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If there is a layer, have your sub on the opposite side of it than the torpedo. So make it lose you than gun it for the layer. Make sure to be full planes and use your ballast to rise and sink faster.
If there are any wrecks, hide your sub around that, it confuses the torpedo (and any other contact's sensors)
It is very frustrating but thats how it is and I assume models real life.
Also watch Jive Turkey on YouTube, he is darn good at this game. I find watching someone get into hairy situations helps me learn better and pick up tips. The ones I listed I learned from Jive.
There does come a point where you're just so overwhelmed that the torpedo will get you. There is no full proof plan.
Is that just how the gameplay is? I dont see how you are supposed to be able to actually do the intricate dodging (especially against like, 8 torpedoes) and knuckling while also trying to fire your own stuff and guide your torpedoes. Beause it seems like whenever I have to take on a task force, it is damn near impossible because its me getting off one or two shots and then playing grab ass with torpedoes for 30 minutes. I can never seem to get to an appropriate distance away to just leave and cut my losses, the ships ALWAYS place their torpedo shots perfectly right on top of me, even when i lose sonar contact, and I can never leave the battle. RIght when I am about to see if i can leave a torpedo comes out of nowehere and its already on top of me.
It just constantly feels like I am doing it completely wrong but I honestly do not know how else to approach the game. I always end up outnumbered and spammed with torpedoes every waking second, making the game into a glorified obstacle runner until it runs me out of patience and i eventually slip up and get tagged and sink.
Are you firing missiles at escorts? That will certainly cause a torpedo spam. And once a spam starts, it's hard to get out of it. The enemy will hear you running at flank, dropping noisemakers, leaving knuckles, firing MOSS, etc. And the air assets (helos and MPAs) will help to keep you busy (this is where those torpedoes that "just appear" are coming from). And they will also help the escorts track you so they can keep shooting at you.
Only use missiles after all the escorts are sunk. The remaining air assets cannot spam you as much as the escorts can. Then you can use missiles on escaping merchants.
Use torpedoes on escorts first. Dogleg them towards the target so they come in from a different bearing than your own. The enemy will counterfire on that (erroneous) bearing.
If you have a thermocline, fire your torpedoes below that layer. Keep them below the layer on approach to the target. This way your fish can sometimes get really close (2-4 kyds) to the target before they detect it. Once they detect it (and you'll know when they do), activate the torp(s) (to increase speed) and bring them above the layer to acquire the target.
If you do it this way, you will rarely have a large torpedo spam. Not to say that it still can't happen (and it will), but it certainly won't happen as much.
2. Knuckling doesn't work? three possibilities:
2a. The torpedo is set to turn off after the knuckle disappears. So >>>"if you constantly make knuckles, it may never turn off"<<<
2b. Advanced torpedoes, it will only turn off when you are somewhat angled from it when you make knuckle. For example, torpedo directly behind, knuckle -> no effect; torpedo at 30 degrees from direct behind, knuckle and turn the opposite direction -> effective.
2c. you are at a different depth, so a knuckle directly behind you doesn't work. Wait for the enemy torp to reach the same depth with you.
3. High angle to evade torpedo requires ballast and diveplane. For example when a torp is approaching, go -30 diveplane and -30 ballast, you will dive very fast, so fast, that the torp fails to follow, and pass above you and circle around to find you again.
4. MOSS is usually used to trick enemy ships and planes into shooting at the wrong target, but it can be used to trick torps when used correctly. Two major points: keep just the right distance and make sure the torp finds the MOSS first. More detailed tips will be written later, if I have the time...
Unlike our MK48's, which will go into countermeasure homing the instant a noisemaker is dropped or a knuckle is formed, enemy torps do not seem to act the same.
In my observations, enemy torps will home in on a noisemaker and then go into countermeasure homing. Not sure why this is, but it will only turn off after passing. It does the same with knuckles. It will turn off after 1) it passes the knuckle (which, BTW, means it's already too f'ing close), or 2) as soon as the knuckle dissipates.
So why don't we want to use these together? A noisemaker lasts a lot longer than a knuckle. If you are at flank avoiding torps, use knuckles. Say the torp is 1000 yards behind you. You create a knuckle. Wait for the knuckle to dissipate. It'll happen quickly and the torp will start to turn off. Watch which way it turns. You turn in the opposite direction to put it behind you and to gain distance. When the torp finally does turn back and re-acquires, it is now like 1200 yards behind. Rinse, repeat. And do not spam knuckles. One at a time is sufficient.
