Best Subs to use

[nathan]

What do you think is the best sub to use in the main game?

Reasn why is that I need more speed but I don't want to be to easy to find if you all know what I mean?

[theCarthaginian]

Originally posted by nathan:

What do you think is the best sub to use in the main game?

Reasn why is that I need more speed but I don't want to be to easy to find if you all know what I mean?

OK, Nathan... here's the deal.
QUIET and FAST are competing characteristics in a submarine.
You will never be quiet AND fast - ever. The faster you go, the louder you are going to get. Your screw (propeller) turns faster, the reduction gearing whines louder, the reactor pumps run harder, etc. Speed makes your noise level go up.
Now, in general, the newer the submarine, the less the noise level goes up for a given speed increase. This means that a Los Angeles class is going to generally be quieter than a Sturgeon, a Sturgeon is generally quieter than a Permit, and a Permit is generally quieter than a Skipjack. The exception is that the Narwal-class (a Sturgeon hull with some machinery differences) is quieter at low speeds than the rest of the Sturgeons, and possibly even a little quieter than an early Los Angeles (like the ones in the game).

So, to answer your question, play the 1984 campaign in the newest boat you can... then work back if you do not find it challenging enough.

[japp_02]

Start with a sub that can go at 30+ knots so you learn torpedo evasion tactics. With a sub that only goes up to 25 knots it's a lot harder because you must start evasion tactics much sooner.

And for detection, you must watch the last 3 lines in the "Signature" tab. if the values are negative you remain undetected, if they get positive you are in danger, especially when you hear sonar pings. Reduce your sub aspect to present a little surface, that is: position your sub in the same line as the sonar pings. The quieter you go the better these numbers for you, also use layers if present.

Once you are detected, you no longer need to play a hiding game: use your active sonar to get an exact location of the enemy (or use your periscope) and fire your missiles or torpedos. After torpedo launches, go quiet again and change course. If you have used your missiles, the enemy will soon counter-attack so you must go away at max. speed for awhile and go quiet after.

Hope this helps,

[r4y30n]

Ha, there is nothing in common between a Sturgeon and Narwhal other than the weapons systems. The hull is a bigger diameter and longer to accomodate a completely different reactor and turbine arrangement, even the sail is a different profile.

In regards to the game, though, near as we can tell noise increases linearly with speed and by the same amount in all subs. Therefore a boat that's quieter at rest than another will always be quieter period.

I realize Narwhal could shut her coolant pumps off at lower speed to be super silent but there is no step in noise output modeled.

Also important is active return, sometimes it's more important than radiated noise, particularly in regard to surface ships that tend to have better active sets. In that regard, Skipjack and Permit have the smallest return of any of the boats.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

Skipjack!


Let me repeat that in case nobody heard.



SKIPJACK!

[Safetypin]

Originally posted by כיטרע פוקס:

Skipjack!


Let me repeat that in case nobody heard.



SKIPJACK!

I disagree. While the Skipjack is fun to play it's defenitely not the best and I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.
- It only keeps one wire at a time, so if you fire more than one torpedo, you have to aim the others very carefully or they'll miss.
- It's test depth is only 750 ft meaning that an undamaged boat can only dive to say 1000 ft. Permits and Sturgeons dive deeper.
- It's the oldest boat and therefore the loudest and most deaf boat you can play. Meaning you need to be very close to hear your enemy and they are very likely to hear you as well.

Start the 1984 campaign with a Narwhall, it is very quiet, keeps two wires at the same time and dives quite deep. It's for cautious captains. The LA class is more for aggressive captains. 4 wires, good speed, acceptable depth, good sonar and relatively quiet.

Only start an 1968 campaign if you're realy comfortable with the game mechanics. Due to the crappy torpedoes, the 1968 campaign can be quite frustrating and requires a totally different tactic than in a 1984 campaign.

[kilen]

Vanilla game: LA class is far better than any others.

