Any advice on how to play the Seawolf ?

[SparxOne]

Been playing the 1984 campaign quite a bit, got enough experience to know most of what's going on and how to deal with it in most cases. Problem is i'm finding it really hard to play the new China sea campaign with the Seawolf. Torpedo evasion but especially remaining undetected throughout an attack, almost impossible.

I wanted to bump up the difficulty a bit from the "walk in the park of 1984 campaign" and therefore changed the setting to "Realistic", don't know what exactly the setting changes in terms of gameplay difficulty but the difference is really felt !
On my first few missions, i had to take out sub groups and simply couldn't even manage finding them, they simply were undetectable... Going to my hardest part is surviving or staying undetected from helicopters and planes, they seem WAY too overpowered, just yesterday, go into an attack of a repplenishment convoy, start the attack from a good 16KYD, i could see helis far away dipping their sonars, feeling safe enough i launch a salvo of 4 torpedoes and turn 90° left from initial course to make sure any counter attack weapons don't come straight in my face.
No more than 5 minutes later, i get hit by a torpedo that was launched by one of the helis, obviously this was just the start of what very soon became a sworm of torps that i had to face off while boats who survived now were heading straight for me... I was running fully silent, miles away from them and had made a course change just after my salvo...

How do these damned helis so easily find us, or how do we stay undercover of them during a entire attack ?

How is it best to pick up ennemy subs ?

What is the best attack technique while remaining undetected ?

How do we escape torpedoes ?

[Safetypin]

To start: the Seawolf is quieter than the LA class, so running ultra quiet will blend you into the surroundings, so to speak. However, launch transients from your weapons are heard, even from great distances away (depending on ambient noise). In realistic settings (and even more so on elite difficulty) the detection of transient sounds of you firing torps results in snapshots in your direction. Be aware of that.

I've found the new campaign very challenging. Almost every mission that involves surface vessels will have air support. And on top of that, most missions take place in littoral waters whith very limited depth to hide in.

Even if you haven't fired a single torp yet, be aware that the ASW aircraft are dropping sonobuoys (the passive ones are not shown on the map, only the active ones) all around. They will pick you up as soon as you start firing or cavitating.

Detecting diesel subs is still a p.i.t.a. Yesterday, I fired a spread of torps towards 3 surface vessels. I changed the course of one of the torps to match the updated firing solution and then I got counterfired but not by the warship but by the undetected Kilo that thought the torp was meant for him and lost it's kool and fired on me, revealing his position so I could then assign that torp to him. Choas ensued. I had to evade his weapon, which forced me to go flank, thus cavitating, thus revealing my position to all those sonobuys and thus being ambushed by ASW aircraft, running from air dropped torps, dodging depth charges (which didn't go so well, lost the bow sonar) firing TASM over the shoulder to my intended target, the supply ship. The mission started out in controll but turned apesh*t very fast. I survived the ordeal but this tender was defended by 4 warships, a sub, a helo and a fixed wing ASW aircraft.

The Seawolf has different cavitation parameters than the other boats though, because of the different propulsion. Normally you can calculate cavitation depth by multiplying your speed with 20 and then subtracting 100. So if you go 20 knots, you cavitate at a depth of 300 feet or less. The Seawolf has better performance in regards to cavitation. You multiply by 15 in stead of 20 but you still subtract 100. So if you go 20 knots, you cavitate at a depth of 200 feet or less.

However, many missions are in very shallow waters thus torpedo evasion speed will cause cavitation. I found out that big course changes are needed constantly to avoid the planes dropping depth charges. Use MOSS to distract multiple incoming torps but also to try to fool ASW aircraft. You do need to make no noise after firing, otherwise they wil quickly pick you up after finding out the MOSS is not the real target.

In my opinion, the South China Sea campaign is all about handling aerial detection while still being able to fight. You may still be able to surpise them but as soon as you fire, get ready. Oh, and I don't use fancy torpedo moves anymore, like dog legging, since they need to be fire and forget (I'll be loosing wires as soon as I start evading incoming and therefore my torps need to be spot on or at least able to help themselves). I need to focus on getting the hell out without getting ripped apart in these shallow waters.

Oh, and don't worry using missiles while aircraft are around. They know your position anyways. The key is evading the depth charges and torps.

I decided to change my default loadout as well. No AGM's but TASMs and a lot more MOSSes (I carry 8). If you dont like land stike missions, then dump the TLAMs as well.

[rokvam]

Strange, but playing on Elite, I don't have the issues you are reporting...

On TLAM missions I always focus on taking out any and all surface and submerged targets before ever launching any missiles. Most of my engagements start at 20 - 25 kyd.

To me, dog-legging is the key to avoiding beeing overflown by MPA and helos, and counter fired torpedoes end up beeing fired in the wrong bearing... Also, this way I keep my wires... I am a wires man.

I have yet to need the moss, but I can see it can be useful for that odd occation a ASW helo lucks out and dip in my near surroundings.