But, if you drop a noisemaker during all of this, the torp will home on it until it passes it. It will ignore knuckles, and since noisemakers last so long the torp will close much more distance on you before finally turning off. So now, when it turns back to re-acquire it's now only 800 yards behind.
So, what are noisemakers good for then? They are for when you are slow, shallow and quiet and that damned air-dropped torp hits the water next to you. Go flank, drop a noisemaker and turn away from the torp. If it acquires and you are not up to speed yet, you may have to drop a second noisemaker. But, when you are up to speed, use knuckles.
All of this is good for any number of torpedoes that are behind you.
If, though, you are spammed by 8 torpedoes dropping in at every point of the compass... pray. Then find a hole to drive through and do the above. Good luck.
If you have more than 500 ft to play with, this is an exellent way to avoid losing the wires, while at the same time avoiding those pesky torpedoes.
It takes some practise, but when mastered, you won't have to use speed and rudder / planes ever again.
At least when engageing the enemy somwhere deep.
Be aware, this is not something that a real submarine skipper would do. Those seeking to emulate true submarine tactics probably won't like this trick.
But it sure is effective.
- Dolphin 38
True, that does work. I'm really just talking about when you have no option but to run.
You must prioritize your targets. First up is obviously anything that can shoot back and kill you. Some surface ships are more of a threat than others. Me, I want to kill the efficient sub killers such as the Udaloys and the Capital ships as quickly as possible. My first strike, making use of the element of surprise targets all the warships at the same time. I try to get into position so that these ships are sailing directly at me or away from me. I fire a cruise missile and a Maverick at each one. I launch a follow-up torpedo at surface level and make it active (to provide some sort of target confusion for the enemy) in the general vicinity of each one. If the wire breaks while I am adjusting position after the missile launch, chances are my torps will find a warship or a cargo ship on their own. If the missiles work, I’ll redirect the torps towards the transports
If a warship or two is too close for missiles I'll dog leg torps at it/them and use the transit time to get ready for my missile launch (on torp impact) and/or send more torps towards the fleet to get ready for the course/speed changes that are going to come.
There are only general concepts at play here. Each sub and each target has different abilities and an effective strategy doesn’t port well to all vessels and scenarios. With six or more enemy torps circling, either the ships or the aircraft have found you. Priority #1 is to get lost again. In shallow water, on the higher difficulty settings, you will most likely not survive an enemy torpedo swarm so you have to avoid getting into that situation. In the thick of it, the course of action is clear – fire a moss or two in a direction away from the course you are going to assume, get to flank speed putting the swarm behind you and do not slow down until the number of remaining enemy torps is manageable or nonexistent. At this point, screw cavitations and trying to be quiet. You’re already found, you can hide again later, but for now, you’re being chased and you had better be faster than the fastest torp chasing you. Get to flank speed first then if necessary, change course gradually so as not to provide any torps the opportunity to close the distance by slicing across your arc. Thankfully, air dropped torps have a shorter runtime than vessel launched torps so if you can get them behind you and are careful of any turns you make, you can quickly and steadily begin to reduce their numbers.
Yeah, it can be a little boring to mop up the transports that are running away, but at least they don’t shoot back at you. If you have any missiles left, it’s fairly straight forward to sink transports starting with the ones furthest away. Fire, change depth/course, disappear then repeat as often as necessary. At this point, stealth is more important than speed. MOSS are effective at luring aircraft away from where you really are. Launch one before a course/depth change and you’re usually good for another missile salvo if needed after you change position.
In the 1968 campaigns and missions where modern weapons are not available, it is still just as important to plan where you are going, what you are going to do and how you are going to get away before you start firing. Radar/sonar in that time period is not as robust as in the modern missions so you can get closer a bit more easily, but you still have to be ready to break contact and run, when the situation warrants.
Sort of like Red October killing Konovolev with its own torpedo. I've done that trick before with a MOSS. It's more fun trolling a sub with the MOSS though.
Doesn't really work when a missile torp lands in the water right on your head, then does a spiral down to your depth :D
I can get it to work sometimes, but if I'm swarmed, I make sure any wired torps are on course and activate them if necessary then I get the heck out of there as fast as I can. Torps behind me I can deal with.