Sturgeon in 1968.

With russian subs mod,
Quite a lot are excellent.

But globaly its:
-30kn minimum (except 212A, but its coz it has others assets like best torp of the game DM2A4, quietest sub of all nato side, and an incredible manoeuvrability for just a bit too slow: 23kn... but its an exception).
- 130db own noice max (Checkable in stats now), upon that u can be id by russians above 10kyd, below until 110db max for 212A, u can even stay undetected at 5kyd or less without it be exceptional.
- VLS system, such more efficient to reload & have better management of store.
- manoeuvrability is also very important, less than max speed, but its decisive to survive too.

Best subs for me in game are:
- 212A german littoral electric sub
- virginia 2017 (already beaten expert level full 1984 campaign within without any time have been sunk on +50followed combats & missions !)... but all subs above 1984 era are cheating also, its unbalanced with vs AI, mostly vs russian subs already late technologicaly, etc.

For others,
I trully love Sierra or Akula 1 classes.
And LA class evo2 for nato in 1984.

In 1968,
Churchill class is excellent, its the only one i succeed there to prevail in expert campaign without been killed or captured one time.

But others are pretty good:
Russian november68 vlass is quite good too.
And its always possible to be efficient in Victor1class also.
Real issue in 68 are those having obsolete torps, unable to be guided manually or none VLS... it changes everything between be the hunter alltime and try to send first salvo undetected then resign and flee next ! Lol
(except against cargo alone, there all torps can match in proper conditions, ofc)

Well, in practice, plenty are pretty good and efficient.
The real challenge comes on the long run and survive on 20 to 40 missions without being captured or sink in deep depth & die...
But on 2-3 following missions, plenty of SSN are great and some of SS are good enough too (y) :)

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

I never used more than 1 wire anyway. I just line up for the shot in such a way that I won't miss.

Skipjack does 33 knots.

Let me repeat that. 3-fishing-3 knots. You can outrun a torpedo on flank, why do you need to dive below 1000 ft anyway? I can dance with Skip in a bracket of 400 top to bottom and evade like crazy, drive the torps back into the enemies.

I've tried other boats, nothing beats Skipjack. I just can't imagine anything with less than six tubes and anything that goes slower than 30 knots. No thanks.

Besides it looks damn cool. All the other boats are generic cigar shape.

As a bonus - it's old. If it ain't broke - don't fix it.



As a beginner I started off on Elite w/ hardest settings and first completed the 1960's campaign (since it's chonologically sound) in a Skippy (my profile has sshots). Never looked back.

[Mannschaft]

Originally posted by kilen:

Vanilla game: LA class is far better than any others.

Sturgeon in 1968.

With russian subs mod,
Quite a lot are excellent.

But globaly its:
-30kn minimum (except 212A, but its coz it has others assets like best torp of the game DM2A4, quietest sub of all nato side, and an incredible manoeuvrability for just a bit too slow: 23kn... but its an exception).
- 130db own noice max (Checkable in stats now), upon that u can be id by russians above 10kyd, below until 110db max for 212A, u can even stay undetected at 5kyd or less without it be exceptional.
- VLS system, such more efficient to reload & have better management of store.
- manoeuvrability is also very important, less than max speed, but its decisive to survive too.

Best subs for me in game are:
- 212A german littoral electric sub
- virginia 2017 (already beaten expert level full 1984 campaign within without any time have been sunk on +50followed combats & missions !)... but all subs above 1984 era are cheating also, its unbalanced with vs AI, mostly vs russian subs already late technologicaly, etc.

For others,
I trully love Sierra or Akula 1 classes.
And LA class evo2 for nato in 1984.

In 1968,
Churchill class is excellent, its the only one i succeed there to prevail in expert campaign without been killed or captured one time.