I have found that focus must be on maintaining the wires, and one way to do this is as mentioned up top, the active use of dog-legging. I aim for my target first, and upon veryfying the wire is intact, I steer the torpedo 90 ° out to the left and right, and far away from my sub before turning it towards the target.

Don't Brother with TMA legs... Use the scope to verify solution, or If the prospect of this worry you, just shoot on bearing.

If you like the scope, like I do, just be sure to train the external view to the bearing of the contacts you want to look at, before raising the scope, this way you don't waste precious time turning the scope to the right bearing. to minimize mast exposure. Don't expose your mast for more than five seconds at a time, and get sollutions on one and one contact.

I have yet to be forced to cut my wires when using this tactic.

After the surface and/or submerged targets are taken out, go as deep as possible, increase to 15 kts, and launch all eight missiles. After launch go to flank, and turn 90 degrees.

The MPA will come running, but with any luck, his air dropped torpedoes (if he has anyone left), will hit the water far behind you. You might have to do some knucles. More often than not though, he has dropped them along one of your torpedoes path.

When you hear him approach, turn 70-90 degrees to avoid his extremely accurate depth charges. He might have four clusters of three charges.
After they are dropped, all he can do, is angrilly drop bouys on you

Ohh Yeah... I always use active and up when shooting on surface contacts. When your torpedoes are detected along their dog leg route, activate them... The cat is out of the bag anyway...

- Dolphin 38

[SparxOne]

Thanks both of you for your very interesting and complete stories and infos ! Will try and remember all that when in action and apply it all or try them out at least :)

Just a quick question as we're at it, could you please care to explain to me exactly how the sensors work on our sub and how to use/understand them ? (I'm talking about the numbers and name tags in the signatures tab, Active LF, Passive LF LF, Towed MF, etc). Does working properly with them and understanding them well actually give that much more of an advantage and possibility of tactical decision ?

On a side note, a quick snap of how OP those helis are, how is that even serious ?
---> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1392839214

[w1zard]

I think there might be a bug with the Seawolf's sonar, or it's sonar may be undertuned relative to its actual performance. I regularly have problems detecting subs on passive sonar under perfect conditions at <10K yard ranges. Even crappy soviet era subs.

The other day, a Song going 10+ knots got within 5K yards of my bow without being detected, I was running ultra quiet.

Also, the planes seem to always know where you are. I get that they have magnetic sensors, but those should be useless if you are running deeper than 500 feet right?

[Safetypin]

About the sensor numbers on the signature tab, if any of the numbers are above 10 you detect the enemy and he detects you. However, once detected, you can still track the enemy with sonar values <10, as long as they are above 1.

Understanding the numbers is key in manoeuvering into position. If your active sonar is negative, don't switch it on. You will not get a return but by turning it on, you massively increase the passive numbers of the enemy (your active is giving your position away).

If you want to be safe from detection, make sure the active of the enemy stays under 10. If above 10 he only needs to switch on active and he will have a 90% SOL on you immediately. So if enemies active is over 10, be prepared to immediately fire on him because he will fire on you very shortly after he has gone active.

Also, when tracking a target on your towed array only, you cannot turn into the target, i.e. put your sub between the target and your towed array or you will loose contact. Very frustrating if you are close to a good firing solution.

You can also use the numbers to detect if you are in the target's baffles. If his numbers drop to -50 on active and passive, you are in his baffles. He can't hear you, even if you make a lot of noise by going fast or firing a weapon. The baffles are the perfect position to attack from but be aware, the target only needs to turn +/- 20 degrees or so to see who is in his baffles. If you are making to much noise when he does that, you will be detected.

You will see that your own numbers vary with speed. Increase your speed gradually or you risk loosing the contact. The enemy's numbers also vary with his speed. So keep this in mind when approaching a faster moving target. Because his numbers will improve significantly when he slows down to a crawl. You could be safe from detection and a moment later you're detected.

And BTW, this is all under the assumption that you've correctly identified the target. A mistake in identification will give you wrong information about the contact sonar capabilities!

[Gralzeim]

Originally posted by w1zard:

Also, the planes seem to always know where you are. I get that they have magnetic sensors, but those should be useless if you are running deeper than 500 feet right?

Aircraft in Cold Waters are, sometimes, just exceptionally good at figuring out where you are. Sometimes even if you enter a mission at 5kts and immediately cut to 0 and order silent running, aircraft will still find you within a minute or less.

Other times, they struggle to find you the entire mission unless you cavitate a lot.

It's very weird.

[DCBenton]

Originally posted by w1zard:

I think there might be a bug with the Seawolf's sonar, or it's sonar may be undertuned relative to its actual performance. I regularly have problems detecting subs on passive sonar under perfect conditions at <10K yard ranges. Even crappy soviet era subs.

The other day, a Song going 10+ knots got within 5K yards of my bow without being detected, I was running ultra quiet.

Also, the planes seem to always know where you are. I get that they have magnetic sensors, but those should be useless if you are running deeper than 500 feet right?

If you are playing on Elite the AI gets boosted sensors beyond what would be realistic.