Enemy wire guidance

[TomBomb]

Do enemy subs use wire guidance pre active scan? Was trying to shake this torp that hadn't gone active, but with every turn it seemed to auto adjust immediately.

[toinkertoy]

Are you allsking if they will adjust the activation point (the little blue square) before the torp goes active?

Interesting question and I don’t know! How would you know it wasn’t active yet?

[TomBomb]

Well, it was within maybe 5,000 yards and it wasn't pinging, so I assumed it wasn't active. The torpedo was still green on the map and not yellow as well. It was going in straight lines, but delayed. Like it wasn't hugging my every move like an active would, but after a couple seconds it would adjust to lead where i was heading, like it was getting a current firing solution.

Later I had another encounter, and the moment I blew up the sub that fired them, they stopped seeking me, so that must have been it.

Also, am I missing how to save mid mission? I was doing bastion and wanted to hang it up for the night, but couldn't find anywhere to save so i had to break it off. Pretty sure all I had left was the boomer.

[toinkertoy]

Yeah I can’t recall exactly what a yellow torp icon means (does it mean it’s active or just that it’s on active ping search) and it should be the case that when you destroy the launching submarine, the wire-guided torpedo will be easier to avoid since there’s no host sub to guide it!

At current there is no in-mission save feature!

[pclark36]

Which campaign were you in? Perhaps it was a passive seeking torp. I believe Green are you can hear them, Yellow you're certain of their location, usually due to pings when active.

[rokvam]

Originally posted by toinkertoy:

Yeah I can’t recall exactly what a yellow torp icon means (does it mean it’s active or just that it’s on active ping search) and it should be the case that when you destroy the launching submarine, the wire-guided torpedo will be easier to avoid since there’s no host sub to guide it!

At current there is no in-mission save feature!

I do beleive a yellow torpedo means it's passed it's activation point and is searching for a target. But a torpedo can be in passive or active search. Though I am not certain that also passive searching torpedoes turn yellow when they go into search mode, I do beleive I have had encounters with "yellow" torpedoes not pinging.

A yellow torpedo on the map, not pinging, is most likely a torpedo in passive search.

If the torpedo was following, without the player beeing able to shake it with knucles or noisemakers, the launching submarine was most likely still un-sunk.

I have also encountered torpedoes seemingly beeing guided towards my sub prior to them beeing enabled.
So it seems the enemy, like us, can adjust their torpedoes path before they reach their enable point.

- Dolphin 48

[boris.glevrk]

Enemy torps do indeed wire-guide before getting into search pattern, and they seem to be exempt from wire limits and wire breaks.
I've seen an Alfa guiding 3 torps (only 1 available when played by player) at me when going at 42 knots... they only lose guidance after they got sunk.

[MERRY COKEMAS]

My standard way of engaging subs at long range is to be at roughly the contact's depth (typically 100-400ft), launch a torpedo a little short of the blue marker for the computed impact point, and then immediately dive to 600ft or deeper while accelerating to full flank if there's a risk of being detected at launch or soon after.

In numerous instances, I've seen enemy green torpedoes draw curved lines on the map, which means the AI made adjustements with the torpedoes' wires.

Luckily, the enemy isn't too good at tracking fast attitude/speed/depth changes, at least at long distances, so you can for example dive at full flank to get under a torpedo's path before it goes active for example.

[sep3]

The enemy definitely moves the activation point prior to activation and adjusts to your course changes. I've done course changes just to see if the enemy fish were still on the wire.

I like to do this:

When I fire on a sub and he snapshots back, I increase speed to 10 kts, put him on my port or starboard beam and activate and aim my torp. I watch his torps adjust to intercept my new course. As soon as my torp hits, I do a 180, leaving his torps well behind me. It seems the enemy doesn't activate early. So my fish get there well before his can get to me.

[Delta_Assault]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Enemy torps do indeed wire-guide before getting into search pattern, and they seem to be exempt from wire limits and wire breaks.
I've seen an Alfa guiding 3 torps (only 1 available when played by player) at me when going at 42 knots... they only lose guidance after they got sunk.

