Please fix the gun aim/alignment on Rift's Touch controllers

[iNCEPTIONAL]

PLEEEASE fix and/or allow players to re-align the in-game gun aim/position to the correct angle for the Oculus Touch controllers on Rift.

You have it absolutely perfect in the menus, where the alignment of the Touch controller's virtual pointer is perfectly correct for how I am holding the controller and where I am pointing it (ironically, as though I were holding a [shot]gun), and this is also where/how the in-game gun(s) should point too as it's in the perfect alignment for any virtual gun's barrel, yet for some inexplicable reason, you change the angle of the gun and ray/raycast (or whatever you are using for aiming the weapons) when in-game.

It boggles my mind how quite a few developers have done this now, where they get the aiming alignment perfect for the Touch controllers in the menus (when you're holding and aiming/pointing the Touch controller as though it were a [shot]gun) but then decide to do it totally different in-game (when you're actually supposed to aiming/pointing a [virtual] gun).

I've tried to describe the problem with the misaligned aiming with a simple image in the past, with Crisis VRigade, and I'll try again here too:

https://ibb.co/pQR4yq6

Edit: Here's another image: https://ibb.co/jvHSF9Q

And another: https://ibb.co/rHtKGsM

I don't know if I can explain this any better but, seriously, please contact me if you want me to go through it in more detail.

So PLEEEASE fix this issue--and it really is in issue, even if 99% of gamers don't ever question the fact that the aim on their guns isn't quite right with how they would naturally hold the Touch controller and aim--because you've created a masterpiece here, but this one thing is really starting to ruin the game for me, especially when trying to shoot in the heat of battle and I miss, not because I didn't aim correctly but rather because your guns are misaligned and I wasn't compensating for that error in the heat of the battle.

Failure in a game should never come as the result of something the designer(s) have done wrong; that is one of the biggest failures a game designer can make--and it's happening here. :-(

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Has no one else noticed this ^^^?

[Xjph]

I disagree.

The pointer in menus emulates pointing a finger, not aiming a gun. It's natural for hand position between the two to differ. I'd much prefer that the position of the grips line up so that the physical presence and shape of the gun is better represented.

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Originally posted by Xjph:

I disagree.

The pointer in menus emulates pointing a finger, not aiming a gun. It's natural for hand position between the two to differ. I'd much prefer that the position of the grips line up so that the physical presence and shape of the gun is better represented.

That's what you THINK is true, but you are actually wrong. You've just not taken enough time to investigate the setup properly to know any better. But I have.

In the menus the pointer is perfectly in line with where a [shot]gun barrel would be relative to the grip when you hold the controller naturally if it were in fact a [shot]gun (and I say shotgun because that's the angle the controller's grip is at, or would be on a real shotgun, rather than the angle the grip would be at on a pistol).

So, by trying to align all the in-game gun's grips with the Touch controller's grip as though it were in the same alignment as a pistol is completely and utterly wrong. They have to align all the in-game gun's grips as though they Touch controller's grips is in the same alignment as a shotgun, which it is, and that means the grips actually shouldn't match position at all (except if the in-game gun happens to be a typical/traditional old-school shotgun), but the barrels should point forward when you hold the controller in the natural and comfortable position. That's the most important thing here: Lining up the in-game gun's barrel and trigger correctly relative to how you hold and point/aim the Touch controller in the real world naturally and comfortably. Matching the grips is not the correct solution (again, unless the in-game gun actually happens to be an old-school shotgun).

This means, when you hold the gun in the game, your Touch controller should still be held in the exact position I showed in those images, and that's is simply not what many of these developers are doing. They are instead making you tilt the controller up more than natural and indeed comfortable to try and match the angle as though it were the same as a pistol's grip, which it simply is not.

Again, the pointer in the menus gets the position you hold and point the Touch controller perfect, and the in-game guns should be positioned to allow you to maintain that real-world position for both natural and comfortable and indeed realistic aiming.

It's not Oculus fault that it made the grip position like a shotgun, as it's very comfortable like that, but it is the developer's faults who don't realize this and incorrectly think of it like you're holding a normal pistol, which has a totally different grip angle and forward alignment to the Touch controller.