But others are pretty good:
Russian november68 vlass is quite good too.
And its always possible to be efficient in Victor1class also.
Real issue in 68 are those having obsolete torps, unable to be guided manually or none VLS... it changes everything between be the hunter alltime and try to send first salvo undetected then resign and flee next ! Lol
(except against cargo alone, there all torps can match in proper conditions, ofc)

Well, in practice, plenty are pretty good and efficient.
The real challenge comes on the long run and survive on 20 to 40 missions without being captured or sink in deep depth & die...
But on 2-3 following missions, plenty of SSN are great and some of SS are good enough too (y) :)

Bro you're using a mod with cheat subs honestly. Dude asked what's best sub in game, not what's best sub in subs and more mod. You beat 1984 campaign with 2017 sub. Congrats. You want a cookie?

[CyraNova]

Los angeles class. and the new update will Seawolf.

[nathan]

Originally posted by CyraNova:

Los angeles class. and the new update will Seawolf.

when will the new update come?

[Gralzeim]

Kilen, you keep mentioning VLS when no playable subs in the vanilla game have VLS. I'd assume that the Los Angeles fleet III and Seawolf will have VLS (both are being added with the South China Sea campaign), but those are going to be for use in the campaign they come with, not the 1984 or 1968 campaigns.

[theCarthaginian]

Originally posted by Gralzeim:

Kilen, you keep mentioning VLS when no playable subs in the vanilla game have VLS. I'd assume that the Los Angeles fleet III and Seawolf will have VLS (both are being added with the South China Sea campaign), but those are going to be for use in the campaign they come with, not the 1984 or 1968 campaigns.

Kilen is using the Payable Subs mod by CaptainX3 and neglecting to differentiate the mod from the base game.

[kilen]

Originally posted by Mannschaft:

Originally posted by kilen:

Vanilla game: LA class is far better than any others.

Sturgeon in 1968.

With russian subs mod,
Quite a lot are excellent.

But globaly its:
-30kn minimum (except 212A, but its coz it has others assets like best torp of the game DM2A4, quietest sub of all nato side, and an incredible manoeuvrability for just a bit too slow: 23kn... but its an exception).
- 130db own noice max (Checkable in stats now), upon that u can be id by russians above 10kyd, below until 110db max for 212A, u can even stay undetected at 5kyd or less without it be exceptional.
- VLS system, such more efficient to reload & have better management of store.
- manoeuvrability is also very important, less than max speed, but its decisive to survive too.

Best subs for me in game are:
- 212A german littoral electric sub
- virginia 2017 (already beaten expert level full 1984 campaign within without any time have been sunk on +50followed combats & missions !)... but all subs above 1984 era are cheating also, its unbalanced with vs AI, mostly vs russian subs already late technologicaly, etc.

For others,
I trully love Sierra or Akula 1 classes.
And LA class evo2 for nato in 1984.

In 1968,
Churchill class is excellent, its the only one i succeed there to prevail in expert campaign without been killed or captured one time.

But others are pretty good:
Russian november68 vlass is quite good too.
And its always possible to be efficient in Victor1class also.
Real issue in 68 are those having obsolete torps, unable to be guided manually or none VLS... it changes everything between be the hunter alltime and try to send first salvo undetected then resign and flee next ! Lol
(except against cargo alone, there all torps can match in proper conditions, ofc)

Well, in practice, plenty are pretty good and efficient.
The real challenge comes on the long run and survive on 20 to 40 missions without being captured or sink in deep depth & die...
But on 2-3 following missions, plenty of SSN are great and some of SS are good enough too (y) :)

Bro you're using a mod with cheat subs honestly. Dude asked what's best sub in game, not what's best sub in subs and more mod. You beat 1984 campaign with 2017 sub.
Congrats. You want a cookie?

