MAD DETECTION BELOW 1500 feet by MPAs

[mm299m]

The developers REALLY need to fix this issue. It should NOT be possible for a SEAWOLF at 1556 feet depth, 5 knots, ultraquiet to be DIRECT hit by depth charges from an MPA repeatedly.

I have had this occur in ALL the campaigns using different subs, so I know it is not tied to just one particular sub.

The latest incident was in South China Sea, I was at 1556 feet, moving at 5 knots, rigged for ultra quiet, and the following happened: MPA attacked me 5 times with depth charges, EVERY SINGLE SALVO came within 50 - 100 feet of my Seawolf. The ambient noise was at 99.

MAD will not work outside of 400 feet accurately. Further, shouldn't MPA drop sonobuoys before any attacks occur? The last 5 or 6 times I have been attacked by MPA, they drop the depthcharges until they are empty, then just keep flying over dropping sonobuoys. This does not make sense. In several instances, MPA's have NOT, repeat NOT dropped any torpedoes.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues re: MPA attacks?

[Racer D]

Not at this depth no, but I was watching the tactical map to guide my 6 wired torpedoes, 12 KYD from the nearest enemy ship, who had no idea what was coming to them. My depth was about 550 feet.

Then suddenly I hear damage reports coming in, which must have been from depth charges by plane.

[Killerfish Games]

Interesting.

What was the MPA?
Had the MPA dropped any sonobuoys? (remember passive ones don't show on the map)
Were any surface vessels in contact or recently in contact with your sub?
Had you made any course corrections recently?

[xluoh]

İlk olarak Killerfish Games tarafından gönderildi:

Interesting.

What was the MPA?
Had the MPA dropped any sonobuoys? (remember passive ones don't show on the map)
Were any surface vessels in contact or recently in contact with your sub?
Had you made any course corrections recently?

I think they mean Marine Patrol Aircraft (a.k.a MPA) like Tu-95 and IL-38. It indeed is the most chanllenging existence in this game. From this point, I appreciate the efforts put by KFG, which makes the game playable and enjoyable.

However, I do feel that the performance of MPA is "oddly smart" in two aspects:

(1) The contact MPAs established seems lasting forever. In the game, once an aircraft detects my sub, it will make constant attacks without dropping any more sonobuoys, no matter how deep I hide, how often I change my course and how silent I run. Even its ammo are empty, it will then start dropping sonobuoys exactly on my tail. In addition. it seems that the sonobuoys dropped by MPA immune from surface layer, only long distance and/or strong ocean background noise (over 100 dB) affact their function of performance.

(2) The depth charges dropped by MPA are too accurate. MPAs are ALWAYS able to drop depth charges directly above my head and these depth charges will ALWAYS explode at the same depth as I am, which is much more accurrate than the torpedos they dropped (in many circumstances, the torpedos are either dropped far away from me, or set to search in wrong depth). Therefore, it makes the "run silent, run deep" tactic (a common understanding to submarine) completely useless in defending myself during MPA attacks. The only thing I can do at such situation is running out as fast as I can and maneuvering hard.

[Racer D]

İlk olarak xluoh tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Killerfish Games tarafından gönderildi:

Interesting.

What was the MPA?
Had the MPA dropped any sonobuoys? (remember passive ones don't show on the map)
Were any surface vessels in contact or recently in contact with your sub?
Had you made any course corrections recently?

I think they mean Marine Patrol Aircraft (a.k.a MPA) like Tu-95 and IL-38.

Did you just explain the Devs (KFG) what MPA stands for? :lol:

Anyway good info for the rest, I agree with your statements

[rokvam]

Speaking as a submariner I can join in on the chorus line here and state that MPA's do seem a bit over powered atm...

But then again, I find that this might be nessecary to keep the game from becoming too easy... It's a difficult balance this...

They seem to be at their worst (or best, based on perspective ) when they find you after you have launched missiles.

If possible, always clear datum immediately after doing this. Even cavitating for a shorter period of time is better than loitering after a missile launch.

But I do understand the frustration the accurate depth charge attacks can cause. Sometimes it feels like they have the eye of god!

Some advice that can remedy their accuracy some, is making sure you avoid broadsiding any active sonar bouys in your vicinity... I have experienced that this cause the MPA accuracy to drop some.

I should point out that I don't know if this is modelled in the game, but it's basic submarine evasion 101... You want to present as small a possible portion of your hull in the active sonar direction...

Also, slow can be deadly when an MPA is prowling over head... Try moving at 10 to 15 kts if this is possible without cavitating...

Lastly... Don't maintain one course all the time... Deviate a little from time to time, but be carful with nearby active bouys...

-Dolphin 38

[boris.glevrk]

I thought the only solid way to evade depth charges is to run fast and dive deep.
These aircrafts are excellent in tracking you down, but they can't even predict your motion and correct the depth charges accordingly. From my experience at >500 feet, you only need to go at 30 knots straight forward, and all depth charges will explode behind you due to the aircrafts' failure to lead their target.