[MLG DEWKING]

+1 I kinda agree. I didn't find it that bad but I always felt it was a little bit off, but not too bad. But really all we need is a slider to change the angle of the gun to adjust it like you want, like they added in saints & sinners. Also you should submit a support ticket to report this "bug" I think they listen more there than here

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Originally posted by MLG DEWKING:

+1 I kinda agree. I didn't find it that bad but I always felt it was a little bit off, but not too bad. But really all we need is a slider to change the angle of the gun to adjust it like you want, like they added in saints & sinners. Also you should submit a support ticket to report this "bug" I think they listen more there than here

Where do I go to submit a bug?

[Xjph]

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

So, by trying to align all the in-game gun's grips as though the Touch controller's grip is in the same alignment as a pistol is completely and utterly wrong. They have to align the in-game gun's grips as though they Touch controller's grips is in the same alignment as a shotgun, which it is.

Why on earth would I want the grip angle of the gun to align with a gun that's different than the one I'm using in game? Shotguns and pistols have different grip angles, there's no one correct angle for every gun.

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Originally posted by Xjph:

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

So, by trying to align all the in-game gun's grips as though the Touch controller's grip is in the same alignment as a pistol is completely and utterly wrong. They have to align the in-game gun's grips as though they Touch controller's grips is in the same alignment as a shotgun, which it is.

Why on earth would I want the grip angle of the gun to align with a gun that's different than the one I'm using in game? Shotguns and pistols have different grip angles, there's no one correct angle for every gun.

See, you still don't get it:

What these designers need to do above all is to have the player hold the real Touch controller in the correct and natural and comfortable position it was designed for when aiming/pointing/shooting forward perfectly, which is like you're holding a shotgun (which is how it is in the menus), and then you make the barrels of the guns in-game point in the correct position relative to that--even if the in-game and real world don't actually match each other by precisely where the grips on each are.

Again, whatever gun you are holding in-game, you should ALWAYS be holding the Touch controller like it's a shotgun, because that is LITERALLY the position the grip on it is in.

Imagine if someone gave you a shotgun in real life and told you that you have to tilt it 30 degrees up just to fire straight....

It would be both totally un-intuitive and uncomfortable on your wrists.

Well, that's what's happening with these shooters that get it slightly wrong (although not quite as obviously to most of you because most of you never check your real hands when playing to see what's happening or even question why the aiming seems just that tiny be less intuitive than it should). But it is wrong, and I think it needs to be addressed for the sake of all great VR fps games going forward.

[Xjph]

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

Again, whatever gun you are holding in-game, you should ALWAYS be holding the Touch controller like it's a shotgun, because that is LITERALLY the position the grip on it is in.

Why does it matter where the real-life controller is pointed? I'm not shooting with the controller. The controller has no physical in game representation, and anything that reminds me I'm holding a controller and not a gun detracts from the game's immersion.

Expecting the same grip angle regardless of whether you're using a Remington 870 or Mauser C96 is absurd.

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Originally posted by Xjph:

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

Again, whatever gun you are holding in-game, you should ALWAYS be holding the Touch controller like it's a shotgun, because that is LITERALLY the position the grip on it is in.

Why does it matter where the real-life controller is pointed? I'm not shooting with the controller. The controller has no physical in game representation, and anything that reminds me I'm holding a controller and not a gun detracts from the game's immersion.

Expecting the same grip angle regardless of whether you're using a Remington 870 or Mauser C96 is absurd.

See, this is the issue: Most people want to argue the point but don't even really know or understand the issue.

The physical Touch controller has a physical real world design that is supposed to be held and gripped and pointed in a particular way so as not to cause discomfort, to feel natural, and to actually let you point at something accurately and intuitively without having to constantly think about and double check you're tilting it in just the right position, which in this case is like it were a shotgun. In the image below you can see that just like the Touch controller, a shotgun has a grip with a much lesser angle than on a regular pistol:

https://gunfire.com/eng_pl_MAD-MAX-Sawn-Off-Replica-1152214904_1.jpg

As soon as someone creates an in-game gun (other than a traditional shotgun) that ignores the Touch's default and natural and correct hold position, by incorrectly trying to match the grip angle between the two rather than the barrel and trigger angles, then it literally creates a conflict with all of that, so aiming is always ever so slightly off when you do it without that extra bit of pausing to double check where you are pointing the in-game model is correctly aligned (or use an in-game laser sight to basically make up for the error), even though you were originally pointing perfectly correctly when you intuitively flicked the Touch controller up into where you thought it should be based on how you are holding it and where the grip and barrel and trigger are on it, etc.

