig up a breakdown of the M1000 focus damage build, but given it went through significant changes not that long ago I haven't really had much success tracking down reliable info. Ultimately I will probably spend some time on the weekend to play around with it but I thought I'd toss my thoughts/questions out there in case someone else can confirm...

Right now a base M1000 does 50 damage with a focus multiplier of 100%. Weakpoint hits add 10%. Focus shots take 2 ammo. So given the time needed to Focus (no stat) DPS would be lower using focus shots since you could land 2+ shots in the time to get one focus for the same total damage per clip.

DPS would improve with faster charging coils, improving focus speed by 60%. Still though, DPS with hip shots at moderate range would remain higher.

Only when you add Killer Focus do you get an additional 25% damage with a focused shot.

I don't see anything in the descriptions that seem to indicate that focus shots get any additional weakpoint damage modifiers that hip shots would not. Given you use twice the ammo with focus shots, without Killer Focus, Focus shots offer no more damage potential than hip shots.

The main justification for focus shots then really just becomes added mods like stagger / fear, or Hoverclock; That and obviously at range, landing (and hopefully not missing) a 2-in-1 hit on a target.

I can appreciate that a focused shot "zoom" is useful for helping place a shot at a weak point, but even with Killer Focus, the damage potential lost due to the 2x ammo cost just feels expensive. Especially that sacrificing Killer Focus is needed for a substantial clip size boost which focus builds would certainly benefit from. I also don't see the justification for taking a further damage penalty to remove the movement speed penalty with Active Stability System. Outside of gaining the stun/fear effect on the move..

Anyhow, I've been wondering if there's something I've missed with damage potential with focused shots.

[Mochan]

Don't bother with m1000 Focus. It is a junk build.

[Syncourt]

Didnt read the whole thing but got the point, yeah. Hipshot DPS is higher. Focus shot damage is just a more efficient alternative these days.

Originally posted by Mochan:

Don't bother with m1000 Focus. It is a junk build.

DPS isnt everything.

[Mochan]

Originally posted by Syncourt:

Didnt read the whole thing but got the point, yeah. Hipshot DPS is higher. Focus shot damage is just a more efficient alternative these days.

Originally posted by Mochan:

Don't bother with m1000 Focus. It is a junk build.

DPS isnt everything.

It literally is when you're talking about damage breakdown.

I am not saying nobody should run M1000 Focus builds. But if the question is asking about damage breakdown M1000 is just bad.

I'm someone who runs Neurotoxin over Carpet Bomb on Gunner. That should tell you what kind of silly stuff I run. People can run sub-efficient builds because as you say DPS isn't everything, but OP was asking about damage.

[King Fossil]

Focus shots are good with the overclock that makes them electrocute. It's nice being able to apply electrocute at any range with 100% reliability. If you use the piercing upgrade you can electrocute a bunch of enemies at once, even.
Aside from that they're pretty bad, yeah. You get better ammo efficiency with the damage upgrade but your dps is so much worse, and you need to reload constantly so that sucks too.

[Syncourt]

Originally posted by Mochan:

But if the question is asking about damage breakdown M1000 is just bad.

Sounded to me more like he was more asking what is the point of focus damage builds and if he missed something. Which he never mentioned the efficiency of it.

[Sokaku]

I'm not critical of the DPS, just expressing the overall damage potential. At close range I can hammer a full clip into a big target like a Praetorian or Dreadnaught backside. At mid range I can time 8 hipshots into a weakspot vs. 4 focus shots for pretty much the same damage. Focus shots can stun or apply fear though I don't think that is strictly enough with just a 25% damage bonus versus adding 6 rounds to the magazine. Especially only doing 175% to 200% damage /w half the ammo to do that "on the run".

I had tinkered with a hip fire build early on before I could get all of the upgrades, but now I guess I'll really need to tinker with it to see what potential I can reach with the non-focused shots. (using focus strictly for stunning Praets at range and 1-shot-ing Fleas) I tend to look for utility rather than just raw damage.

[Chibbity]

Focus vs. Spam is a simple trade off between burst potential and DPS.

[Sokaku]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Focus vs. Spam is a simple trade off between burst potential and DPS.

Yes, and if Focus shots used 1 round and simply took the extra second or so to "aim", even for less than double damage for a well placed shot I'd be happy as the DPS would be lower (fewer shots hitting a target in the same amount of time for a bit extra damage)

Dunno, if a Focus shot merely gave a 10% damage bonus and maybe 25-50% against criticals, but only used 1 round, (maybe a cooldown between shots) it would feel better.

