Unpopular Opinion: I think VR gaming is too slow and thus not meant for FPS games. *A rant*

[ultrashizman]

I've been looking at footage of Alyx and of Doom Eternal and it just reminds me of how fast paced the original Half-life was and Half-life 2. People are getting motion sick from playing Alyx and honestly from what I've seen you barely even move in that game compared to standard FPS games, except for moving your head to look around and yours arms, but your character(Alyx) just moves around the environment so slow, especially in comparison to the original Half-life games and other FPS games. I used to think you move slow in COD games, until I saw VR games. I think that given the limitations of VR, you really can;t have a highly intense suspenseful game because of the limitations of VR. Even John Carmack himself stated that VR isn't really meant for fast paced games and simply can't handle them, or the player themselves can't handle them because they're wind up running into a wall, or getting motion sickness and things like that. This new Half-Life installment seems like a step forward, but also two steps back.

[Chaunsey]

FPS is one of the most popular genre's in VR, FPS specifically benefits more from VR and is a more superior jump in quality in VR than most genre's.

tehy can be as fast or slow as you want them, and need no limitations.

your example is gauss jumping, which BTW is not an intended mechanic of HL, but H3VR has a team fortress 2 mode and you can rocket jump in it.

and both HL1 and 2 are working in VR so even your example is wrong.

everything from doom, quake, serious sam and duke nukem have VR versions, FPS in VR is so good, that there is a huge modding community making many of the popular FPS genres work in VR. or there are devs making similar VR games to existing FPS games.

as a huge life long FPS fan, ive found it hard to go back to flatscreen FPS games.

[Pan_de]

Brainslug eredeti hozzászólása:

I usually play Pavlov ... which is pretty fast pace. I enjoyed the slower pace of Alyx. Clearly they also did that to bring in as many new players as possible (without them throwing up all the time)...

Pavlov isnt fast paced. If you try VR mods of HL2 you will know what fast paced means.

[Pan_de]

Chaunsey eredeti hozzászólása:

FPS is one of the most popular genre's in VR, FPS specifically benefits more from VR and is a more superior jump in quality in VR than most genre's.

tehy can be as fast or slow as you want them, and need no limitations.

your example is gauss jumping, which BTW is not an intended mechanic of HL, but H3VR has a team fortress 2 mode and you can rocket jump in it.

and both HL1 and 2 are working in VR so even your example is wrong.

everything from doom, quake, serious sam and duke nukem have VR versions, FPS in VR is so good, that there is a huge modding community making many of the popular FPS genres work in VR. or there are devs making similar VR games to existing FPS games.

as a huge life long FPS fan, ive found it hard to go back to flatscreen FPS games.

No he isnt wrong in his first opinion, I agree with him that a good VR game is more about immersion rather than full on action. The game character needs to move at a pace which feels realistic to the normal world.

BUt ofc he is wrong that VR games cannot be action packed.

If you play games like hl2 in Vr you will always feel like the main character is on rollerskates if he had sprint it would feel like rollerskates with rocket engines.

Of course you can make a game like that, but to me this doesnt feel like what VR should be.

[Pan_de]

Just saying that you are right VR games are and should be slower. but that´s just to add to the immersion, because most PC game characters are way too fast compared to real life movements. However on a flatscreen that feels just about right.

If you play VR however you will automatically think that slower paced combat is still fast enough to feel the thrill of the fight. Ofc on a flatscreen VR looks too slow, but once you are inside the world it feel just about right.

[El Dr. Gusman]

Shiznown eredeti hozzászólása:

I've been looking at footage of Alyx and of Doom Eternal and it just reminds me of how fast paced the original Half-life was and Half-life 2. People are getting motion sick from playing Alyx and honestly from what I've seen you barely even move in that game compared to standard FPS games, except for moving your head to look around and yours arms, but your character(Alyx) just moves around the environment so slow, especially in comparison to the original Half-life games and other FPS games. I used to think you move slow in COD games, until I saw VR games. I think that given the limitations of VR, you really can;t have a highly intense suspenseful game because of the limitations of VR. Even John Carmack himself stated that VR isn't really meant for fast paced games and simply can't handle them, or the player themselves can't handle them because they're wind up running into a wall, or getting motion sickness and things like that. This new Half-Life installment seems like a step forward, but also two steps back.

Yes it's slower, of course, because we're humans! It's not the same to use a mouse and a keyboard to aim, shoot and cover than using your own body to do everything. Once you are in there the game is in some places frantic and hard, the part with the ton of ants is just wild. And the final part... omg... it's indescribable.

