Question about the UI "issues"

[Sabaithal]

More of a survey, since this is a question about the question of said issues. I noticed in the most recent dev diary that apparently the poor UI was causing issues for people giving commands.

Someone needs to explain to me how exactly the UI in this game is obstructive in any way. All the icons are out in the open, big, there isn't a huge complexity of commands, and there are very clear indicators of whether or not a button you just pressed was actually pressed. Plus most ships don't have that much functionality. There's 'move' 'focus fire' 'posture' 'launch munition/strike craft', and a couple of niche functions like 'boost thrusters'.

It seems rather straightforward compared to a game like homeworld, or Nexus tJI, Offworld Resource Base, or any other tactical space simulator. Each of which would have bars on the bottom part of the screen with ambiguous functions, poor color pallet (view obstructing), poor tactical UI on a 3d plane, cluttered and unnecessary information on the screen, having to use control groups constantly, and never being able to tell which ship is which until you pause the game and zoom all the way in on one. Not to mention pausing continuously because having to manage 50+ space ships in real time is practically impossible for a normal human. (despite all that, I still like these games though)

So, care to enlighten me? Screenshots pointing out what specifically is bothering you would be helpful.

[Vanagandr]

The main thing is target selection, IMO. It's rather cumbersome to page through a list of every enemy to select the one I want. Would be tidier if you could just click your intended victim.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Areetsa:

The main thing is target selection, IMO. It's rather cumbersome to page through a list of every enemy to select the one I want. Would be tidier if you could just click your intended victim.

You can actually. The game doesn't tell you, but you can click-select enemy ships for focus fire. When in the target selection bit, just click on the ship you want to be targeting. Granted, if the ship is far away it can be a bit stubborn.

[Vanagandr]

Oof. Thanks.

[Spartan Delta 27]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

More of a survey, since this is a question about the question of said issues. I noticed in the most recent dev diary that apparently the poor UI was causing issues for people giving commands.

Someone needs to explain to me how exactly the UI in this game is obstructive in any way. All the icons are out in the open, big, there isn't a huge complexity of commands, and there are very clear indicators of whether or not a button you just pressed was actually pressed. Plus most ships don't have that much functionality. There's 'move' 'focus fire' 'posture' 'launch munition/strike craft', and a couple of niche functions like 'boost thrusters'.

It seems rather straightforward compared to a game like homeworld, or Nexus tJI, Offworld Resource Base, or any other tactical space simulator. Each of which would have bars on the bottom part of the screen with ambiguous functions, poor color pallet (view obstructing), poor tactical UI on a 3d plane, cluttered and unnecessary information on the screen, having to use control groups constantly, and never being able to tell which ship is which until you pause the game and zoom all the way in on one. Not to mention pausing continuously because having to manage 50+ space ships in real time is practically impossible for a normal human. (despite all that, I still like these games though)

So, care to enlighten me? Screenshots pointing out what specifically is bothering you would be helpful.

To be honest, I never really got the issue either. The game seems very well engineered and the interface is definitely an effective means of creating Three-Dimensional space combat. It is true that the targeting selection cycling can be irritating at times, but I agree that it is not a very serious issue especially when other target methods are available.

[USS Midway veteran]

Never had any problem with it. It's quite simple actually. Remember...KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) and good SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) works best. Doesn't mean it will be easy, but it's the best way to go. Doesn't mean some minor improvements can't be made, but don't stray too far off the path you are on.

[Hannibal0216 도마도 재배자]

Originally posted by Areetsa:

Oof. Thanks.

TIL

[gmuir77]

They really made a huge improvement with the default target making sense -- caps now will target the nearest cap vs. the nearest blip. No, I never want to target raiders with my big guns.

The only real improvement to be made is clarifying the gun angles since it really isn't clear regarding elevation as to why you are and aren't hitting the target. Until I was told to look at the model I had no idea why my manti couldn't hit a close target above the bow.

