The reason Steeve needs a nerf

[Bongwater Pizza]

There seems to be a lot of controversy in regards to the beast master perk. I'm honestly baffled that anyone can say this perk is well balanced.

There is one simple reason this perk stands out from all the other active perks.

EVERY other active perk, when activated, ends WAY before you can activate it again. Beast master not aligning with the already established balance of every other active perk, is what is causing it to be OP.

Imagine if shield link had a 30 second cooldown, but buffed your teammates shields for 45 seconds, until they take a lot of damage. Should dash give us a speed boost for 35 seconds with a 25 second cooldown, but we lose the speedboost if we stop moving? How about berkerker? It should have a 4 minute duration until you run out of enemies to kill, with a 3 minute cooldown.

This is the problem with beast master.

If we're going to have a cooldown of 5 minutes on beastmaster, with no limit on uses, then beast master should automatically kill your Steeve after 2.5 minutes.

None of the other active perks allow you to constantly, consistently have them activated. Beast master needs to be the same.

Edit: Basically if an active perk is going to be able to be active 100% of the time, then whey the hell is it even an active perk? Active perks should be something you activate in a pinch to help out with a specific situation. They need to be something that you're going to want to save until you need it. With the current iteration of beast master, you're punished for not using it as soon as possible. It SHOULD be that if you use it at the wrong time, you wasted Steeve. There should be an incentive to not immediately tame the first guard you see.

[Soren]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

Originally posted by Bongwater Pizza:

I'm worried they don't actually understand the issue. Based on dev responses, it sounds like they just plan to make Steeve squishier.

The issue is beastmaster doesn't play like every other active perk. Every active perk should have the possibility to make the user think "Darn, I wish I had saved that another 15 seconds". As of now it's more like "Darn, I wish I had used this 2 minutes earlier on the first guard I saw".

Steeve should have an aneurysm after 2-3 minutes. If none of the other perks can be extended to last longer than their cooldown, BM shouldn't be able to either.

You've never felt the loss of Steeve dying within ten seconds to 'sploders, I take it? They chew right through his health and he doesn't move away before they go off. They're already a natural counter to this perk.

Yeah, pretty sure the explosive guts and the exploders swarm map modifiers just make the perk garbage tier during those specific mission. Even guard units go bye-bye in a fraction of the cooldown.

[Paranoia]

haz 5 even guard steve doesnt really last past 3 minutes.
reducing the time steve can be up isnt the way to go.

[Kairion]

I don't like Steves introduction in the game in the first place. It is immersion breaking to have glyphids fighting alongsides the dwarves for me.

But simmilar to other Games with Pets there is a problem to be had with them. If they are too tanky, you just summon them and can potentially forget they exist. If he is too flimsy, you are constantly frustrated that you have to re summon them.

So both extremes are in my oppinion unfun. If it would scale with difficaulty level it swings into one of these extremes on either the lowest or highest difficaulties.

With a expiration time, you could get away with a stronger Steve, since it will die even if it is to strong. However, in that case its almost always warrents using when a swarm approaches. And in my oppinion its not fun to sit on a timer regardless of how and your Pet protect eachother.

Therefore i'd like to propose two different approaches to Steve:
The first one would be to limit the team to one steve per game. This way the perk can get away being a bit stronger than the other perks, as you can't use its power too much. With the downside o it being likely demanded in certain groups. And causing some discontent if ending up in a group with 4 players wich want a pet.

The other one would be to increase the friendly fire damage steve takes significantly.
Think about it, just because i put a leash on a Dog, he's not suddently becoming bulletproof.
Skilful players have a longer uptime while careless shooters end up without a pet for longer periods of time.

Also, Friendly is also an available perk. If you happen to shoot Steve a bit too often, you can also pick up this perk.

Please note: I would only do one of these changes, not both, as this would nerf it much more than necessary.

[vindicar]

Originally posted by Kairion:

The first one would be to limit the team to one steve per game. This way the perk can get away being a bit stronger than the other perks, as you can't use its power too much. With the downside o it being likely demanded in certain groups. And causing some discontent if ending up in a group with 4 players wich want a pet.

Alternatively, make the one Steve stronger for each player in a party with that perk equipped.

Or just throw it out entirely and let the group bring Bosco instead.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by vindicar:

Originally posted by Kairion:

The first one would be to limit the team to one steve per game. This way the perk can get away being a bit stronger than the other perks, as you can't use its power too much. With the downside o it being likely demanded in certain groups. And causing some discontent if ending up in a group with 4 players wich want a pet.