[ultrashizman]

Dimitris_GR(2008-2014) eredeti hozzászólása:

Shiznown eredeti hozzászólása:

I've been looking at footage of Alyx and of Doom Eternal and it just reminds me of how fast paced the original Half-life was and Half-life 2. People are getting motion sick from playing Alyx and honestly from what I've seen you barely even move in that game compared to standard FPS games, except for moving your head to look around and yours arms, but your character(Alyx) just moves around the environment so slow, especially in comparison to the original Half-life games and other FPS games. I used to think you move slow in COD games, until I saw VR games. I think that given the limitations of VR, you really can;t have a highly intense suspenseful game because of the limitations of VR. Even John Carmack himself stated that VR isn't really meant for fast paced games and simply can't handle them, or the player themselves can't handle them because they're wind up running into a wall, or getting motion sickness and things like that. This new Half-Life installment seems like a step forward, but also two steps back.

♥♥♥♥ yourself. No one gonna read your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rant. Go find a job make some money and buy a vr like wow people buy anything else like a car around 10k but a vr around 200-300euros is the problem right?

Wow dude, you need to calm down.

[Dimitris97_GR]

Shiznown eredeti hozzászólása:

Dimitris_GR(2008-2014) eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ yourself. No one gonna read your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rant. Go find a job make some money and buy a vr like wow people buy anything else like a car around 10k but a vr around 200-300euros is the problem right?

Wow dude, you need to calm down.

You need to understand that Valve did their descision on making it only vr. Deal with it and stop crying as the 90% non vr users in the forums does atm.... Im sick of seeing people -rep cause they cant afford a vr headset that cost only 200-300 but can afford a brand new car around 10k right?!!

[Aino]

Yeah, nah. You take literally one game and compare it to a completely different game... and obviously you'll have differences. However, one game isn't anything to draw any conclusions from, especially since the concept of fast games working on VR has been already proven.

Serious Sam 3: BFE is a fast game. It also has a VR port of it. It's the exact same bloody game with some VR gimmicks added to it. Dual wielding, alternate movement options (that I personally ignored for the regular movement)

And guess what. It. Works.

Don't judge the entire medium just because of the design decisions made in one particular game. Don't be that guy. No one likes that guy.

Now why is HL:A slow? Immersion, attention to detail, and focus on environment and performance. A game looking this pretty, with huge sprawling areas we are used to in fast games would be incredibly taxing on the system and make it inaccessible to all but the highest end users, so they reduced the area size and focused more on using the environments and setpieces to the fullest.

If this particular game, in its current map designs, was played as fast as, say, Half-Life 2, you'd breeze through the areas in minutes and play the loading game simulator instead. Every decision Valve has made in developing this game had a reason for it.

[Chaunsey]

E-PigPan_de eredeti hozzászólása:

Chaunsey eredeti hozzászólása:

FPS is one of the most popular genre's in VR, FPS specifically benefits more from VR and is a more superior jump in quality in VR than most genre's.

tehy can be as fast or slow as you want them, and need no limitations.

your example is gauss jumping, which BTW is not an intended mechanic of HL, but H3VR has a team fortress 2 mode and you can rocket jump in it.

and both HL1 and 2 are working in VR so even your example is wrong.

everything from doom, quake, serious sam and duke nukem have VR versions, FPS in VR is so good, that there is a huge modding community making many of the popular FPS genres work in VR. or there are devs making similar VR games to existing FPS games.

as a huge life long FPS fan, ive found it hard to go back to flatscreen FPS games.

No he isnt wrong in his first opinion, I agree with him that a good VR game is more about immersion rather than full on action. The game character needs to move at a pace which feels realistic to the normal world.

BUt ofc he is wrong that VR games cannot be action packed.

If you play games like hl2 in Vr you will always feel like the main character is on rollerskates if he had sprint it would feel like rollerskates with rocket engines.

Of course you can make a game like that, but to me this doesnt feel like what VR should be.

i dont disagree, VR feels a lot faster inherently even at a slower speed, and immersion is what is most important.

it is funm to play old FPS games in VR, but they are inferior to FPS games designed from the ground up for VR.

but saying that fast paced doesnt work in VR is just wrong.

in reality traditional FPS games used speed to make up for limitations in the technology, this is why doom was super fast, but as tech progressed, we saw more FPS games that were about stories, environment, immersion, or tactical game play.

when COD came about it was a big step down in speed from a lot of shooters at the time, but a big increase in cinematic experience. when operation flashpoint and rainbow six came out those were a really slow type of FPS where 1 shot meant death and you had to play slow and tactical.

half life alyx represents another technological leap for the FPS genre, it has an order of magnitude more environmental interaction and detail, and so, when watching on a screen it looks super slow, but when playing, it feels really well paced, and in combat actually feels quite hectic.

in VR you can do fast, but there should be a reason for that speed.

sairento has you jumping around, wall running and stuff, echo combat has you fling around in zero gravity really fast. VR makes you have to approach every game mechanic with a much higher level of detail than before.