Well that's lame. The AI should play by the same rules we do.

[Justicier10-7]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

I've seen an Alfa guiding 3 torps (only 1 available when played by player) at me when going at 42 knots... they only lose guidance after they got sunk.

Unless you are running a modded install this does not make any sense.

The Alfa uses the SET-65M by default. The Alfa has no wires by default. Neither the vessel file nor the torpedo code for the SET-65M is set up for wire-guidance at all for that vessel/weapon combination. That boat is not guiding wire torps to you...

However, even on a modded install I have not seen enemy subs wire-guiding more torpedos than they have wires, unless the wire count hasn't been properly defined in the vessel files.

I am curious, if you are running a stock install, when you exited the mission, was there any other undetected subs listed? Are you playing in the somewhat bugged 1:1 distance scaling? (some odd torpedo seeker issues have been reported on 1:1)

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Enemy torps do indeed wire-guide before getting into search pattern, and they seem to be exempt from wire limits and wire breaks.

They are not exempt from wire breaks. Every time I am up against a sub I know is using wire-guided torps I counter-fire immediately to get them to cut it and evade. However, just because I launched on them does not mean that they will immediately cut the wire and go. They hold that wire for as long as they can, usually up until the point in which your torpedo has locked onto them and is in terminal homing.

Originally posted by Delta_Assault:

Well that's lame. The AI should play by the same rules we do.

From all the testing I have done and all the stuff I have seen the AI do, for the most part, it does play by the same rules.

The biggest exceptions where it doesn't are:
- The uncannily accurate ASW Aircraft (which I still hope KFG will fix)
- Extremely fast reflexes in counter-fire (way too quick for real-life, but also just slightly too fast
to accurately mimic human reaction time in-game)
- Torpedos launched from surface vessels that do not track other surface vessels, but will still track you if you are on the surface. (Not necessarily a bad thing, it's not fun getting blamed for civilian shipping losses because the enemy accidentally torped them)

[Jsunflyguy]

Originally posted by Justicier:

The biggest exceptions where it doesn't are:
*snip*
- Torpedos launched from surface vessels that do not track other surface vessels, but will still track you if you are on the surface. (Not necessarily a bad thing, it's not fun getting blamed for civilian shipping losses because the enemy accidentally torped them)

Confirmed, this is a relatively recent change because a MOSS could cause a fleet to self destruct. Now all weapons are player-seeking (even subs as far as I can tell) and are immune to Merchant masking or Return-to-sender tactics.

[toinkertoy]

Yes I’m pretty sure it’s more accurate to say “all AI weapons are submerged contact seeking” since enemy torpedoes will still detect and go after their own!

[Killerfish Games]

All AI torpedoes have a ceiling set so as not to engage surface targets.
However, they will still detect the player submarine at shallow depths/surfaced.

This was a game design decision as it was too easy to always win sub vs sub actions simply by surfacing your boat and firing at an enemy who's torpedoes could never lock onto your sub in return.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Justicier:

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Enemy torps do indeed wire-guide before getting into search pattern, and they seem to be exempt from wire limits and wire breaks.

They are not exempt from wire breaks. Every time I am up against a sub I know is using wire-guided torps I counter-fire immediately to get them to cut it and evade. However, just because I launched on them does not mean that they will immediately cut the wire and go. They hold that wire for as long as they can, usually up until the point in which your torpedo has locked onto them and is in terminal homing.

Unless we are playing different games, they are exempted.
they do NOT cut their wire when evading, even at full speed. I have seen Mings, Songs and the like guiding when sailing at cavitating speed and completely facing away from me.

They are not affected by baffles, losing torp solutions on me, or supposed wire breaks at high speed.

About the Alfa thing I was just trying to say "enemy subs wire guide a lot more torps and at faster speeds than they should", having Alfa as an example was my fault.