Thunderhead: AoE vs direct damage

[vindicar]

I've seen recommendations to mod Thunderhead to maximize splash damage instead of direct damage, however I'm rather disappointed with the results.

I've tried 3-3-2-2-2 with Carpet Bomber, and while it does make mincemeat out of swarms, it somewhat lacks DPS against single targets you want down ASAP, whereas a direct damage build like 1-3-3-1-2 with composite drums seems to do a decent job with either.

Did I get the build wrong?

[phittte]

I use the carpet bomber build (3-2-2-2-2) and I have the bulldog against larger targets. If you want a more balanced build you can of course use a clean overclock like composite drums and a bit more direct damage, but it's far worse against swarms of smaller enemies. If you want a full direct damage build you can even use Big Bertha and go for accuracy and direct damage.

How good carpet bomber is also depends on the difficulty and the amount of players as well. You will hit a lot more enemies with aoe in a 4 player hazard 5 swarm than in hazard 3 solo.

[DeMasked]

Carpet Bomber is really good on high Hazard levels to quickly winnow out the crowd of weaker enemies while using grenades or secondary weapons for taking out armored / high health targets.

Another fun combo is Big Bertha going for damage, accuracy and armor piercing combined with Bulldog's Magic Bullets AoE + Poison so you aim near an enemy for the aoe splash damage and possible poison and then it can then reflect to hit another spot for more aoe / poison.

[Steelfist]

I've gone with the carpet bomber build except with splintering shells instead and I've found it to be the superior option now. Still melts swarms just as efficiently as CB, but it also does better versus large targets. Mactera in particular are less of a threat with this build.

[MrPurple33]

Without the Carpet Bomber, I always saw two options with the AC - a more Direct Damage shell which still has a shrapnel radius, or an AOE which does a more spread/shrapnel/shotgun effect- I've always preferred a tighter DD shell- more accurate, can close fire cover teammates without accidentally fragging them

While I now have Carpet Bomber, and do enjoy it, I have noticed a Lack of "Punch" when Grunt Swarms get close up- I'm taking hits to my Shield before they get fragged, where before I would more easily blow them off me- I take a bit more hits than I used to close up, but mid range I clearly see more carnage- also, even though my pre-Carpet Bomb AC was excellent against bigger enemies, the Carpet Bomb "Spread" from the explosions definitly shreds Praetorians better, and is QUITE Noticable vs Dreads, Oppressors and Bulks- It just spreads the explosives and hits more surface area- better against the biggies, especially that harder to hit Oppressor rear- you can shrapnel it from the sides with Carpet Bomber

I have been tempted to flip the Carpet Bomber on and off per mission, but right now the advantages outweigh the one disadvantage (though I miss just point blank blasting Bugs off of me) - I am Looking forward to getting the Big Bertha OC- should more match my AC Style, and will probably switch back between the two

Right now I feel I have 3 choices --

1) my original "Tight Shell" more Direct Damage Load- still Armor Breaks and Fears, always been effective
2) Carpet Bomber slapped onto my build (my current equip) - DD down from 21 to 15, but AOE increased and spread damage from 9 to 12 - It's a good, solid Loadout - from 21/9 to 15/12
3) Could go even more AOE and tweak it that way with the Carpet Bomber- won't do that myself, would severely weaken the close up damage, but could see how some might Like that and use either pistol, probably the Bulldog, to do the close up shots

So I'm good for now with option 2) - but will probably toggle an A and B scenario If I get Big Bertha

[Dozey]

Once you hit H4/5, you get much more benefit from an AoE build.

[koan]

If you want direct damage, use the minigun. You should not use thunderhead for direct damage. It's not designed for it. The minigun is.

[St0rmFury]

Originally posted by PsychicSploob:

If you want direct damage, use the minigun. You should not use thunderhead for direct damage. It's not designed for it. The minigun is.

What he said.

[vindicar]

Originally posted by PsychicSploob:

If you want direct damage, use the minigun. You should not use thunderhead for direct damage. It's not designed for it. The minigun is.