[AdahnGorion]

It might be in time. But yes as I have said many times, the tech is so limited yet and the quality is not good either. Even this game (being one if not the best VR game) is filled with limitation and akward decisions.

That is normal for tech in its toddler stage however, give it 5-10 years, and due to the focus on it, it might have become quality enough to warrent a new try.
With that said. VR will never be anything else than a game enhancement hardware and thus not a core system item. This means it wont be adaopted or liked by all.

I could buy a new VR headset each month and not be in financial trouble, but.. yes but.. It is simple not worth it in its current state. We could talk about all the hassle and some of the health issues as well.. VR is still plagued by many issues.

But again. It is good Valve put in a new push for advances on the field, even if it was just to gain some plublicity and sell some of their own hardware.

[Pan_de]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

It might be in time. But yes as I have said many times, the tech is so limited yet and the quality is not good either. Even this game (being one if not the best VR game) is filled with limitation and akward decisions.

That is normal for tech in its toddler stage however, give it 5-10 years, and due to the focus on it, it might have become quality enough to warrent a new try.
With that said. VR will never be anything else than a game enhancement hardware and thus not a core system item. This means it wont be adaopted or liked by all.

I could buy a new VR headset each month and not be in financial trouble, but.. yes but.. It is simple not worth it in its current state. We could talk about all the hassle and some of the health issues as well.. VR is still plagued by many issues.

But again. It is good Valve put in a new push for advances on the field, even if it was just to gain some plublicity and sell some of their own hardware.

Limited ok, but quality? If we talk about game quality, HLA is pretty high standard.

[AdahnGorion]

E-PigPan_de eredeti hozzászólása:

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

It might be in time. But yes as I have said many times, the tech is so limited yet and the quality is not good either. Even this game (being one if not the best VR game) is filled with limitation and akward decisions.

That is normal for tech in its toddler stage however, give it 5-10 years, and due to the focus on it, it might have become quality enough to warrent a new try.
With that said. VR will never be anything else than a game enhancement hardware and thus not a core system item. This means it wont be adaopted or liked by all.

I could buy a new VR headset each month and not be in financial trouble, but.. yes but.. It is simple not worth it in its current state. We could talk about all the hassle and some of the health issues as well.. VR is still plagued by many issues.

But again. It is good Valve put in a new push for advances on the field, even if it was just to gain some plublicity and sell some of their own hardware.

Limited ok, but quality? If we talk about game quality, HLA is pretty high standard.

Quality overall is much lower than a game not made for VR. That is the point here.
For VR this game is actually good quality and looks alright as well. But that is not the case of the majority of games and most of those devs/pubs can't take a 20-50 million loss on their games.

[Chaunsey]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

E-PigPan_de eredeti hozzászólása:

Limited ok, but quality? If we talk about game quality, HLA is pretty high standard.

Quality overall is much lower than a game not made for VR. That is the point here.
For VR this game is actually good quality and looks alright as well. But that is not the case of the majority of games and most of those devs/pubs can't take a 20-50 million loss on their games.

HL:A looks good even compared to flat games, and due to being VR, looks much more real when playing.

a lot of environments and assets look basically photoreal.

[Ape]

Dimitris_GR(2008-2014) eredeti hozzászólása:

Shiznown eredeti hozzászólása:

Wow dude, you need to calm down.

You need to understand that Valve did their descision on making it only vr. Deal with it and stop crying as the 90% non vr users in the forums does atm.... Im sick of seeing people -rep cause they cant afford a vr headset that cost only 200-300 but can afford a brand new car around 10k right?!!

HAHA GET A LOAD OF THE BOOMER EVERYBODY. Imagine thinking 10k buys you anything but a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ economy vehicle or a several year old sedan, which, if you live in North America, you require a vehicle to get to most jobs otherwise you're a second class citizen.

Can you really not understand why someone, even with a job may not be able to afford 200-300 dollars out of pocket, but can afford 200-300 dollars a month on financing their car so they can get to work?

[Ape]

Chaunsey eredeti hozzászólása:

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

Quality overall is much lower than a game not made for VR. That is the point here.
For VR this game is actually good quality and looks alright as well. But that is not the case of the majority of games and most of those devs/pubs can't take a 20-50 million loss on their games.

HL:A looks good even compared to flat games, and due to being VR, looks much more real when playing.

a lot of environments and assets look basically photoreal.

I dunno, what happened to people being immersed with games like Oblivion, Morrowind or even text based games? Surely graphics aren't required for immersion, otherwise reading books wouldn't be nearly as popular.