[Issue] Kick/Ban System is Broke

[Dr. Rockso M.D.]

Let me start off by saying this game can be quite fun and addictive. Can be...

Currently, I've been experiencing a lot of random and unjustified kicks, especially when coming into groups of angsty children, usually groups of 2 (eg: the host who knows at least another teammate). I know this, as all of the TROLL hosts I've encoutered - who abuse the kick/ban system - hide their Steam profiles (hidden from recent players activity), but they probably don't realize their friends have them for public view, which makes it easy to add them to your 'blocked' list to avoid in the future.

This kick/ban system abuse is especially frustrating, after you have contributed to a majority of the workload and even in cases where you completely carry the team - collecting and actually completing the majority of the objectives, picking up fallen teammates (especially when no one else bothers), finding/activating and pointing out crate/helmet caches. Doing all the work and being a team-player. Helping where people need it, using your abilities and tools correctly and being a good sport.

I've not seen this kick/ban system used correctly even ONCE. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt and allow them to play to their hearts content, no matter how much or little they are able to contribute. Even with 'serial joiners' - those who join games at the very last moment, do not contribute to any of the objectives or mining or even kills, then wait for game-end payout and summarily disconnect, clearly uninterested in playing as a team and playing at least another round, off to their next host. I've not used this feature ONCE myself, as there is incentive for payouts and when I'm hosting in games with friends, I welcome people as I decided to opt for a PUBLIC game, I'm not a toxic player and I don't abuse my GUESTS.

The kick/ban system needs to be modified or straight up DISABLED, if deciding to host PUBLIC games. If you don't want people joining your game, DON'T HOST AS PUBLIC.

This system needs to be FIXED, per the following:
1) A host should ONLY be able to kick someone while still in the lobby - perhaps to make room for a friend (MAYBE also a minute into gameplay, for who knows what reason)
2) A host should NOT be able to kick teammates that are carrying and performing most of the workload (design in a simple check system to see whether those being kicked are actually contributing more than the host and others)

If the host, who decided to host a public game, decides they do not want to play with others, they should just quit out of the game and give a fair outcome for all parties - not benefit from other's work and kick/ban at a whim.

If the devs do care about improving this game, and fixing this system, it is easy to fall into the trap of adding vote(s) to the kick/ban system and allowing 2 people to vote-kick others out. If this is the way you plan to go, make it more than a majority, locked to 3 people (unanimous) to kick players. Even when the game only has 3 current players, they should not be able to kick without a 3rd. I've played too many multiplayer games in which troll buddies roll with each other (it takes just two) and wreak havoc, kicking and griefing others acting in good faith. However, I still suggest that you implement a 'CHECKS & BALANCES' on a kick/ban order to see whether the host is a troll and attempting to kick a productive teammate.

I think people generally play the game as intended and this negative experience is not *very common*, but happens *often enough*. Give power to those acting in good faith, not people who are looking to troll and grief - and benefit from such toxic behavior.
(If you want to do the absolute minimum amount of work to fix this issue, then allow the person kicked to walk out of the game with ALL of the objectives and minerals they collected - SUBTRACTED from the collective effort - re-generating the work for the host/kicker to do themselves, if they so wish. Don't incentivize crappy behavior and abuse of guests.

[Mage Hand, Wizard Brand]

Don't like toxic hosts? just host yourself, play solo, or find a group. None of the ideas that ever get suggested are gonna work, because it'll just fuel the trolls to some extent, or it will cause people to start complaining even more for one reason or another. Current system works fine enough, you can't mitigate the trolls completely, they'll always exist.
Host's game host's rules, if he says you should get kicked for no reason, he'll do it and not feel bad about himself since it's his lobby ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cactus-Cat]

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

This system needs to be FIXED, per the following:
1) A host should ONLY be able to kick someone while still in the lobby - perhaps to make room for a friend (MAYBE also a minute into gameplay, for who knows what reason)
2) A host should NOT be able to kick teammates that are carrying and performing most of the workload (design in a simple check system to see whether those being kicked are actually contributing more than the host and others)

But what should I do when a cheater joins? He will most likely have the highest kills and mining, which means I won't be allowed to kick him.
I would then have to abort the entire mission and kick him in the lobby. But he can just leave during the loading screen and I won't be able to ban him from the following mission.

