Breach Cutter nerf when

[CyperAleksi]

Something obvious, but not something that I've seen being discussed at all, despite browsing forums for a while.

[✖tasy]

Lol no, it used to be OP way back when, then it got obliterated by nerfs and weak for a long time, and now it is in balanced state.
When you talk about BC, you should remember that each weapon has it's purpose and utility. PGL is meant for clearing hordes and it does it great even without OCs, while BC is meant to take out big targets, hence why it has ridiculous dmg. So it is supposed to melt big targets in exchange for AoE cover potential.
Sure, you can utilize it with Return to Sender OC to do basically everything, but you will run out of ammo quickly even if you are stacked on nitra. You have to be smart and precise while using BC, otherwise you won't even uncover it's potential.
Anyhow, BC is balanced right now and actually takes skill to use, just like PGL.
It doesn't need any nerfs.

[Petralicious]

Y'all realize the BC can clear hordes easily with beam width (and optionally plasma trail for a discount Fat Boy damage field) as long as you line the bugs up, right?

Not to mention his grenades and turrets already smash hordes pretty well, and both primaries supplement that fantastically.

An indirect nerf could be reducing/removing explosion resistance on some bugs or moving some of the AoE damage (explosice type) to direct hit damage (kinetic type) on the GL so it can chunk big targets better.
The reason the BC melts is because it's damage type is not resisted by anything in the game (and it's complete unstoppability, it hits charge-suckers through BET-C's shield and apparently also the Tyrant Weed through it's shell).

[Kyle]

Kiting things to line them up takes skill and time. They are both AoE based, and the BC can also down tons of small things, yes. The deal is that the PGL does damage over a better, more traditional AoE type. A nice big circle of death, and with a far better range. Cone AoE is very situational and takes skill to set up.

Messaggio originale di Petralicious:

(...) Not to mention his grenades and turrets already smash hordes pretty well (...)

Exactly, I mentioned that point earlier. There are already more tools to deal with swarms of small guys in the game, but there aren't a lot of burst DPS sources. That's why everyone picks the BC. It adds more to the team's overall toolkit.

Just because it is the meta does not mean it needs a nerf.

[Fryskar]

Messaggio originale di WannaBeSpaceMarine:

I do not think it needs to be nerfed because it is a sidegrade to the PGL, not an upgrade. It trades the PGL's crowd control for a single target melter which gives engineer more options to deal with bigger threats than wasting half his shottie ammo. I will say that if you can kite it does work to melt around 10-20 enemies at once if they are in a line but the PGL does this in the 40-100 enemy range with OCs like Fat Boy while the Breach Cutter cannot unless you are a master at kiting. If you absolutely had to nerf the cutter it would be best to make it have a very slow ROF in line with the PGL as that would keep its ability to hit dreads for most of their armor but would remove the ability to melt detonators with 4 shots+beam reversal.

Imo fatboy is rather a trap for many.
Since more often than not, you won't get such large clusters, outsides of lucky moments in haz5.

Also BC doesn't really trade cc for single target dps.
It trades ease of use and range.

[Petralicious]

^ Usually, things are balanced around people who know what they're doing.
In those scenarios, the GL is a poor man's BC.
Also the "cone" damage becomes very easy to land with quick beam expansion.

Main thing is the BC bypasses everything in the game and you don't really go "wish I had a GL right now" when using it which is how other classes/weapons are balanced against eachother.

A good nerf would be a GL buff, too. Give it some niche, maybe more blast radius?

[Ailen]

Messaggio originale di William:

Kiting things to line them up takes skill and time. They are both AoE based, and the BC can also down tons of small things, yes. The deal is that the PGL does damage over a better, more traditional AoE type. A nice big circle of death, and with a far better range. Cone AoE is very situational and takes skill to set up.

Messaggio originale di Petralicious:

(...) Not to mention his grenades and turrets already smash hordes pretty well (...)

Exactly, I mentioned that point earlier. There are already more tools to deal with swarms of small guys in the game, but there aren't a lot of burst DPS sources. That's why everyone picks the BC. It adds more to the team's overall toolkit.

Just because it is the meta does not mean it needs a nerf.

I don't vote to it be nerfed, but BC is objectively OP. Even gunner don't have such a weapon that effecive against all targets in the game. I mean, autocannon is not the best choice against breeders, spitballers, menaces, but BC just destroy all the targets, that's the point. Even the easiest way to kill Bet-c is to spam BC through the wall.