Thunderhead has the big advantage of actually working fear mod. Minigun has only two and a half advantages over TH: it's more accurate, allowing you to attack at longer distances, you can burn your targets, and it has no clips. So I'd say it's useful on Mactera Plague maps, where you can easily run out of revolver rounds. Everything else, DD Thunderhead can handle just as or more effectively due to having some splash.

Originally posted by Dozey:

Once you hit H4/5, you get much more benefit from an AoE build.

Is it because of increased swarm size?

[vindicar]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

The autocannon doesn't have clips either.

Now that's clearly not true, unless you're being nitpicky for the sake of it. It has drums of 110 ammo each that you has to reload.

[vindicar]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

Yes. It has drums. Drums with belts of ammo. Not clips.

Thank you for your helpful and meaningful contribution to this thread. Now please proceed to demonstrate your sharp wit somewhere else.

[Pharto]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

Originally posted by vindicar:

Thank you for your helpful and meaningful contribution to this thread. Now please proceed to demonstrate your sharp wit somewhere else.

Ouch, if calling things by their correct name is "sharp wit" to you, you're gonna have trouble in life. Watch out for mugging station-wagons. I mean propelling bovines. I mean crossing the road. Don't be bitter about the chance to learn and grow, that's silly.

Damn, it really must be a cold day in hell to see some mlp avi actually trying to call their incessant nagging a chance to "learn and grow". INB4 they say something rude back that makes them sound even more like an incel. Fantastic bait btw.

I'm going to risk saying something on topic now and tell you that the autocannon really doesn't have any bad builds except for neurotoxin shells. It really depends on weather you want to focus on horde clear or on single target. The only upgrade that I think is a must take on both is the ammo upgrade on t1. From there, if you want to do single target you want big bertha or composite drums, and run the accuracy upgrade t2, t3 run damage or rof depending on if you care about ammo efficiency or a more responsive gun, t4 your only good choice is armor busting, t5 you can really pick anything, I run feedback loop for more damage. For horde clear run carpet bomber or splintering shells, t2 i might say rof for more explosions, t3 take increased splash, t4 take increased aoe, t5 is still up to preference, i might lean towards suppressive fire though.

At this point when you run either build is down to to the composition of your team and what you think is more fun. I find that both are viable at this point, so there isn't really a wrong answer.
I hope I could help!

[Vandal Savant]

Big Bertha is the girlfriend that has a bit of a temper and takes some getting used to, but she's worth it.

[vindicar]

Originally posted by Vandal Savant:

Big Bertha is the girlfriend that has a bit of a temper and takes some getting used to, but she's worth it.

Haven't got that OC yet, sadly.
I'm also interested in Neurotoxin Payload - it works fairly well on the Bulldog, and being able to carpet the bugs in it would be cool. It does reduce raw damage, but could give you more time and easier crowd control... gotta try it out when I get that.

Originally posted by Pharto:

I'm going to risk saying something on topic now and tell you that the autocannon really doesn't have any bad builds except for neurotoxin shells. It really depends on weather you want to focus on horde clear or on single target. The only upgrade that I think is a must take on both is the ammo upgrade on t1. From there, if you want to do single target you want big bertha or composite drums, and run the accuracy upgrade t2, t3 run damage or rof depending on if you care about ammo efficiency or a more responsive gun, t4 your only good choice is armor busting, t5 you can really pick anything, I run feedback loop for more damage. For horde clear run carpet bomber or splintering shells, t2 i might say rof for more explosions, t3 take increased splash, t4 take increased aoe, t5 is still up to preference, i might lean towards suppressive fire though.

At this point when you run either build is down to to the composition of your team and what you think is more fun. I find that both are viable at this point, so there isn't really a wrong answer.
I hope I could help!

Thanks for the info!
I'm unsure about T2 accuracy upgrade - as far as I can tell, it doesn't boost your accuracy enough to choose it over the faster spin-up upgrade. That's also the reason I tend to not pick feedback loop - it's not often that I get to point the gun in one direction and just hold down the trigger to really benefit from the bonus on max rate of fire. Though perhaps faster spin-up can mitigate that... worth a try.