[Mage Hand, Wizard Brand]

Originally posted by Lokimut:

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

This system needs to be FIXED, per the following:
1) A host should ONLY be able to kick someone while still in the lobby - perhaps to make room for a friend (MAYBE also a minute into gameplay, for who knows what reason)
2) A host should NOT be able to kick teammates that are carrying and performing most of the workload (design in a simple check system to see whether those being kicked are actually contributing more than the host and others)

But what should I do when a cheater joins? He will most likely have the highest kills and mining, which means I won't be allowed to kick him.

On both of the proposed cases you're just gonna have to altf4 out of there, no other way out.

[Dr. Rockso M.D.]

Originally posted by {Mechanic} - Vasya:

Don't like toxic hosts? just host yourself, play solo, or find a group. None of the ideas that ever get suggested are gonna work, because it'll just fuel the trolls to some extent, or it will cause people to start complaining even more for one reason or another. Current system works fine enough, you can't mitigate the trolls completely, they'll always exist.
Host's game host's rules, if he says you should get kicked for no reason, he'll do it and not feel bad about himself since it's his lobby ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was about to address possible retorts to the issue, but figured there is more intelligent discussion to be had. Not saying 'you're that guy' and there 'had to be someone to say it', but if you read the post carefully, you might understand how simple the issue is to correct - and that it is indeed possible to improve. We're not here to purify the world of trolls, we're here to be practical.

It's always easier to say "its never going to work" and "don't bother" and "if you don't like something than don't play it". This is lazy at best and clearly offers nothing to any possible improvment(s). I don't want to be rude, but I can tell you don't come from a particularly creative or thoughtful background.

The core of this game revolves around multiplayer and I realize and appreciate the developer's design choices to emphasize this and make it work. However, it requires a little bit of improvement, if they want to enhance player's experience.

I encourage comments and thoughts from those who are actually interested in seeing this game improve.

Originally posted by Lokimut:

But what should I do when a cheater joins? He will most likely have the highest kills and mining, which means I won't be allowed to kick him.
I would then have to abort the entire mission and kick him in the lobby. But he can just leave during the loading screen and I won't be able to ban him from the following mission.

Fair point - with 120+ hours in and hundreds of games in this game, I've yet to see a SINGLE cheater. Legitimate point, but it seems like you're killing the group to save an individual.

[Twinkletoes]

A poorly though out suggestion which does too much and offers too little in return.

A system of "checks and balances" would not work due to cheats or hell, even OP builds meant to score kills. Then griefers has more or less free reign.

Not being able to kick when ever means griefers and trolls only need to behave for the first few minutes, then they have free reign to do as they please.

The devs DO care about improving the game. This system is not the game.

A vote kick I suppose would be fine.

[Chibbity]

If you're getting kicked that much, it's you.

“If you run into an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the morning, you ran into an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If you run into ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all day, you're the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.”

People don't host games just to troll others and kick them. You keep using the term "bad faith" yet you don't see how it applies to your complaint and suggestion?

Seriously, is this thread just low grade bait lol?

[Mage Hand, Wizard Brand]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

If you're getting kicked that much, it's you.

“If you run into an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the morning, you ran into an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If you run into ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all day, you're the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.”

People don't host games just to troll others and kick them. You keep using the term "bad faith" yet you don't see how it applies to your complaint and suggestion?

Seriously, is this thread just low grade bait lol?

With how he responded to me it's obvious bait post

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by {Mechanic} - Vasya:

With how he responded to me it's obvious bait post

Yeah, all his responses are full of very back handed insults.

[Mage Hand, Wizard Brand]

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Originally posted by {Mechanic} - Vasya:

With how he responded to me it's obvious bait post

Yeah, all his responses are full of very back handed insults.

If he acts like that in the game, it would explain all the kicks tbh.

[kestrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vpYYp2Fcos

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by kestrel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vpYYp2Fcos

Yes, we are doing this again.


See you next week.

[Dr. Rockso M.D.]

Originally posted by {Mechanic} - Vasya:

With how he responded to me it's obvious bait post

Sorry you took that personally. I'm just frank with people, and honestly, your post offered little other than the obligatory 'it won't work'.

