Narwhal II - What do you think?

[mm299m]

I originally proposed this idea to Jive a few months back - he was noncommital, so I contacted Captain X3. Per the game, Narwhal was quietest until Seawolf due to her natural circulating reactor, which was experimental. Per Wiki, Narwhal was designed in early '60's, and commissioned in '69, being decommissioned circa 1999. This is a fifty-year period, and as I originally said to Jive, a new Narwhal would possibly be quieter than Seawolf or even Virginia, what with improvements in design, hull, acoustics, and anechoic tiling that have occurred since the original Narwhal was commissioned.

Additionally, Wiki went on to state that there are NO submarines currently using natural circulating reactors of any class in USN.

[r4y30n]

The new big thing is integrated electric propulsion, it eliminates the need for the huge low speed turbine the Narwhal had and completely decouples the power plant from the propeller. Theoretically you’d have all the advantages of nuclear with the low noise of a diesel sub. It’s being considered for the Columbia SSBN.

[mm299m]

I wonder if CaptainX3 was aware of that when I suggested upgrading Narwhal. He informed me that if the noise level generated by Narwhal II went down any farther, that the game would be broken.

[oh6cayuse]

Not sure where you are getting “NO (NC) NATURAL CIRCULATION PLANTS IN USN”, the S8G (of the Ohio's) was developed utilizing many lessons learnt from the S5G (of Narwhal) and thusly does incorporate NC.

Furthermore, it is likely that given the Seawolf's girth (NC requires a somewhat larger system of coolant vessels than pure pressurized water plants, but remember that even a NC plant is still a pressurized water plant, they are not mutually exclusive) that the S6W (of Seawolf’s) does also.

Finally, I would bet that the PWR2 (of Vanguard’s & Astute’s) also utilizes NC, again given the girth of these two boats.

Ultimately, I would therefore say that the Seawolf’s are effectively Narwhal II’s.

The issue surrounding turbo electric is also not so simple, the plants ultimately produce dry stream that drives a combined high to low pressure (usually 4 spool) turbine. Weather this is for direct drive or for alternators, it will still be fairly big. The Columbia / Dreadnought concept can be loosely summed up in this[4.bp.blogspot.com] graphic.

[mm299m]

If you read the beginning of this topic, information came from Wikipedia, which went on to say that all existing US subs used cooling pumps on their reactors, not natural circulation reactors.

[jrf773]

Originally posted by mm299m:

If you read the beginning of this topic, information came from Wikipedia, which went on to say that all existing US subs used cooling pumps on their reactors, not natural circulation reactors.

When I see stuff like this, it makes me think that you are a troll...

From the Wikipedia article:

"Very little of the Narwhal's design was based on the Sturgeon-class submarine. Being a unique design she was her own class. Her power plant, engine room, and forward compartment layout were unlike any other U.S. submarine. Forward of her reactor compartment the crew enjoyed more available space and berthing than her Thresher/Permit, Sturgeon, or Los Angeles-class sisters. Access aft was provided by two separate reactor tunnels, each with their own water-tight doors. Her engine room was spacious and well laid out.

Elements of her propulsion were incorporated in later ship classes, especially the Ohio class, but no other submarine has used all of Narwhal's innovations. These innovations included a natural circulation reactor plant, scoop seawater injection (which was not repeated), the ability to cross connect main and auxiliary seawater systems, and a directly coupled main engine turbine. Her small reactor coolant pumps had two speeds: On and Off. The result was the quietest submarine of her era, and for many years to follow. Her silence was equaled only by the Ohio class and finally surpassed by the Seawolf class.

Narwhal was fitted with a "turtleback" structure just forward of her rudder that may have been used for remote-controlled underwater vehicles, or for housing an experimental towed sonar array. "

Another way to say it would be some but not all of the innovations.

The above section links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_circulation which gives the S5G and the S8G as examples of plants that use natural circulation.

Which links to an article about the S8G, here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S8G_reactor

WHICH mentions this:This nuclear reactor utilizes natural circulation which is capable of operating at a significant fraction of full power without reactor coolant pumps.

The information about the Seawolf's reactor is classified.

[mm299m]

Thank you for your clarification. I missed seeing the article re: S8G reactor. Per Wiki, The three ships of the Seawolf class USS Seawolf (SSN-21), USS Connecticut (SSN-22), and USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23) submarines were built with S6W reactors and Virginia with SG9.

I made an incorrect generalization.

Thank you for the correction. I hope you enjoy the Narwhal II and CaptainX3's great work.