I would like to suggest giving aircrafts a fuel parameter though. There was one time in an older version where I was damaged and thus cannot go deep, and I had a Kamov without ammo constantly following me until I reached the edge of the map, which would take 10 hours without time compression, i.e. way beyond Kamov's endurance IRL.

[Racer D]

İlk olarak rokvam tarafından gönderildi:

They seem to be at their worst (or best, based on perspective ) when they find you after you have launched missiles.

If possible, always clear datum immediately after doing this. Even cavitating for a shorter period of time is better than loitering after a missile launch.

Well on that note - I had several occasions where the aircraft just fly away after I launch a missile. In fact I launched missiles yesterday just to provoke them, but I guess they didn't feel like it.

Here is an example with a helo:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1376332638

And here the helo flies away from my position after retracting its dipping sonar, with the launch plumes still clearly visible.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1376749616

And here a Bear doesn't respond to my launch at all.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1376748439

They just don't care...

[rokvam]

Wish this would be the case sometimes for me as well...

They always seem to be at the top of their game with me...

So, MPA should maybe be scrutinised for possible weird and urealistic behavior then...

-Dolphin 38

[Cpl. Hicks]

I have noticed this to. In fact i fear depth charges from planes more then torpedoes at this point.

I hid above a wreck at 1520 feet and launched a MOSS hoping the Bear would go after it and stop hounding me. A minute later i hear the engine sound above and reports of flooding. So not only was the Bear able to detect me, but also tell me apart from the MOSS despite me hiding above a wreck. I have no idea how that is possible.

Edit: Another thing that buggs me is MPAs appearing where they realistically shouldn't. Like a Y-8 appearing right off the coast of Manila. Guess the Air Force dropped the ball again. sigh

[Justicier10-7]

I have seen uncanny detections from aircraft, and pure stupidity...

Seems balanced to me

But honestly, some detections by aircraft definitely make me wonder what I did to tip them off.

[mm299m]

İlk olarak Killerfish Games tarafından gönderildi:

Interesting.

What was the MPA?
Had the MPA dropped any sonobuoys? (remember passive ones don't show on the map)
Were any surface vessels in contact or recently in contact with your sub?
Had you made any course corrections recently?

The MPA in the example at 1556 feet depth was a 4 engined turboprop aircraft - I don't know it's name or designation.

Re: Sonobuoys - I started mission at 5 knots, immediately rigged for ultraquiet.

Re: Surface Vessels - there were no surface vessels within 12KYd of my seawolf

Re: course corrections were made using 5 degree rudder at 5 knots in 99Db Environment.

Nevertheless, all above points disregarded, it should not be possible for an aircraft to accurately target your submarine to within 100 feet or less in a noisy environment at depth of 1556 feet.

I have had occasions at lesser depths, though still greater than 400 ft depth, using LA or Narwhal where circumstances were similar, and was directly struck by MPA depth charges 2 or more times in a row.

I understand that MPA could be receiving data re my position from other sources, but really, this accuracy level on MPA's part seems beyond possibility. If this were possible in real-life, no submarines would exist, because they would be just as much a target as a surface ship.

[Cpl. Hicks]

İlk olarak mm299m tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Killerfish Games tarafından gönderildi:

Interesting.

What was the MPA?
Had the MPA dropped any sonobuoys? (remember passive ones don't show on the map)
Were any surface vessels in contact or recently in contact with your sub?
Had you made any course corrections recently?

The MPA in the example at 1556 feet depth was a 4 engined turboprop aircraft - I don't know it's name or designation.

Re: Sonobuoys - I started mission at 5 knots, immediately rigged for ultraquiet.

Re: Surface Vessels - there were no surface vessels within 12KYd of my seawolf

Re: course corrections were made using 5 degree rudder at 5 knots in 99Db Environment.

Nevertheless, all above points disregarded, it should not be possible for an aircraft to accurately target your submarine to within 100 feet or less in a noisy environment at depth of 1556 feet.

I have had occasions at lesser depths, though still greater than 400 ft depth, using LA or Narwhal where circumstances were similar, and was directly struck by MPA depth charges 2 or more times in a row.

I understand that MPA could be receiving data re my position from other sources, but really, this accuracy level on MPA's part seems beyond possibility. If this were possible in real-life, no submarines would exist, because they would be just as much a target as a surface ship.

If it was a four engine turboprop it was probably a Tu-142.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c8/b7/ff/c8b7ff9f94b71f3ce77bf12d2327afe2.jpg

Edit: Never mind, i just realized they were all four engine turboprops. So it doesn't really tell us anything.

[Kosmo-not]

I've found that even if I strip away all its sonobouys and set MAD detection range to zero, the fixed-wing aircraft are still able to track me after finding me. This is without any enemy vessels that have sonar.

As long as we're on the topic of aircraft, the helicopters could use a buff. It's too easy to get away from them. Above about 80ft, they have an exact fix on you if they've already made contact. When you go below 80ft, it's like "Oh no, where did he go?" even if you're cavitating.