Originally posted by Chibbity:

If you're getting kicked that much, it's you.

“If you run into an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the morning, you ran into an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If you run into ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all day, you're the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.”

People don't host games just to troll others and kick them. You keep using the term "bad faith" yet you don't see how it applies to your complaint and suggestion?

Seriously, is this thread just low grade bait lol?

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Yeah, all his responses are full of very back handed insults.

Very possible, had there been any negative text/voice interaction, which there was not - not from my end. It's usually limited to "here" "check this out" "on my way" "coming to pick you up" via chat.

I get your point, it's quite possible the issue is with me, however, I've enough maturity and intelligence to evaluate myself and realize that the issue is just with these random individuals - individuals with colorful names that I can't re-state here, due to profanity masks and racism rules.

(I've usually hear this exact point and accusation - the 'maybe its you' - come from people who suffer from a lack of social awareness and aptitude - not at myself personally, but by those who lack social tact at others who are clearly not the problem.)

As I already mentioned, I don't even use this feature myself (not that I'm saying no one else should be able to, because I don't) as I've not seen a reason to and it's just poor character to abuse guests - yes, guests. Even with 'serial joiners', it's much too late to realize they're not contributing until after the fact.

If you put in some serious thought and effort, your post might actually be helpful. I'm not sure you understand the use of bad faith and it's ironic how you post and presume this more or less thoughtful post is just bait/trolling - it does tell us little about yourself, however.

Yes, this is a legitimate post, not bait, troll or flame. I'd like to hear other, legitimate, thoughts about this. I'll hopefully be responding to those who have something to offer, now this has been cleared up.

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

I get your point, it's quite possible the issue is with me, however, I've enough maturity and intelligence to evaluate myself and realize that the issue is just with these random individuals - individuals with colorful names that I can't re-state here, due to profanity masks and racism rules.

Bad luck then?

DRG is considered to have a solid community of helpful and amiable players.

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

(I've usually hear this exact point and accusation - the 'maybe its you' - come from people who suffer from a lack of social awareness and aptitude - not at myself personally, but by those who lack social tact at others who are clearly not the problem.)

No, it doesn't.

Its the "have you tried to unplug and plug it back in" of multiplayer. One of the most overlooked but basic solutions.

Social awareness and aptitude has nothing to do with it. You said you have not ONCE seen the kick function used properly?

Why? How? What are YOU doing?

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

If you put in some serious thought and effort, your post might actually be helpful. I'm not sure you understand the use of bad faith and it's ironic how you post and presume this more or less thoughtful post is just bait/trolling - it does tell us little about yourself, however.

Careful. This part undermines.

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

I get your point, it's quite possible the issue is with me, however, I've enough maturity and intelligence to evaluate myself and realize that the issue is just with these random individuals

Clear writing does not equate to clear thinking.

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

Yes, this is a legitimate post, not bait, troll or flame. I'd like to hear other, legitimate, thoughts about this. I'll hopefully be responding to those who have something to offer, now this has been cleared up.

What are you expecting to be offered? Especially with what seems to be an "exception, not the rule" situation?

[Fryskar]

I can barly see a single instance where this would impove the game.
But many where it would become worse.

[StaunchStache]

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso M.D.:

Originally posted by Lokimut:

But what should I do when a cheater joins? He will most likely have the highest kills and mining, which means I won't be allowed to kick him.
I would then have to abort the entire mission and kick him in the lobby. But he can just leave during the loading screen and I won't be able to ban him from the following mission.

Fair point - with 120+ hours in and hundreds of games in this game, I've yet to see a SINGLE cheater. Legitimate point, but it seems like you're killing the group to save an individual.

This alone tells me you lack the self-awareness needed to propose such tremendous changes to the kicking system.

Because YOU haven't seen a cheater in X hours of play, there is no problem with implementing a system that makes them impossible to kick?

I have only ever been griefed once in over 400 hours, surely that means your experience and proposal can be safely discarded.

If getting kicked happens to you often, it might be time for some self-reflection. Or to move away from whatever region or difficulty level that has you encounter so many griefers. Or simply host your own games. You know, no need to kill the group (DRG players that would like to be able to kick cheaters and trolls) to save an individual (that's you).