Crush Depth: Interesting Point and more.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

So, my father was a Reactor Operator on the U.S.S. Sturgeon back before it was retired (and it's Sail sent off to the Smithsonian or what not) and wanted to show this title to him and get his opinion.

He liked it, but he did of course pick it apart. Obviously, we both agreed that actual speeds and dive depth abilities are classified to hades and back again, and EVERY number with few exceptions is speculation/estimation, but I did get something interesting out of him about crush depth.

Crush Depth is not the point in which your sub implodes like an empty soda can in the fist of an action movie star. Crush Depth is defined as the point where the sub starts taking on permanent hull deformation damage, essentially resulting in the vehicle being a write off when you return to port.

What the game is currently calling crush depth is apparently actually collapse/implosion depth. Thus, it might actually be of some interest to the devs at some point to adjust for accuracy and alter the crush mechanic.

IoW: Change 'Crush Depth' to 'Implosion Depth' and set it deeper on all subs than it is now. Then add in a new mechanic for Crush Depth where the sub starts taking hull damage that increases in severity the deeper below crush depth the vessel goes. When the sub's slowly falling hull integrity and the slowly rising implosion depth meet... POP!



It is also my opinion based on the incredulousness of his reaction to various numbers that speeds are 5 to 10 knots too slow, and max depths are a thousand feet too shallow. Of course, he went on to point out that the Official Maximum Depth of any submarine in the fleet given out when he was in was an old WWII answer: "Greater than 400 Feet."


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Oh, and that reminds me... BIG thing he mentioned. Depth of a sub is measured from the bottom of the keel. Not the midpoint of the hull. (He freaked out when I went to scope depth at 50 feet. Told me scope depth was 80 feet. We crossed our math and agreed that 30 feet of difference seemed about right for the measurement of the depth being mid-hull.)

He also mentioned that no sub in its right mind would do any kind of speed at 50 feet depth, not because it would cavitate, but because the sub would form a surface hump in the water.

The more you know...

[delfigrey]

There is also the fact that creep speed is not 5 knots for every sub. They also list noise decibels for diesels when they're running the diesel engine. They should list the decibels for the electric engine as well so you know exactly how quiet that Ming is submerged.

In Silent Hunter I routinely go well below 400 feet to evade destroyers. Go down that deep and creep along at 2 knots and they will lose you or lose interest.

[Irving Mainway]

I don't think I can properly explain the way it works off hand but the "crush depth" in this game is randomly calculated within a range i.e. when you pass beyond a given point of no return you have a random chance of imploding (i.e. you might be able to push your Skipjack which has a 750 foot test depth, to 1550 ft but next time it might collapse at 1200 or randomly at anywhere past 1000, hull damage also comes into play here too).

As far as the figures go, to the best of my knowledge they are all based on publically released data sourced from books like Friedman's "US Submarines since 1945" but I don't doubt that there are some differences between what's been released and actual capability.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Oh, I know how the crush depth works. There's a thread that makes it clear. In game, the depth is an RNG that's triggered somewhere between 1.5 and 1.75 X test depth. So if my test depth was 1000 feet, my crush depth could implode me anywhere from 1500 feet, to 1750 feet at random. I'm assuming the selection is made in the engine the moment you past test depth, and it sets a 'you die here' value until you go above test depth again, then sets it again the next time you do so.

I was also informed that the creep speed when he was in was 3 knots minimum. So I just left that one alone because he did plug 'minimum' into his statement.

[Pilot]

Cold Waters is a game. The figures are supplied by KFG, the sources for those figures are their business. They set the limits, those are the limits of the game.

Everyone plays the game differently, because it is a game, not a training aid.

Kudos to your Father AT, but we really should be focusing on the game, not its difference to RL. Play within the game's parameters and enjoy, Being continually critical will spoil the game for you.

Think about an ex-Turrethead playing WoT or ship's Captain playing WoW...... Just a thought.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

My father's very cynical, and I'm well aware of 'it's just a game' arguments. Just don't argue that with him.

However, I'm of the opinion that when you have a game that likes to advertise itself in how accurate some points are, being able to inch that accuracy up a notch without any real cost in time, coding, or fun, it should be done. Because why not?

It's not like I'm asking for Life of a Sonar Operator 2018-19. If I wanted that, I'd have joined the navy. But at the same time, I definitely appreciate elements of accuracy where they can be applied. From the right phrasing for orders to propulsion, to the right kind of sound for a sonar burst (I didn't even know active sonar sounded like what we hear until I heard it). The accuracy gives immersion.

[Pilot]

Originally posted by AdmiralTigerclaw:

My father's very cynical, and I'm well aware of 'it's just a game' arguments. Just don't argue that with him.

All fair comments AT.
I hilighted the above comment because it can be oh so true for many Dads, particularly those who have served their country. In fact, as a (civvy) pilot, I couldn't get over how far off the mark World Of Warplanes was, especially as I've flown some of the (older) aircraft they included in the game. Never really complained, just a few private remarks, overheard by family members, and I was severely admonished for them, lol. I'm a granddad btw, got 4 of the GKs living with us, so must watch my language.......

I still have to work out how I can get my subs to do loops, but I think we need bigger planes and more speed, lol. Nothing like doing a loop or aileron roll with an unsuspecting passenger, lmao.

We all get a bit more cynical as we age......

Respect my friend :)