Also, the colors on the firing arcs aren't clear. I see bands of green, yellow and red in front which seems like I have a weaker gun but the bands to the port and starboard are wide and red and orange so I'm thinking these must be my good guns but I look at the turrets and I've got heavies in front, mediums on the side so wouldn't heavies have a greater range than medium? The manual clarified nothing.

This might be made more clear with some numbers added to the display showing percent chance to hit.

Also, you can highlight the parts of the enemy ship in the detailed target view and see them flash on the model. Is this a precursor towards selecting sub-systems to target? I've seen waggle talk about it but I don't know of any way to achieve targeting more specific than putting my ship off a given quarter and that's pretty hard to arrange.

[lytleclan]

Originally posted by gmuir77:

They really made a huge improvement with the default target making sense -- caps now will target the nearest cap vs. the nearest blip. No, I never want to target raiders with my big guns.

The only real improvement to be made is clarifying the gun angles since it really isn't clear regarding elevation as to why you are and aren't hitting the target. Until I was told to look at the model I had no idea why my manti couldn't hit a close target above the bow.

Also, the colors on the firing arcs aren't clear. I see bands of green, yellow and red in front which seems like I have a weaker gun but the bands to the port and starboard are wide and red and orange so I'm thinking these must be my good guns but I look at the turrets and I've got heavies in front, mediums on the side so wouldn't heavies have a greater range than medium? The manual clarified nothing.

This might be made more clear with some numbers added to the display showing percent chance to hit.

I believe the range of your guns are determined by ship type, with an adjustment for posture. Most ships have a base range of 5000. That can be increased by using +offensive posture and decreased with +defensive posture. One of the advantages for the Berserk is that its base range is 5500 and the new gunship in Sin & Sacrifice, the Heracles, has a greater base range too.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by lytleclan:

Originally posted by gmuir77:

They really made a huge improvement with the default target making sense -- caps now will target the nearest cap vs. the nearest blip. No, I never want to target raiders with my big guns.

The only real improvement to be made is clarifying the gun angles since it really isn't clear regarding elevation as to why you are and aren't hitting the target. Until I was told to look at the model I had no idea why my manti couldn't hit a close target above the bow.

Also, the colors on the firing arcs aren't clear. I see bands of green, yellow and red in front which seems like I have a weaker gun but the bands to the port and starboard are wide and red and orange so I'm thinking these must be my good guns but I look at the turrets and I've got heavies in front, mediums on the side so wouldn't heavies have a greater range than medium? The manual clarified nothing.

This might be made more clear with some numbers added to the display showing percent chance to hit.

I believe the range of your guns are determined by ship type, with an adjustment for posture. Most ships have a base range of 5000. That can be increased by using +offensive posture and decreased with +defensive posture. One of the advantages for the Berserk is that its base range is 5500 and the new gunship in Sin & Sacrifice, the Heracles, has a greater base range too.

I'm pretty sure the minotaur out-ranges the berzerk. I haven't done an in-depth comparison, but just from testing out my fleets it certainly seems that the minotaur is targeting units much further away than the berzerks. Also minotaurs have much more firepower overall.

[gmuir77]

1

Originally posted by lytleclan:

Originally posted by gmuir77:

They really made a huge improvement with the default target making sense -- caps now will target the nearest cap vs. the nearest blip. No, I never want to target raiders with my big guns.

The only real improvement to be made is clarifying the gun angles since it really isn't clear regarding elevation as to why you are and aren't hitting the target. Until I was told to look at the model I had no idea why my manti couldn't hit a close target above the bow.

Also, the colors on the firing arcs aren't clear. I see bands of green, yellow and red in front which seems like I have a weaker gun but the bands to the port and starboard are wide and red and orange so I'm thinking these must be my good guns but I look at the turrets and I've got heavies in front, mediums on the side so wouldn't heavies have a greater range than medium? The manual clarified nothing.

This might be made more clear with some numbers added to the display showing percent chance to hit.

