Hot planet getting started with vacuum heat changes

[Poncho]

Hey All
I haven't experimented with this yet but I wanted to start a discussion on the topic.
Typically my early play on Venus have always involved creating a vacuum room that I quickly drink, eat and cool my spare waste tanks down in so I can reuse them as my air tanks at a lower temperature. I figure most people do/did it this way?
With the Just in Time update it sounds like it is not really possible anymore as temperature in the tanks shouldn't reduce in a vacuum. This is great, it always seemed odd that was possible.
What does everyone think is now the best early game strategy for cooling down waste tanks to be able to reuse the oxygen in them until you can get some decent base infrastructure going?

[pryt]

Get used to using an "Air Conditioner".

You can still use the vacuum room tech, just different. Build a 3x2 room, with iron frames. This becomes a vacuum.

Now I build an Air Conditioner and a Filtration Unit. Additional 3 tank connectors with tanks on them. One for Oxygen, the others for whatever you may need.

Use the filtration unit to filter out the oxygen.

Fill the air conditioner waste part with like 40MPa Venus atmosphere, just some pipes with an Active Vent is fine. Build a loop from the oxygen tank to the tank connector to the filtration unit. You can use a volume pump or two to not mix the gas before it's all cooled once.

Now cool down the oxygen with the Air Conditioner unit. Like go down from 80°C to 40°C, then cycle again down to 20°C. You will figure it out.

Since you are in a vacuum your temps should not rise and the gas keeps cool. You can do this without a vacuum aswell, but it's more convenient this way.

[ждун]

Originally posted by Poncho:

Hey All
it sounds like it is not really possible anymore as temperature in the tanks shouldn't reduce in a vacuum.

Why not?

I heard it from others on youtube already, but its wrong or misunderstood. In real world of course things cool down in vacuum too by infrared radiation. If a rigid body is not heated by something it will certainly cool down to absolute zero in vacuum.

[Puma]

You mean a black body? =)

[ждун]

black body and white body, blue and yellow bodies too.

[Zefnoly]

Originally posted by pryt:

Get used to using an "Air Conditioner".

You can still use the vacuum room tech, just different. Build a 3x2 room, with iron frames. This becomes a vacuum.

Now I build an Air Conditioner and a Filtration Unit. Additional 3 tank connectors with tanks on them. One for Oxygen, the others for whatever you may need.

Use the filtration unit to filter out the oxygen.

Fill the air conditioner waste part with like 40MPa Venus atmosphere, just some pipes with an Active Vent is fine. Build a loop from the oxygen tank to the tank connector to the filtration unit. You can use a volume pump or two to not mix the gas before it's all cooled once.

Now cool down the oxygen with the Air Conditioner unit. Like go down from 80°C to 40°C, then cycle again down to 20°C. You will figure it out.

Since you are in a vacuum your temps should not rise and the gas keeps cool. You can do this without a vacuum aswell, but it's more convenient this way.

Ingame air conditioner sucks unless you use the insane exploits where you constantly get -200 degrees with 300W power consumption etc...

Im kinda bummed the devs focus on things like wireless batteries rather than adding a proper AC that isnt broken and hates any form of logic or liquid connections...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2553527102

[ждун]

The trick with the vacuum room for cooling pipes was anyway cheaty, but not because heat transfer is allegedly not possible in vacuum but for another reason.

If you have a vacuum room and a hot pipe in it, what will happen? It depends on the temperature difference between the walls of the room and the pipe and also on the color or better said on their absorbance factor. To simplify things lets assume both pipe and walls were both black (high absorbance factor).

First of all, any rigid body in any environment will always seek energetic balance. It will emit same amount of energy it is absorbing from outside and from inside. If it is absorbing more energy, it will heat up and emit more too. If it absorbs less it will cool down and emit less. If it receives no energy at all, it will cool down to absolute zero (0 °K or -273,15 °C).

In our scenario the walls will be heated from the outside by sunlight and atmosphere and will radiate same amount of energy to the outside environment. They will establish certain temperature (of their material) when reaching energetic balance, assuming that conditions stay same (same amount of energy coming from sun and from atmosphere).

Now the pipe inside vacuum room will also seek energetic balance. It will radiate same amount of energy it is picking up from its internal content. But it will radiate it through the vacuum to the walls. Meaning, the walls will receive more energy then without the pipe and will warm up. Hence the walls will also radiate more. But they will radiate not only to the environment, but a part of their contained energy will be radiated back to the pipe.

So in general, it wont help much if you put a pipe into a vacuum room. It will heat up the walls, and the walls will heat up the pipe. If there is a significant temperature difference between wall and the pipe, it will more or less equilize. Meaning, the pipe will cool down to certain degree and the walls will heat up to certain degree.

Now if you are in an environment like venus where the walls would be heated to like 800 °K by atmosphere, and you put a pipe which has say 500 °K, you will rather heat the pipe with the hot walls.

[ZombieHunter]

Heat transfer CAN happen in a vacuum. Otherwise we would all be dead. It happens via electromagnetic waves. Heat would transfer by radiation and radiation does not need matter to travel.

It is hard for me to wrap my head around temperature in a vacuum b/c I remember the simple explanation of heat being the energy generated by particles moving fast (warmer) or slow (colder). But in a vacuum there are theoretically no particles of air or matter. Heat transfer by radiation is rather difficult to comprehend except I think a microwave is a good example. The microwave is not hot at all but the waves get the particles in your food moving very fast and thus heats up the food and the ambient air near the food.

So theoretically a microwave would work in a vacuum b/c it does not need air to transfer the energy from the source to the food.

Also radio waves and other electromagnetic waves clearly travel through a vacuum or we wouldn't be able to use satellites or communicate with spacecraft. This also means that wireless charging stations would also work in a vacuum although those are also hard to wrap one's head around but they do work.

[Mr. Pestbird]

yeah. the speed of light (299 792 458 m / s) is given in a aboslut vacuum. we dont the shakaing of molecules to transfer heat. :-) but shaking molecules for heat transfer is much more sexy. :-)

[Hoshiko]

I was like you starting fresh on venus and asking myself how to that.
I have found a youtuber (Autom8it) who had made very cleaver and short "How to survive..." on Venus without this vaccum system. It's just the fist days and very adaptive.
It can answer and show you the basics and it help me out to refresh myself with those updaes i haven't follow.
I'm playing Venus and it wasn't easy even with those video.
If it can help anyone like it help me i think it could be great to gratify the work on a non famous passion youtuber :)

Edit : I don't give the direct link because i don't know if it's allowed.

[Hoshiko]

Originally posted by Zefnoly:

Originally posted by pryt:

Ingame air conditioner sucks unless you use the insane exploits where you constantly get -200 degrees with 300W power consumption etc...

Im kinda bummed the devs focus on things like wireless batteries rather than adding a proper AC that isnt broken and hates any form of logic or liquid connections...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2553527102

I agree .. but the furnace and plant can delete heat ^^
I don't think plants are for now sensitive to hot water .. but they made the stationeer sensitive to it last update who knows for the next one.

[Hate Bear]

AC units seem like a prank for now after messing with them on Vulcan on creative trying to figure out any decent cooling loop ideas. It is very hard to cool any significant thermal mass, like even one large room. I'm guessing that moving the machinery itself outside would help with that, ironically (would not IRL almost certainly). Just with lights and 2 APCs and 2 small transformers, 2 of the atmo kit ACs and several regulators in a room with everything insulated going out and one airlock with glass doors, it's EXTREMELY hard to cool a 5x5x1 room. So, beware for now, is about all I can say on that.