[Kyle]

The downside to blasting everything with the BC is how much ammo it eats up, and it's shorter range. You have to be within a certain distance. The gunner definitely has better max range. Admittedly not usually a problem, but definitely worth mentioning.

The BC is a hard hitting, niche weapon. They have to include burst damage somewhere, somehow. If they gave that to the Gunner too, they would be absurdly powerful, they already have the best, most ammo-efficient primaries, hands down.

[Petralicious]

Messaggio originale di William:

The downside to blasting everything with the BC is how much ammo it eats up, and it's shorter range. You have to be within a certain distance. The gunner definitely has better max range. Admittedly not usually a problem, but definitely worth mentioning.

The BC is a hard hitting, niche weapon. They have to include burst damage somewhere, somehow. If they gave that to the Gunner too, they would be absurdly powerful, they already have the best, most ammo-efficient primaries, hands down.

Gunner revolver (especially with Elephant Rounds) already exists, and the BC is a secondary weapon for a reason - it's not what you constantly use.
You throw one into a well lined up horde and clean up with your primary.
I rarely have issues with ammo this way, plus a clean overclock for more ammo and damage exists.

[Ailen]

Messaggio originale di William:

The downside to blasting everything with the BC is how much ammo it eats up, and it's shorter range. You have to be within a certain distance. The gunner definitely has better max range. Admittedly not usually a problem, but definitely worth mentioning.

The BC is a hard hitting, niche weapon. They have to include burst damage somewhere, somehow. If they gave that to the Gunner too, they would be absurdly powerful, they already have the best, most ammo-efficient primaries, hands down.

PLG is niche weapon, mostly AoE trash cleaner. BC is universal weapon that effective against all targets, with negligible downsides.

[Kyle]

It takes more skill to use effectively than people give credit. Everyone doesn't have the same level of experience. I guess they're both niche weapons to different people ;)

Yeah, it's more effective than the PGL in most circumstances. Already explained that, but that's not necessarily the debate. It's the meta, but there are always pros and cons. To ignore those entirely is an odd choice.

Either way, it probably doesn't need much of a nerf.

[Dwarfurious]

I feel like that +6ammo mod at the start has been silly even pre-nerf, just such an obvious pick and a huge power boost.

[Scuzz MB]

[munching popcorn reading discussion] I don't want it nerfed, but it probably needs to be. Grunt masses on any remotely even terrain are melted instantly, macterra swarms drop like rocks in it's path... with an ammo build and the triple line thing its a massive game changer. I usually pop back and forth on other class's primaries...I've never even considered a non-BC loadout since I got comfy with the BC. Hard to nerf much without destroying it's effectiveness as a heavy weapon. Playing with the magazine size/reload times may be the best approach if they want to nerf it at all.

[Pocket Dog]

There's not much reason to use the grenade launcher once you unlock the BC, as it's just as powerful (if not more) and much more versatile. It's ammo limitations don't mean much due to it's power. It just destroys, well, anything, even Dreads. Once I unlocked the BC and modded it out, I've never looked back. It's power + versatility = the weapon of choice.

[Shakoris]

Messaggio originale di Pocket Dog:

There's not much reason to use the grenade launcher once you unlock the BC, as it's just as powerful (if not more) and much more versatile. It's ammo limitations don't mean much due to it's power. It just destroys, well, anything, even Dreads. Once I unlocked the BC and modded it out, I've never looked back. It's power + versatility = the weapon of choice.

Idk man. I like seeing things burn with circular AoE.

The reload is awful and the ammo isn't good either.

Messaggio originale di Petralicious:

Y'all realize the BC can clear hordes easily with beam width (and optionally plasma trail for a discount Fat Boy damage field) as long as you line the bugs up, right?

It's still a waste of ammo and a waste of time to line them up. You always can't line them up either depending on the enemy without dying.

[Ailen]

Messaggio originale di Shakoris:

The reload is awful and the ammo isn't good either.

You have 28 ammo in total in ammo build. It's A LOT of ammo, for weapon like this. 4 shots in magazine is more than enough to kill everything medium-sized that game gonna throw at you.

Messaggio originale di Shakoris:

It's still a waste of ammo and a waste of time to line them up. You always can't line them up either depending on the enemy without dying.

You save your ammo on swarmers, and you still have twice as much as PLG. Also, all that "lining up" thing Is concluded in waiting until bugs step on the floor. If you have triple line, then you can easily clean them from the walls too, but it's not much of a problem to me so i prefer a plasma trail.