Edit:
It's not really "spam" as at moderate range, spamming fire will have misses, but placing your (unfocused) shots will see you doing pretty much the same damage. You can take Killer Focus and deal an extra 100% damage emptying the clip provided you don't miss. Or you can take the expanded clip and deal an extra 600% damage before having to reload firing slightly to moderately faster.

[Chibbity]

Focus shots used to only take one round, but back then; focus was the only viable build for the gun.

The devs attempted to balance it so that multiple builds would be valid.

I think it's fair to say that while the gun is still totally usable with several builds, the community as a whole thinks it still needs tweaking.

[Mochan]

Originally posted by Dulk Betonator:

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Focus vs. Spam is a simple trade off between burst potential and DPS.

Yes, and if Focus shots used 1 round and simply took the extra second or so to "aim", even for less than double damage for a well placed shot I'd be happy as the DPS would be lower (fewer shots hitting a target in the same amount of time for a bit extra damage)

Dunno, if a Focus shot merely gave a 10% damage bonus and maybe 25-50% against criticals, but only used 1 round, (maybe a cooldown between shots) it would feel better.

Edit:
It's not really "spam" as at moderate range, spamming fire will have misses, but placing your (unfocused) shots will see you doing pretty much the same damage. You can take Killer Focus and deal an extra 100% damage emptying the clip provided you don't miss. Or you can take the expanded clip and deal an extra 600% damage before having to reload firing slightly to moderately faster.

I'd be perfectly happy with that as well. Right now Focus does less damage than hipshot, yet is harder to use and consumes just as much ammo. There is no reason to run Focus builds unless you just enjoy sniper gameplay. It needs to have some kind of benefit over the M1 Garand style build or it is pointless and becomes something people just do for flavor.

I don't see the "burst potential" at all you can do more damage in a quick burst with the M1 Garand build.

[Mochan]

Originally posted by Syncourt:

Originally posted by Mochan:

But if the question is asking about damage breakdown M1000 is just bad.

Sounded to me more like he was more asking what is the point of focus damage builds and if he missed something. Which he never mentioned the efficiency of it.

Well, if you are asking what the point of a focus damage build is, the answer is it's pointless because it does less damage than the other options.

Which is exactly what I said.

[Mochan]

Originally posted by Dulk Betonator:

I'm not critical of the DPS, just expressing the overall damage potential. At close range I can hammer a full clip into a big target like a Praetorian or Dreadnaught backside. At mid range I can time 8 hipshots into a weakspot vs. 4 focus shots for pretty much the same damage. Focus shots can stun or apply fear though I don't think that is strictly enough with just a 25% damage bonus versus adding 6 rounds to the magazine. Especially only doing 175% to 200% damage /w half the ammo to do that "on the run".

I had tinkered with a hip fire build early on before I could get all of the upgrades, but now I guess I'll really need to tinker with it to see what potential I can reach with the non-focused shots. (using focus strictly for stunning Praets at range and 1-shot-ing Fleas) I tend to look for utility rather than just raw damage.

For utility the best thing to use is the Electrocute overclock. Actually I'd say the Electrocute OC is the only decent focus-oriented build for Scout.

[Syncourt]

Originally posted by Mochan:

Well, if you are asking what the point of a focus damage build is, the answer is it's pointless because it does less damage than the other options.

Which is exactly what I said.

You'll get more kills from your ammo with a focus build with killer focus than you will without it/with hipfire.

It's just efficient and focus can completely lock down some enemies with stun while you kill them.

[0ptimistPrime (the Gray)]

imo, count your shots as often as you can. When you're down to the last single bullet in each magazine and you use it as a Focused shot, you get all the benefits while still only costing you that 1 bullet.

[gungadin22000]

It's kinda weird, hipfire builds are one of the things I don't really get in DRG. I've run a hipster build about a dozen times and each time it seems to be way more awkward to spastically pump half a mag into a single grunt than calmly downing an onrushing horde with 1 focused shot each. It also really doesn't seem like it performs massively superiorly versus hard targets such as dreads and has the added drawback of not being as accurate, requiring you to be closer to the scary bugs and risk being nommed.

This is likely just a playstyle thing, though - when playing a scout, I tend to provide far-range support rather than get into the thick of things. But I find it odd all the same that hipster builds are considered superior.