Is a MOSS still viable?

[Safetypin]

I still have to test this for myself but with the improved AI (where they fire towards your position) is a MOSS still a viable tactic?

Although a MOSS is a swim-out and therefore doesn't create a transient noise, it starts simulating a submarine as soon as it's fired. If the enemy didn't hear you and all of a sudden hear the MOSS, they might fire on the bearing of the MOSS sonar return as it acts somewhat as a transient. No noise and all of a sudden there is a noise. If AI fires a spread, then deploying a MOSS can have the adverse effect. It will probably still work with heli's and surface ships since they're not continuesly listening or not within detection range yet but with submarines, launching a MOSS may give your position away.

If the MOSS had an enabling point, things would be different. Because you create time to be somewhere else when the MOSS starts simulating a submarine. And if it had a wire, they would become a more convincing decoy since you can order it to change course in order to evade incoming weapons. That would make a far more convincing target then a dumbfire straightrunning decoy the MOSS is now.

What do you think? Still viable or not so much?

[CyraNova]

Because. They already hear your sub first time. and you shot again another MOSS they will hear 2 subs appear on their sonar. So beliving the first 1 is priority rather than the second sub as decoy.

[Safetypin]

Originally posted by CyraNova:

They already hear your sub first time.

Not necessarily. If I'm running ultra quiet at 5 knots and the sonar comp says I'm at negative values on passive and towed, the enemy doesn't hear me. When I launch a MOSS that simulates a submarine traveling at 20 knots, it's going to make a lot more noise than I was doing. After launching the MOSS, the enemy could have positive numbers over 10 on passive and towed (on the MOSS, not on me) and when they fire in the direction of the MOSS, the torpedoes are coming in my direction since I haven't cleared the area yet. And I don't want to speed up because then I'll make more noise and may be heard by the enemy.

Originally posted by CyraNova:

So beliving the first 1 is priority rather than the second sub as decoy.

If they already heard me before I launch the MOSS, yes. If I were the enemy, I would launch at both contacts, just to be sure.

But the trick of the MOSS, at least in my opinion, is to launch it before you are detected. Otherwise it's not realy going to work. OK, you create an extra target but unless you create more than 8 targets at once, the enemy could fire against every target.

Torpedoes aren't cheap but an enemy sub sunk is worth a whole lot more than a couple of torps.

[Vexi.id]

Yes, as you can see. I fired off a few Mk48's, followed by a MOSS on the same course, went deep & south. The Enemy launched their attack on my decoy.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1230491745

[boris.glevrk]

Even if the subs no longer shoot at MOSS, it doesn't stop their torps from stupidly following them. I don't think the Soviets in this game have wired torpedoes(or they do in real life, but those AIs can't make use of it in the game), do they?

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

I my experience the enemy torpedos are fired soon after the MOSS launch and do head toward your sub and the MOSS but when they go actve they tend to go for the MOSS. Sometimes they go for me but I often fire a MOSS when I am about ot be detected so a 50% chance of it going for me is better than a 100% chance of it going for me.

You can also lead a torp that is locked onto you toward a MOSS and then drop a bubble maker or nuckle and try to throw it off you onto the MOSS. Works sometimes.

Diffinately viable. I tend to double the amount of MOSS torps in my loadout .

[Safetypin]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Even if the subs no longer shoot at MOSS, it doesn't stop their torps from stupidly following them. I don't think the Soviets in this game have wired torpedoes(or they do in real life, but those AIs can't make use of it in the game), do they?

The Russians do have wire guided torpedoes (TEST71 and USET80) and they do steer them actively as long as they know where you are. So keep quiet when evading torps from Sierra's, Victor IIIs, Typhoons, Delta's and some diesel boats like Kilo (don't know them by heart, press M in game to check),

They don't seem to steer them directly into you (overriding counter measure homing and changing depth rapidly to hit you).

[kilen]

Perso, i take always between 3 & 8 (6 to 8 for russian subs playable with big stores), and have always 1 or2 in tubes.

In own xps, they are much more usefull than decoys, depending from where torps come at u, etc.

And with russian subs mod, some can be guided with wires,wich changes a lot to control ur own safety.

So, yeah, for me, have some is necessary.
And with some pratice & a bit of luck, u can escape crazy situations with 1or2 moss in restricted cube, facing 4or5 torps max... i already did where i should have bet 95% against me ! Lol
But vanilla changes quite a lot, i used less there (less xp of the game too, at that time, it counts i assume), wires guided & rework on store with that mod since made them much more efficient as defensive assets (y).
But depends of your gameplay too, on videos u can find on utube, after checked, i realized there was quite a lot of different gameplays from different players... so, up to u to see first, still always possible to play without but its not advised imo :)
++

[Sanngetall]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Even if the subs no longer shoot at MOSS, it doesn't stop their torps from stupidly following them. I don't think the Soviets in this game have wired torpedoes(or they do in real life, but those AIs can't make use of it in the game), do they?

They do use wire. They change the course of their torps to match your bearing even if you are fishtailing or going deep or shallow. But only before they go active and if they are not in trouble (AKA, get locked by a mk48).

[Snork]

Use MOSS to pull away tracking on torps that have already been fired at you.

It's still true that if it's between you and them it does a fine job drawing fire away.

[Sanngetall]

It's fun and difficult to use MOSS to returnfire their own torps, but when it works, it's glorious !

[splinter48708]

Originally posted by Marsarah:

It's fun and difficult to use MOSS to returnfire their own torps, but when it works, it's glorious !

HAHA! There's been a couple of times I would fire a MOSS down the bearing of an attacking torpedo, drop a noise maker and dive out of the toepedo's projected listening cone under flank speed, then, if the timing was right, do a quick quiet and watch the enemy torpedo lock onto the decoy and either destroy the decoy *OR* the enemy torpedo causes an accidential blue on blue sinking.

[Vanguard(Aqua)]

Originally posted by splinter48708:

Originally posted by Marsarah:

It's fun and difficult to use MOSS to returnfire their own torps, but when it works, it's glorious !

HAHA! There's been a couple of times I would fire a MOSS down the bearing of an attacking torpedo, drop a noise maker and dive out of the toepedo's projected listening cone under flank speed, then, if the timing was right, do a quick quiet and watch the enemy torpedo lock onto the decoy and either destroy the decoy *OR* the enemy torpedo causes an accidential red on red sinking.

fixed that for ya :)

[Sanngetall]

BTW, MOSS behavior is strange. When I launch one, it stays at the same depth as the launch. But when it reaches its activation point, it dives. Is this a bug or something I missed ?

[Killerfish Games]

Originally posted by Marsarah:

BTW, MOSS behavior is strange. When I launch one, it stays at the same depth as the launch. But when it reaches its activation point, it dives. Is this a bug or something I missed ?

Bug, fixed in 1.09c.

[Sanngetall]

Perfect, red on red torps is on again.