Ur answer says a lot about ur mindstate and how u interprete what people say, nothing to proove or defend buddy, i am a bit older for that, specialy concerning videogames lol...
(wich seems not so frequent on steam forums it seems...) o.O :/

Just tried to detail context of each ones and why.
And nope, no cheating with RussianSub mod except for some rare fancy models on all ~35playable subs, but it concerns maybe 10% of them, no more.
At the contrary balance between all particularities of all subs seems much more revelant with RussianSub mod !
After 250h on CW, last 70ones was far more immersive and balanced than all prrvious ones on vanilla, i swear u that !

And if u read next sentence, i also mention its somewhere cheating to use Virginia2017 class against russian subs.
But not coz the mod cheat about values !
only bcoz using a fictive improved version of virginia class made to reach ultimate perfs we could hope now, making a entire new class of SSGN to replace Virginia (etc)...
Compared with russian subs of 80's era.
Its like playing a tank sim in M1A2 and face panzer4 in front of u !
Thats not exactly the same kind of unbalance...

Thats the cheat, but this way to say "new subs from mods are obviously cheating" is absurd.

RussianSub solved lots of lacks from vanilla CW, and increase a lot the realism and the precision u can hope between all subs.
Plus increase also the global exhaustive comparison between all subs and what to wait from each ones or how to judge them better !

Of course, CW stay a compromise between arcade & sim, and mod cant change that.
But what u say is such a "préjugé" than it seems u dont have taken time to test it.

Since i started last version of RussianSubMod, i couldnt even imagine to go back playing vanilla such density & wealth of the game have changed with !
And no gamey or arcade sin with, at the contrary... :/ ^^

And last detail,
I did one time to try the 84 campaign with a Virginia2017 and slaughted everything in 50following missions without been sunk one time... soon as i've done (and u can check my older screenies, they proove what i say here), i immediatly imposed myself the rule for further tries to only use 80's or 60's era subs for all next times... and without any troll reactions necessary as u said here to do it !
So when i wrote this message here up, u can be sure i was far to feel proud or see Virginia2017 single trie i've done some weeks ago as an achievment... lol o.O
(But still far to be the only one sub success i've done similar perf in campaign though, and others was far less easy !)

All these subs must be mentioned, simply bcoz Vanilla CW is such poor compared with RussianSubs mod ! (I dont speak of all mods, its case by case judgment ofc, RussianSub is the one necessary imo and trully increasing such aspects of the game without break his coherence... some beside are true jokes or real cheating and unbalanced mods)

but imagine modern era subs playable by mods are waste and loose automaticly credibility is just ignorance and none-sens arguments !
Now lets try yourself to obviously accomplish 50 following missions without been sunk one time...
If u have already a good habit of the game, its not that hard, but it can maybe makes u evolve through less restrictive point of view about extended modded CW releases & troll's mindstate u have for next times...

That shouldnt be a bad think, mostly for u !

[kilen]

Originally posted by theCarthaginian:

Originally posted by Gralzeim:

Kilen, you keep mentioning VLS when no playable subs in the vanilla game have VLS. I'd assume that the Los Angeles fleet III and Seawolf will have VLS (both are being added with the South China Sea campaign), but those are going to be for use in the campaign they come with, not the 1984 or 1968 campaigns.

Kilen is using the Payable Subs mod by CaptainX3 and neglecting to differentiate the mod from the base game.

Boy,
TRY IT !
And comeback with fresh advice 2months later, then we will can start to talk... okay ? :/

I have played 250h on cw, sincerely overwhelm the game since long now, including most part on vanilla (+150h) and there is NO DOUBT then RussianSubs+RussianCampains is a necessary improvement of basic game !