Alternatively, make the one Steve stronger for each player in a party with that perk equipped.

Or just throw it out entirely and let the group bring Bosco instead.

One active per team is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea, but that workaround could maybe work.

[LotusBlade]

Originally posted by derpykat5:

We care because steeve has a habit of being between us and the bugs we want to kill, or being behind us and making enemy sounds, which makes most people turn around and waste time looking for an enemy that doesn't exist.

I am talking about NOT nerfing Steeve. Please learn to read.

[Bongwater Pizza]

Originally posted by LotusBlade:

I am talking about NOT nerfing Steeve. Please learn to read.

Maybe YOU should learn to read. Derpy is saying he dislikes Steeve, and would like to see it changed.

He was explaining why he cares. This isn't something that doesn't effect others. If one person picks beast master, it affects everyone.

Also your first post completely ignores most of what I said in the OP. I even used the 45 second cooldown perk as an example. Way to insult someones reading comprehension while using none yourself. You don't think co-op games need balance. You don't give a damn about good balance. Why are you even here?

Originally posted by derpykat5:

You could make steeve take a % of his max health every second. That way it will die in a fixed amount of time, or faster if he is being attacked. Would work more like the happiest mask ghosts in Risk of Rain 2.

This is a great suggestion. A 5 minute lifespan would be 1% loss every 3 seconds, which seems fair.

Originally posted by Fryskar:

The main difference between BM and the others is its the only one with a timewise open end.
So like if shieldlink was active until you took 100dmg or berserker until you used 5 power attacks.

This is a much better analogy than what I used.

[Gorgonite]

Remove Steeve and turn him into a drink at the bar, which gives you +10% starting ammo, as repayment for all the bullets we've wasted on him when shooting into the horde.

[Gorgonite]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

Originally posted by Retrova:

Remove Steeve and turn him into a drink at the bar

We already have Glyphid Slammers though

Well this one is the Steeve Slammer. Extra potent with controversy.

[Internet ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Hero]

Good Boi is trying his best, stop this.

[Azaela]

Originally posted by Internet ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Hero:

Good Boi is trying his best, stop this.

Steeve deserves Bulk Det hell. Eternal exploding never to be seen again. I wish they'd scrap this perk already.

[Soren]

Originally posted by Nagatoeme:

Originally posted by Internet ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Hero:

Good Boi is trying his best, stop this.

Steeve deserves Bulk Det hell. Eternal exploding never to be seen again. I wish they'd scrap this perk already.

You lose not only the work put into making the perk by scraping it. You also have to make a solution to give back the perk points too players who spent points on it when you delete it. Lots of people also use the perk, so backlash can ensue even if players get back their stuff like it never happened.

So reworking or nerfing the perk is probably the best option here.

[Madder Red]

Since the release ther perk has gone downhill & not in a good way. The constant whining on these forums are so damn tiresome & i honestly would prefer if they scrape the perk altogether instead of nerfing it into uselesness.

GSG has shown time & time again that they tend to go overboard with their "idea" of balance.
We are still playing a PVE game & nothing so far has been broken or exploitable in a state which makes haz 5 a laughing stock.

But the pvp balance mentality is strong in todays players.
Something is strong? Nerf it.
People with 400 hr + trying to dictate the state of the game when the majority doesn't even visit the forums.

Also nobody is forcing anyone to use steeve.
Or play with randoms.

[Keksut]

Originally posted by derpykat5:

You could make steeve take a % of his max health every second. That way it will die in a fixed amount of time, or faster if he is being attacked. Would work more like the happiest mask ghosts in Risk of Rain 2.

that sounds alot like nekros's shadow clones in warframe. They constantly take damage based on the warframes power duration i think. That'd work for steeve or maybe not. If they did do that itd save me alot of ammo from panic firing at steeve on sight

[Keksut]

Originally posted by Madder Red:

Since the release ther perk has gone downhill & not in a good way. The constant whining on these forums are so damn tiresome & i honestly would prefer if they scrape the perk altogether instead of nerfing it into uselesness.

GSG has shown time & time again that they tend to go overboard with their "idea" of balance.
We are still playing a PVE game & nothing so far has been broken or exploitable in a state which makes haz 5 a laughing stock.

But the pvp balance mentality is strong in todays players.
Something is strong? Nerf it.
People with 400 hr + trying to dictate the state of the game when the majority doesn't even visit the forums.

Also nobody is forcing anyone to use steeve.
Or play with randoms.

i know right? What is with this mentality?