I absolutely hate that the baffles are useless

[Team Triss]

You'll stay undetected in them, sure. You can even fire undetected while you're in someone's baffles.

But the moment the torpedo gets within acquisition distance (tested by making them go active as soon as the enemy reacts, and wouldn't you know it, it's right inside the triangle), even if it's not active, enemy subs will fire directly at you. Most of the time they'll continue trucking along at 10kts like they don't know they're being attacked (they shouldn't), but pop noisemakers and swarm torpedoes like it's a knife fight.

I hate it. I even dog-legged a torpedo and an Alfa STILL fired a trio of torpedoes, one of which was aimed right at me. I get firing down a line of bearing, but this is a line of bearing they shouldn't even have, and they'll fire directly at me even if I'm not along the same line of bearing as the torpedo.

I don't expect this is going to get fixed or changed at this point since the team has since broken up and moved on, but I recently picked the game back up and it really grinds my gears that I spend the time and effort sneaking into a sub's baffles for almost no benefit since I get to play Knuckle Simulator 1984 for the next ten minutes anyway.

[The Inept European]

It's a bug. Or a design decision. Or something. But yeah it's really annoying when you sneak one into the baffles and they insta-detect it. I hadn't noticed them also detecting your boat but they definitely detect the torp.

It's not a big deal with a Mk48 but with the 1968 wire guided torps they can just step on the gas and outrun them.

[batteran]

Ennemies very often fire "snap shots" as soon as they detect any transient sound, sonar, or incoming torpedoes.

But the old trick of firing, from the baffles of an ennemy, a couple wired torpedos 30 degree each side (think of a diamond shaped trajectory), very often results in snap shots fired way off your real bearing.

But many things can go wrong: soviets submarine usually switch to active sonar as soon they detect something, planes and all surface assets share informations, there could be a passive sonobuoy or dipping sonar somewhere detecting your transients, ect. Usually, if there is an ASW escort active on the map, it mean you will be detected no matter what sneaky you do.

[The Inept European]

I agree with this, I think they are firing a blind snapshot as soon as they detect the torp, I don't think they know where you are, or if they do, it's from other sources.

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by batteran:

Ennemies very often fire "snap shots" as soon as they detect any transient sound, sonar, or incoming torpedoes.

But the old trick of firing, from the baffles of an ennemy, a couple wired torpedos 30 degree each side (think of a diamond shaped trajectory), very often results in snap shots fired way off your real bearing.

But many things can go wrong: soviets submarine usually switch to active sonar as soon they detect something, planes and all surface assets share informations, there could be a passive sonobuoy or dipping sonar somewhere detecting your transients, ect. Usually, if there is an ASW escort active on the map, it mean you will be detected no matter what sneaky you do.

It's the fact that they detect the torpedo at all. Without a towed array, most of them are (or should be) completely blind behind them.

[The Inept European]

Yes that part is a bug/design decision.

[The Inept European]

Iirc it's a design decision as a kind of failsafe to avoid players exploiting limitations in the AI so they were *never* detected by the AI.

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by The Ex-ept European:

Iirc it's a design decision as a kind of failsafe to avoid players exploiting limitations in the AI so they were *never* detected by the AI.

Yeah, there's something familiar about that line of thinking.

[Technopiper]

If so, it is artificial difficulty at the expense of strategy.

[Dot]

Originally posted by The Ex-ept European:

Iirc it's a design decision as a kind of failsafe to avoid players exploiting limitations in the AI so they were *never* detected by the AI.

Correct. AI autodetects torpedoes closer than 2500 yards.

[The Inept European]

Originally posted by Dot:

Originally posted by The Ex-ept European:

Iirc it's a design decision as a kind of failsafe to avoid players exploiting limitations in the AI so they were *never* detected by the AI.

Correct. AI autodetects torpedoes closer than 2500 yards.

I think the AI sub only autodetects
the torpedo when the torpedo goes active. Meaning it goes into terminal homing, regardless of whether that's with active sonar or passive sonar.

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by The Ex-ept European:

Originally posted by Dot:

Correct. AI autodetects torpedoes closer than 2500 yards.

I think the AI sub only autodetects
the torpedo when the torpedo goes active. Meaning it goes into terminal homing, regardless of whether that's with active sonar or passive sonar.

I think it's distance based; I've done some tests and if I activate the torpedo right as they react to it, it's just inside the Mk48 detection range, but the torpedo wasn't homing beforehand.

[The Inept European]

So activation + a minimum distance?

[Team Triss]

No, I think just minimum distance. In my tests the torpedo was just running to its activation point when they reacted.

[Dot]

Originally posted by LoR Team Triss:

No, I think just minimum distance. In my tests the torpedo was just running to its activation point when they reacted.

Yes, it is only distance based. There is a line in code that makes ai see torpedo closer then 2500 yards regardless of other factors

We decided that this is kinda unfair, so in DotMod I've changed it:
- AI keeps its 6th sense (2500y) if it is on alert(seen player, avoiding torpedo) or if torpedo is using active sonar.
- If AI is disturbed (avoiding terrain, sprinting/stopping to listen) it still can have its magic but much closer - 800y
- If AI is cruising and oblivious to player's presence it can easily detect torpedo when a big hole suddenly appears in its hull ;)

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by Dot:

Originally posted by LoR Team Triss:

No, I think just minimum distance. In my tests the torpedo was just running to its activation point when they reacted.

Yes, it is only distance based. There is a line in code that makes ai see torpedo closer then 2500 yards regardless of other factors

We decided that this is kinda unfair, so in DotMod I've changed it:
- AI keeps its 6th sense (2500y) if it is on alert(seen player, avoiding torpedo) or if torpedo is using active sonar.
- If AI is disturbed (avoiding terrain, sprinting/stopping to listen) it still can have its magic but much closer - 800y
- If AI is cruising and oblivious to player's presence it can easily detect torpedo when a big hole suddenly appears in its hull ;)

So if you've found it in the code, can you see what the AI reaction is supposed to be?

I've seen torpedoes shot down the line of bearing, which makes sense, I've seen them drop noisemakers, which also make sense, but often they will continue trucking along at normal course and speed as though they're oblivious to it.