I believe the range of your guns are determined by ship type, with an adjustment for posture. Most ships have a base range of 5000. That can be increased by using +offensive posture and decreased with +defensive posture. One of the advantages for the Berserk is that its base range is 5500 and the new gunship in Sin & Sacrifice, the Heracles, has a greater base range too.

I know posture has bearing but let me give you an example. Enemy ship is within my green cone. I confirm this by rotating the camera so I'm looking down at the enemy. The pedestal the enemy is sitting on rests under the shade of the cone but it's green. I reply the prior turn and don't see anything firing at him. Guns do have the correct elevation. What's going on? Dunno.

And what's the difference in the example I mentioned where the side arc is red and orange out to max and the front arc shows red yellow and green? What does the green even represent?

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by gmuir77:

1

Originally posted by lytleclan:

I believe the range of your guns are determined by ship type, with an adjustment for posture. Most ships have a base range of 5000. That can be increased by using +offensive posture and decreased with +defensive posture. One of the advantages for the Berserk is that its base range is 5500 and the new gunship in Sin & Sacrifice, the Heracles, has a greater base range too.

I know posture has bearing but let me give you an example. Enemy ship is within my green cone. I confirm this by rotating the camera so I'm looking down at the enemy. The pedestal the enemy is sitting on rests under the shade of the cone but it's green. I reply the prior turn and don't see anything firing at him. Guns do have the correct elevation. What's going on? Dunno.

And what's the difference in the example I mentioned where the side arc is red and orange out to max and the front arc shows red yellow and green? What does the green even represent?

You're referring to the fact that the turret firing arcs are displayed as a 2D plane instead of a 3D one? Yeah, I agree this does need to be modified. A lot of ships have dependant Z-axis firing arcs. For example the Adamant and Talon both have serious issues firing at anything below them because all the turrets are top-mounted, but nothing ingame indicates this. You have to manually look at the ship to see it.

[hjess60]

+1 to Sabaithal's comment. I became very frustrated while learning to play due to my turrets not firing when the enemy ship was clearly in arc. Only after some research did I realize about the above and below which made me wonder why the arcs aren't 3d... almost gave up on the game in frustration good thing I kept looking ;) Still is an issue as each new ship I unlock I have to have a list to remember which turrets fire up and down... a 3d firing arc display would easily solve this.

[lytleclan]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by lytleclan:

I believe the range of your guns are determined by ship type, with an adjustment for posture. Most ships have a base range of 5000. That can be increased by using +offensive posture and decreased with +defensive posture. One of the advantages for the Berserk is that its base range is 5500 and the new gunship in Sin & Sacrifice, the Heracles, has a greater base range too.

I'm pretty sure the minotaur out-ranges the berzerk. I haven't done an in-depth comparison, but just from testing out my fleets it certainly seems that the minotaur is targeting units much further away than the berzerks. Also minotaurs have much more firepower overall.

The Minotaur has a +5% range (5250) compared to the Berserk +10% range (5500). Sorry that I did not mention that one.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by lytleclan:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

I'm pretty sure the minotaur out-ranges the berzerk. I haven't done an in-depth comparison, but just from testing out my fleets it certainly seems that the minotaur is targeting units much further away than the berzerks. Also minotaurs have much more firepower overall.

The Minotaur has a +5% range (5250) compared to the Berserk +10% range (5500). Sorry that I did not mention that one.

Well my results were a bit skewed, mostly from having inexperienced officers early-game (when I use berzerks) and experienced officers late-game (when I replace them with minotaurs). As a result, the late-game minotaurs had more posture to benefit from in the observed battles.

[lytleclan]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by lytleclan:

The Minotaur has a +5% range (5250) compared to the Berserk +10% range (5500). Sorry that I did not mention that one.

Well my results were a bit skewed, mostly from having inexperienced officers early-game (when I use berzerks) and experienced officers late-game (when I replace them with minotaurs). As a result, the late-game minotaurs had more posture to benefit from in the observed battles.

Regardless, the Minotaur is a vastly superior ship even without carrying Vipers.