Put simply, you can't naturally and comfortably, and indeed correctly, aim these incorrectly positioned in-game guns properly unless you compensate by tiling the Touch controller to a slightly unnatural and uncomfortable hold position that it wasn't designed to be in--and that's not good and is just bad design.

Best solution, rotate the angle slightly when on Rift using Touch, or let the players do so via an in-game option. And those who don't know any better or just don't care can leave it as is if they choose.

[Xjph]

That was a lot of text that ignored the point of the controllers physical direction not being relevant in VR.

Your repeated insistence that I don't understand the issue is also getting tiring. I understand that the natural controller pointing grip angle differs from the grip angle of some weapons. They should.

or let the players' do so.

I'm fine with this. Argue that it should be made configurable, sure. Options are always nice to have. Don't present your opinion as if it's the only correct choice.

[SKULLBUTT]

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

Originally posted by MLG DEWKING:

+1 I kinda agree. I didn't find it that bad but I always felt it was a little bit off, but not too bad. But really all we need is a slider to change the angle of the gun to adjust it like you want, like they added in saints & sinners. Also you should submit a support ticket to report this "bug" I think they listen more there than here

Where do I go to submit a bug?

Go to your library, click on Alyx and then click on support. It's in the bar with the store page and community hub.

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Originally posted by Xjph:

That was a lot of text that ignored the point of the controllers physical direction not being relevant in VR.

Your repeated insistence that I don't understand the issue is also getting tiring. I understand that the natural controller pointing grip angle differs from the grip angle of some weapons. They should.

or let the players' do so.

I'm fine with this. Argue that it should be made configurable, sure. Options are always nice to have. Don't present your opinion as if it's the only correct choice.

You are, again, missing the point. The offer of a choice is because that's the best all round solution so everyone is satiated (and to basically put an end to stubborn people like you debating the point since everyone can do what they want). But the angle is wrong, objectively and demonstrably so. If the gun were pointing backwards when you were pointing the controller forwards it would be so obvious an error and issue that you wouldn't be arguing the point, but because it's a bit less subtle than that you want to argue with me about it, even though you clearly don't truly get why it's an objective issue and design error. It is wrong, and it needs to be fixed. But, as a "compromise", I'm saying at least include the option to adjust it for people like me, who actually care about stuff being done properly, to set it as such.

[iNCEPTIONAL]

Originally posted by bluergh:

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

Where do I go to submit a bug?

Go to your library, click on Alyx and then click on support. It's in the bar with the store page and community hub.

Great. Thanks. :D

[DedSecV]

Jesus christ, what a ride. I don't even understand what you mean by "holding it like shotgun"

If the physical grip aligns to the virtual weapongrip it is perfect. I can feel and see the grip in the correct position. My bodys sensomotorics therefore functions perfectly.

When I see my digital hands in the menu and they align with my real hands in to most degree, same thing, it works perfect.

Both works in alyx, case closed. wtf

(but havin options to adjust is fine, fair point there)

EDIT: I have the Rift S, idk what you use

[Xjph]

Originally posted by iNCEPTIONAL:

You are, again, missing the point. The offer of a choice is because that's the best all round solution so everyone is satiated (and to basically put an end to stubborn people like you debating the point since everyone can do what they want). But the angle is wrong, objectively and demonstrably so. If the gun were pointing backwards it would be so obvious an error and issue that you wouldn't be arguing the point, but because it's a bit less subtle than that you want to argue with me about it, even though you clearly don't truly get why it's an objective issue and design error. It is wrong, and it needs to be fixed. But, as a "compromise", I'm saying at least include the option to adjust it for people like me, who actually care about stuff being done properly, to set it as such.

If the gun's normal grip angle was backward then sure, that'd be fine. I certainly wouldn't expect this gun[www.thefirearmblog.com] to fire in the direction the controller was pointed, which is the ad absurdum conclusion of extending your argument to all cases.

People complaining about grips not aligning in Arizona Sunshine: https://steamcommunity.com/app/342180/discussions/2/1457328927825874221/

User begging developers to use actual gun grip angle: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4fxvg8/developers_please_fix_your_gun_angles_it_affects/

Dev asking for input on grip angle with all responses requesting the angle matches the guns: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/8a7yc7/seeking_opinions_on_oculus_weapon_gripping_angles/

Complaint about FO4 grip angles matching the controller instead of the gun: https://www.reddit.com/r/fo4vr/comments/7kn28n/gun_angle_fix_vive/

Yours is not the only correct opinion.