Many will tell you that the name of the game is 'stealth', but I think the name of the game is sleight of hand and misdirection.
See, what is the first thing you do when an enemy launches on you and you see it? Well, you snap bearing shots off and RUN.
So why wouldn't an enemy snap shots down the bearing line of your own torpedo shots?
The first thing you should realize when you take a shot, is that if the enemy hasn't gotten a bearing on you at launch, you really shouldn't sit there and continue to draw a bearing line with a torpedo shot that comes straight back to you.
Enter the Wire.
When you take a torpedo shot, don't shot straight at a target. Fire off-angle, let the torpedo drive out a few thousand yards, then turn it onto the intercept. Draw a line from the tail of the torpedo out behind it and see where that goes. When the torpedo gets into range of enemy detection, they'll drop noise makers and lob their own shots down the bearing where that torpedo's tail is. It's the only lead they have, so they take it. Ideally, if you keep an eye on where all your lines cross in your head, enemy weapons will end up 8,000 yards the other side of the ocean from you and you'll be watching the torpedos swim harmlessly in circles (if they're air-delivered) or snake into the distance (if launched directly from a boat).
The other thing to keep in mind is that the AI uses the same bearing locializing routine your own sub uses to narrow a contact's position down. The system is essentially one-point 'triangulation' over time. So if you're operating at the edges of detection range, locking in a target is all about mearsuring the bearing every minute or so and seeing how it changed. A little bit of triganometry later and you get range estimates. Anything driving along in a straight line pretty much hands that formulat to you and your crew solves for target solutions faster.
And like I said, the AI do the same thing. So the best thing you can do as you sneak along at 5 knots is immediately course change if you suspect they might be drawing a line on you. This has nothing to do with active sonar. If you're at great ranges, you're all but immune to Active.
(The reason is that low frequency sounds pass through solid objects ((or liquids)) better than high frequency sounds. Active Sonars need to be mid to high frequencies so they bounce off objects to produce a return, but that same property means they deteriorate faster in a water medium.)
When you make the course change, the bearing track that was locking in on you is pretty much reset (provided they don't have you locked in already). So small bearing changes mean that AI trying to figure you out at long range are going to fail. They'll still have a bearing, but the thing they lose that is the most important is your precise range.
A hail of air-dropped torpedos landing in the water is a whole lot less scary when they hit the waves 4,000 yards SHORT of your position and turn circles for five minutes.
Counter-tactics against torpedos that are actually a threat like using the MOSS are for situations where you know that the shots will have you pinned. The snaking action of a ship-launched or sub-launched heavyweight torpedo can be a little more of a problem due to the tendency for those shots to be bracket shots around your general bearing. Getting them to fire those on a false bearing can REALLY save you a headache.
Of course, when you are in doubt the best defense is always a good offense. The enemy cannot shoot at you while they're busy going 'OH CRAP! OH CRAP! OH CRAP!' as a Mk-48 chases them around (they also can't hear because flank speed). Your limitation for firing slow is matched by enemy subs. And surface ships don't do so hot with the return fire when they're making flank bell and hard rudder. So in situations where you know you'll be doing the torpedo dance, the best counter is to immediately snap off as amny tubes as you can, and get the enemy dancing with you. That keeps them from putting MORE weapons in the water for a little while (meaning less to evade), maybe kills a few of them, and has them dropping noise makers and cavitating all over Poseidon's domain.
One thing I do suggest is to actually play the game at the 1:1 distance/time ratio settings. Yeah, the game drags. But time compression is an F9 key away. The thing you get from 1:1 settings is TIME. Time to think, take your eyes off the screen, check the environment, and think about what's going on.
That's one thing that most games just don't like to give you the luxury of. In the quest to keep you stimulated continuously, you aren't allowed time to act reasonably. This game does. Take advantage of it.
If you've not counter-fired at them, they will just walk this fish right on to your position regardless of what kind of decoys you deploy, your only chance is to outmanuver the fish in the vertical plane which may not be possible depending on how much depth you have to play with.
As hard as it sounds, if you have something like a TEST71 or a Yu5 shot at you while you're running, take the time to slow down below 20 knots and return fire down that bearing, forcing him to haul away and break his wire and give yourself a much better chance at staying alive.