I mention them bcoz i sincerely dont understand players still think its better to play vanilla.
Seriously ! o.O

But if dunno why and have an advice already, its like about debate concerning proper use of ballistic missiles during an high intensity warfare from 30years ago context then we had last week... u trully lack of imagination and openmind ! :(

Its a free tip, trully, try then comeback later... if u have a minimum of fair good sens, there u will maybe can understand why i mention these subs and why its such more dense and intresting to include them all by this mod than compare balance or obvious basic choices to take between limited 5 vanilla subs playable ! :/

[Mannschaft]

Originally posted by kilen:

Originally posted by Mannschaft:

Bro you're using a mod with cheat subs honestly. Dude asked what's best sub in game, not what's best sub in subs and more mod. You beat 1984 campaign with 2017 sub.
Congrats. You want a cookie?

Ur answer says a lot about ur mindstate and how u interprete what people say, nothing to proove or defend buddy, i am a bit older for that, specialy concerning videogames lol...
(wich seems not so frequent on steam forums it seems...) o.O :/

Just tried to detail context of each ones and why.
And nope, no cheating with RussianSub mod except for some rare fancy models on all ~35playable subs, but it concerns maybe 10% of them, no more.
At the contrary balance between all particularities of all subs seems much more revelant with RussianSub mod !
After 250h on CW, last 70ones was far more immersive and balanced than all prrvious ones on vanilla, i swear u that !

And if u read next sentence, i also mention its somewhere cheating to use Virginia2017 class against russian subs.
But not coz the mod cheat about values !
only bcoz using a fictive improved version of virginia class made to reach ultimate perfs we could hope now, making a entire new class of SSGN to replace Virginia (etc)...
Compared with russian subs of 80's era.
Its like playing a tank sim in M1A2 and face panzer4 in front of u !
Thats not exactly the same kind of unbalance...

Thats the cheat, but this way to say "new subs from mods are obviously cheating" is absurd.

RussianSub solved lots of lacks from vanilla CW, and increase a lot the realism and the precision u can hope between all subs.
Plus increase also the global exhaustive comparison between all subs and what to wait from each ones or how to judge them better !

Of course, CW stay a compromise between arcade & sim, and mod cant change that.
But what u say is such a "préjugé" than it seems u dont have taken time to test it.

Since i started last version of RussianSubMod, i couldnt even imagine to go back playing vanilla such density & wealth of the game have changed with !
And no gamey or arcade sin with, at the contrary... :/ ^^

And last detail,
I did one time to try the 84 campaign with a Virginia2017 and slaughted everything in 50following missions without been sunk one time... soon as i've done (and u can check my older screenies, they proove what i say here), i immediatly imposed myself the rule for further tries to only use 80's or 60's era subs for all next times... and without any troll reactions necessary as u said here to do it !
So when i wrote this message here up, u can be sure i was far to feel proud or see Virginia2017 single trie i've done some weeks ago as an achievment... lol o.O
(But still far to be the only one sub success i've done similar perf in campaign though, and others was far less easy !)

All these subs must be mentioned, simply bcoz Vanilla CW is such poor compared with RussianSubs mod ! (I dont speak of all mods, its case by case judgment ofc, RussianSub is the one necessary imo and trully increasing such aspects of the game without break his coherence... some beside are true jokes or real cheating and unbalanced mods)

but imagine modern era subs playable by mods are waste and loose automaticly credibility is just ignorance and none-sens arguments !
Now lets try yourself to obviously accomplish 50 following missions without been sunk one time...
If u have already a good habit of the game, its not that hard, but it can maybe makes u evolve through less restrictive point of view about extended modded CW releases & troll's mindstate u have for next times...

That shouldnt be a bad think, mostly for u !

Dude, are you dense?

Go re-read what the OP asked. I'll repost it here for your convenience.

"nathan has Cold Waters Dec 9 @ 1:45am
Best Subs to use
What do you think is the best sub to use in the main game?"

What do you think is the best sub to use in the MAIN GAME. He didn't ask what is the best sub to use in the subs and more mod. Your long winded posts that I don't even read 1/4 of are boring, overly defensive, and childish. Get over it. You're posting off topic crap and frankly the mod doesn't even work anymore with the new patch so your information is not only off topic spam but completely irrelevant.

Go away.